I COMPLETELY support Snowden

[Ptarmigan]

I COMPLETELY support Snowden
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3204050

Bonobo (21,253 posts)

I COMPLETELY support Snowden. [View all]
 Yes, I have tremendous respect for his courage and conviction.

Yes, I think he is brave. Yes, I think he is honorable.

No, I do not think he lied intentionally in any way. No, I do not think he did what he did for himself. This was no way to try to improve one's life. He took a tremendous risk and is paying for it. But WHY did he take the risk? Do you REALLY believe it was for fame? For riches? I think that is ridiculous on the face of it to believe such a thing. Only a fool would choose such a path filled with danger and pain -and he is no fool. So what is he?

His claim that there was "direct" access was based on his best information such as the Powerpoint file -and even if the access is not "direct", it is overwhelmingly pervasive and with little access with little real oversight or obstacles. Those that try to make a big deal about this one word being "debunked" are splitting inconsequential hairs.

After watching his videos, I have even greater respect for him. He sacrificed his entire life and took a blind leap off a cliff in order to remain true to the same values that led him to enlist in the army and the government. But rather than allow his values to be subverted, he remained true to them and did the RIGHT THING.

Just like we teach our children, he spoke up when he saw something wrong being done. I am grateful to him for his sacrifice and thankful that there are people like him. Imagine if there were only apologists and those ready to roll over when they became aware of these crimes against the citizens of the US and the world?

He is a warrior for human rights. He is a man who sees the lie behind nationalism because he has peered into the shadows behind the security state.

Yup, I'll say it. He embodies all the qualities I find honorable. He is a hero.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men should do nothing.”

 -Edmund Burke

Of course not everyone at DU supports him.

Recursion (27,667 posts)
5. I thought this wasn't about him?

I find his motives pretty opaque, personally.

Recursion (27,667 posts)
14. I rate my confidence at about 85% that "Edward Snowden" is a real person

and that the person in the video and the acrobatic-dancing girlfriend are not actors.

Cali_Democrat (15,697 posts)
22. "But that doesn't mean I don't have an opinion of him."


Last edited Mon Jul 8, 2013, 10:01 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
Cool.

Others have an opinion of him as well and it might differ from yours. Shocking, I know.

It's just interesting how people critical of him get shouted down by people screaming "IT'S NOT ABOUT SNOWDEN!"

But an OP like this is all good.

I sense a double standard.

Yep.

gholtron (315 posts)
162. The problem with Snowden is

His inconsistence words and then actions. For example. In the video he made Before he left Hong Kong he said the following.

“I don’t want to live in a world where everything that I say, everything I do, everyone I talk to, every expression of creativity or love or friendship is recorded.”

He then tried to apply for asylum in the very countries that continually do that. To give you an example, he applied for asylum in Russia, and China. Are you going to tell me that they don't spy on their people? Well you might argue that there is no evidence of that and that's fair. But he also applied for asylum in Germany in which he said that the N.S.A is spying on Germany. The Germans turned him down for his request for asylum. Then he released the following.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/nsa-in-bed-with-german-intelligence-says-us-whistleblower-edward-snowden--and-gchq-operates-a-full-take-data-monitoring-system-8693793.html

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/edward-snowden-accuses-germany-of-aiding-nsa-in-spying-efforts-a-909847.html

Also from the video interview he said the following.


“I think the government’s going to say I’ve committed grave crimes and violated the espionage act and aided our enemies in making us aware of these systems.”

Well, what do you call it when you take or more appropriately Steal government computers with Top Secret Classified information on it and is was capable of connecting with classified government servers and flee to a Communist Country and have conversations with that government's official?

But here's the thing that bothers me the most about him. He said that the did this because HE determined that the people should decide on whether collection of records is appropriate? He didn't actually say that the NSA was breaking the law at least I didn't hear it. In fact, the documents that he took also contained Rules and Procedures in which the NSA has to follow to obtain a FISA warrant to collect such public data which is meta data. In other words the rules and procedures were written to PROTECT the privacy and the 4th Amendments of each American. He did NOT show any evidence that any laws were broken. He was just opposed of having meta data collected. The NSA is an intelligent agency. Like many other country, they have to analyze information. They are charged to keeping us safe. We may not like the methods but there isn't any proof that any laws were broken. You had oversight from the intelligence committee of Congress. You have the courts involved in issuing warrants. The the collection of data was meta data which is NOT a violation of the 4th amendment because we don't own the meta data. He knows that or should know that if he is as intelligent as everyone makes him out to be. Who knows what kind of top secret information he took and what the Russians and Chinese know? All this just because he didn't like it.

two other quotes .

from the video:
“I joined the intelligence community when I was very young…and I believed in the nobility of our intentions to free oppressed people overseas.”

from his interview with the South China Morning Post:
Edward Snowden, the former government contractor who leaked information on the National Security Agency's surveillance programs, says he sought the job with Booz Allen Hamilton to gather evidence on the agency's data collection networks.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/24/edward-snowden-booz-allen-hamilton_n_3491203.html

Again whistleblowers show evidence of law breaking and not showing the world what YOU don't like.

gholtron (315 posts)
223. My morality may be different from yours

We just can't pick and choose to violate the law just because I or you decided that the law is immoral. That's a recipe for anarchy. If you don't like the law the we elect representatives to change the law. Secondly, there is no proof that the government is listening. Snowden didn't say the NSA was listening to your calls and reading your emails. You know let's just drop it. If you think what Snowden did was noble then so be it. I think he has done great harm to this country and is a traitor to this country.

You DUmmies pick and choose laws to enforce.

CakeGrrl (9,513 posts)
25. Can you imagine the

vitriol that would have been directed at the OP if this post had read "I COMPLETELY support President Obama" with the emphasis intact?

That's rhetorical. I can grab examples without hardly tryin'.

I can see Edward Snowden and George Zimmerman Trial causing a schism and meltdown at DU.

[Skul]

That's a pretty good fire going on over there.
Seemed to devolve into a "I'm more moral than you", slap-fest. 
Love it.

[jukin]

I'm not going to read the drivel from the DUches but I support Snowden too.

Yeah there may have been some loss of national security but the loss of personal freedom he exposed more than made up for that. Sad part is after 40 years of leftists running the education system most do not care that a totalitarian state knows everything they do and WILL use it against them.

BS me if you will but I'm with Ben Franklin on this one and far more concerned with our oppressive government than the islamic terrorists.

[BlueStateSaint]

I'm not going to read the drivel from the DUches but I support Snowden too.

Yeah there may have been some loss of national security but the loss of personal freedom he exposed more than made up for that. Sad part is after 40 years of leftists running the education system most do not care that a totalitarian state knows everything they do and WILL use it against them.

BS me if you will but I'm with Ben Franklin on this one and far more concerned with our oppressive government than the islamic terrorists.

So am I, jukin.  Dangerous freedom is worth more than calm tyranny.

[Zathras]

Gee, what a surprise....a hater of America supporting a traitor.

[DumbAss Tanker]

I have mixed feelings about him, but I do think the outrage over him "Not returning to face the charges" is laughable.  Nobody in their right mind would willingly go head-to-head with the limitless resources the AG would bring to bear hammering him, after embarrassing the sitting Administration like he did.

[DefiantSix]

Bonobo (21,253 posts)

I COMPLETELY support Snowden. [View all]
 Yes, I have tremendous respect for his courage and conviction.

Yes, I think he is brave. Yes, I think he is honorable. blah blah blah [insert long winded diatribe here]...

Bullshit monkey boy.

You're a DUmbass, which means - among other things - you're a coward and a quisling. You think bravery is an attention-whoring peter-puffer "coming out" of the damned closet. Just like me, you likely have never been asked to stand up for a single thing in your entire miserable life; unlike me, when the question finally comes around to your door, your answer will likely be, "Dave's not here".

If Snowden had been your co-worker, and you'd seen everything that he had, where he decided that the American people needed to know what their government was doing, I'd bet the mortgage that you'd have been in your supervisor's office, narking him out so damned fast there'd have been a sonic boom coming along behind you, you sniveling turd.