Author Topic: Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla. (right . . . . )  (Read 9361 times)

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Offline Wretched Excess

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this is crack for electoral strategy junkies. :-)

a couple of thoughts;  if he loses ohio and florida, I think that would mean that enough white women and blue
color workers have abandoned him that virginia and colorado become pretty hard to win.  and I have no idea
why georgia keeps coming up in the discussion of "red states that could be flipped";  GWB won GA with nearly
60% of the freaking vote in 2004.

having said that, he won the nomination with an unorthodox  strategy of basically losing (running close) in the big
states whi8le winning a bunch of caucus states by a huge margin, so whatever he comes up with for the general election
should be taken seriously.

Quote
Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla.

FLINT, Mich. (AP) — Barack Obama's campaign envisions a path to the presidency that could include Virginia, Georgia and several Rocky Mountain states, but not necessarily the pair of battlegrounds that decided the last two elections — Florida and Ohio.

In a private pitch late last week to donors and former supporters of Hillary Rodham Clinton, Obama campaign manager David Plouffe outlined several alternatives to reaching the 270 electoral votes needed to win the White House that runs counter to the conventional wisdom of recent elections.

At a fundraiser held at a Washington brewery Friday, Plouffe told a largely young crowd that the electoral map would be fundamentally different from the one in 2004. Wins in Ohio and Florida would guarantee Obama the presidency if he holds onto the states won by Democrat John Kerry, Plouffe said, but those two battlegrounds aren't required for victory.
Florida, which has 27 electoral votes this year, gave the presidency to George W. Bush in the disputed election of 2000. Ohio, with its 20 electoral votes, ensured Bush of re-election in 2004 in his race against Kerry. Neither state was hospitable to Obama this year. Clinton handily won in Ohio and she prevailed in Florida although the national party had punished the state and the candidates didn't campaign there.

The presumed Democratic nominee's electoral math counts on holding onto the states Kerry won, among them Michigan (17 electoral votes), where Obama campaigns on Monday and Tuesday. Plouffe said most of the Kerry states should be reliable for Obama, but three currently look relatively competitive with Republican rival John McCain — Pennsylvania, Michigan and particularly New Hampshire.

Asked about his remarks, Plouffe said Ohio and Florida start out very competitive — but he stressed that they are not tougher than other swing states and said Obama will play "extremely hard" for both. But he said the strategy is not reliant on one or two states.

"You have a lot of ways to get to 270," Plouffe said. "Our goal is not to be reliant on one state on November 4th."

Plouffe has been pitching such a new approach to the electoral map in calls and meetings, according to several people who discussed the conversations on the condition of anonymity because they were meant to be private. Plouffe confirmed the descriptions in the interview.

Plouffe and his aides are weighing where to contest, and where chances are too slim to marshal a large effort. A win in Virginia (13 electoral votes) or Georgia (15 votes) could give Obama a shot if he, like Kerry, loses Ohio or Florida.

Plouffe also has been touting Obama's appeal in once Republican-leaning states where Democrats have made gains in recent gubernatorial and congressional races, such as Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, Montana, Alaska and North Dakota.\

Obama's campaign has spent heavily on time and money in Virginia, where a Democratic presidential candidate hasn't won since 1964. In recent elections, however, high-profile Republicans have lost there. And in a sign of how serious Obama is taking the state, Plouffe dispatched to Virginia many aides who helped Obama stage his upset win in the Iowa caucuses Jan. 3.

The key, Plouffe told supporters, will be to register new black voters and new young voters in Virginia.

Much More

Offline Jim

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Re: Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla. (right . . . . )
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2008, 04:02:00 PM »

having said that, he won the nomination with an unorthodox  strategy of basically losing (running close) in the big
states whi8le winning a bunch of caucus states by a huge margin, so whatever he comes up with for the general election
should be taken seriously.

Are you aware that heavily democrat voting districts are awarded MORE delegates in the dem primaries ?
Which districts are among the heaviest democrat, to the tune of 90% or so ?
Guess which districts BHO targeted ?



Quote
Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla.

Obama's campaign has spent heavily on time and money in Virginia, where a Democratic presidential candidate hasn't won since 1964. In recent elections, however, high-profile Republicans have lost there. And in a sign of how serious Obama is taking the state, Plouffe dispatched to Virginia many aides who helped Obama stage his upset win in the Iowa caucuses Jan. 3.

The key, Plouffe told supporters, will be to register new black voters and new young voters in Virginia.



Virginians vote very differerently in the presidential than in state.  We frequently go dem at gov.  G.Allen blew it by losing focus to a possible white house look and assuming he had the senate in the bag.  Uncharacteristically stupid move on his part.

That being said, NVa and Tidewater leave a heavy dem footprint.  But I still think BHO has problems here.
My fellow Americans, there is nothing audacious about hope. Hope is what makes people buy lottery tickets instead of paying the bills. Hope is for the old gals feeding the slots in Atlantic City. It destroys the inner-city kid who quits school because he hopes he'll be a world-famous recording artist.

What's the difference between Sarah Palin and Barack Obama?

One is a well turned-out, good-looking, and let's be honest, pretty sexy piece of eye-candy.

The other kills her own food.

Offline Wretched Excess

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Re: Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla. (right . . . . )
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2008, 04:04:57 PM »

having said that, he won the nomination with an unorthodox  strategy of basically losing (running close) in the big
states whi8le winning a bunch of caucus states by a huge margin, so whatever he comes up with for the general election
should be taken seriously.

Are you aware that heavily democrat voting districts are awarded MORE delegates in the dem primaries ?
Which districts are among the heaviest democrat, to the tune of 90% or so ?
Guess which districts BHO targeted ?

yep.  they are weighted, frequently by percentage of dem vote that turned out in the last general.  that heavily benefits urban districts that just so happen to be largely african american.

Offline Jim

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Re: Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla. (right . . . . )
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2008, 06:49:34 PM »

having said that, he won the nomination with an unorthodox  strategy of basically losing (running close) in the big
states whi8le winning a bunch of caucus states by a huge margin, so whatever he comes up with for the general election
should be taken seriously.

Are you aware that heavily democrat voting districts are awarded MORE delegates in the dem primaries ?
Which districts are among the heaviest democrat, to the tune of 90% or so ?
Guess which districts BHO targeted ?

yep.  they are weighted, frequently by percentage of dem vote that turned out in the last general.  that heavily benefits urban districts that just so happen to be largely african american.




bingo

and this race of his has nothing to do with race....  right....
My fellow Americans, there is nothing audacious about hope. Hope is what makes people buy lottery tickets instead of paying the bills. Hope is for the old gals feeding the slots in Atlantic City. It destroys the inner-city kid who quits school because he hopes he'll be a world-famous recording artist.

What's the difference between Sarah Palin and Barack Obama?

One is a well turned-out, good-looking, and let's be honest, pretty sexy piece of eye-candy.

The other kills her own food.

Offline Tess Anderson

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Re: Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla. (right . . . . )
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2008, 09:04:01 PM »
When will MSM outlets like ABC News ever stop reporting Barack Hussein Obama press releases as "news"?

All this tells me is that he's in trouble in both states, even with the internal polling data. There's no way in hell he could ever win GA but lose both FL and OH. Trashy analysis.

Offline Mr Mannn

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Re: Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla. (right . . . . )
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2008, 10:04:06 PM »
If they have to give up both these states, then they are beginning to see they cannot win.

Offline Jim

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Re: Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla. (right . . . . )
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2008, 10:04:36 PM »
When will MSM outlets like ABC News ever stop reporting Barack Hussein Obama press releases as "news"?

All this tells me is that he's in trouble in both states, even with the internal polling data. There's no way in hell he could ever win GA but lose both FL and OH. Trashy analysis.


I don't think he'll win any of those three
My fellow Americans, there is nothing audacious about hope. Hope is what makes people buy lottery tickets instead of paying the bills. Hope is for the old gals feeding the slots in Atlantic City. It destroys the inner-city kid who quits school because he hopes he'll be a world-famous recording artist.

What's the difference between Sarah Palin and Barack Obama?

One is a well turned-out, good-looking, and let's be honest, pretty sexy piece of eye-candy.

The other kills her own food.

Offline Rebel

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Re: Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla. (right . . . . )
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2008, 10:13:55 PM »
There is no way in HELL that Socialist will win Georgia.
NAMBLA is a left-wing organization.

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There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site

Offline Lord Undies

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Re: Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla. (right . . . . )
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2008, 10:18:35 PM »
The media is way overplaying their Magic Negro hand.  I can see how people "sitting on the fence" will be so sick of Hussein Obama by the end of the summer that Dan Rather will have to kneecap McCain to keep McCain from running away with 46 states.

Obamamania is about to get to the saturation point.  The reaction to Obama will soon mirror the reaction to the "Miracle Ear" commercial that runs every six minutes during a late night rerun of "Law & Order".  

Offline Jim

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Re: Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla. (right . . . . )
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2008, 07:25:41 AM »
The media is way overplaying their Magic Negro hand.  I can see how people "sitting on the fence" will be so sick of Hussein Obama by the end of the summer that Dan Rather will have to kneecap McCain to keep McCain from running away with 46 states.

Obamamania is about to get to the saturation point.  The reaction to Obama will soon mirror the reaction to the "Miracle Ear" commercial that runs every six minutes during a late night rerun of "Law & Order".  




add to that the assumption that "young people" are going to break a 30 year trend of NOT voting.  they too will OD on politics as they always do once they see that whoever is running is just another polititian.
My fellow Americans, there is nothing audacious about hope. Hope is what makes people buy lottery tickets instead of paying the bills. Hope is for the old gals feeding the slots in Atlantic City. It destroys the inner-city kid who quits school because he hopes he'll be a world-famous recording artist.

What's the difference between Sarah Palin and Barack Obama?

One is a well turned-out, good-looking, and let's be honest, pretty sexy piece of eye-candy.

The other kills her own food.

Offline franksolich

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Re: Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla. (right . . . . )
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2008, 07:57:06 AM »
There is no way in HELL that Socialist will win Georgia.

This reminds me of the time the primitives were reminescencing about past elections, and one primitive "proved" that Walter Mundane "almost" carried Georgia against Ronald Reagan in 1984.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline franksolich

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Re: Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla. (right . . . . )
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2008, 08:00:25 AM »
Dan Rather will have to kneecap McCain to keep McCain from running away with 46 states.

It could change, but as it stands now, given past trends, 49.  All but Vermont.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline Wretched Excess

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Re: Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla. (right . . . . )
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2008, 08:48:44 AM »

hillary underestimated Obama in the primaries.  she got pasted.  jus' sayin'


Offline Jim

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Re: Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla. (right . . . . )
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2008, 08:52:34 AM »

hillary underestimated Obama in the primaries.  she got pasted.  jus' sayin'





she clearly misunderstood the plan they had for him however the primaries are way different than the general.  that stuff will not work in the general and his weakness in so many demographics will show.
My fellow Americans, there is nothing audacious about hope. Hope is what makes people buy lottery tickets instead of paying the bills. Hope is for the old gals feeding the slots in Atlantic City. It destroys the inner-city kid who quits school because he hopes he'll be a world-famous recording artist.

What's the difference between Sarah Palin and Barack Obama?

One is a well turned-out, good-looking, and let's be honest, pretty sexy piece of eye-candy.

The other kills her own food.

Offline Wretched Excess

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Re: Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla. (right . . . . )
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2008, 09:02:17 AM »

hillary underestimated Obama in the primaries.  she got pasted.  jus' sayin'





she clearly misunderstood the plan they had for him however the primaries are way different than the general.  that stuff will not work in the general and his weakness in so many demographics will show.

I understand all that.  I was just pointing out that she underestimated him, and she'll be at home for the playoffs, so to speak.


Offline Wretched Excess

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Re: Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla. (right . . . . )
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2008, 09:10:10 AM »

but as long as we're on the subject, here is one of "WE's General Election Scenarios";  He goes into the dem convention with something like a 5% lead, delivers one of his Zombie creating "I will heal the oceans" speeches, a good but of the country falls for it, and he comes out of it with a 20+ point bounce.  McCain delivers one of his trademark wince inducing acceptance speeches, and the entire country switches the channel.

it could be all but over at that point.

it is significant that with all of the bad news that the MSM keeps shoveling on top of us, that mccain is only slightly behind.  I'm just saying that this is about the biggest thing to hit politics since Reagan, and this talk of winning 40+ states just doesn't make any sense to me.





Offline Jim

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Re: Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla. (right . . . . )
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2008, 09:23:23 AM »

hillary underestimated Obama in the primaries.  she got pasted.  jus' sayin'





she clearly misunderstood the plan they had for him however the primaries are way different than the general.  that stuff will not work in the general and his weakness in so many demographics will show.

I understand all that.  I was just pointing out that she underestimated him, and she'll be at home for the playoffs, so to speak.




I think she was stuck on Bubba's campaign engine which was 16 years old.  But she should NOT have failed to know that his populist "hope" crap would sell.  It sure did for Bubba, the guy from Hope....
My fellow Americans, there is nothing audacious about hope. Hope is what makes people buy lottery tickets instead of paying the bills. Hope is for the old gals feeding the slots in Atlantic City. It destroys the inner-city kid who quits school because he hopes he'll be a world-famous recording artist.

What's the difference between Sarah Palin and Barack Obama?

One is a well turned-out, good-looking, and let's be honest, pretty sexy piece of eye-candy.

The other kills her own food.

Offline Lord Undies

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Re: Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla. (right . . . . )
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2008, 09:26:49 AM »

but as long as we're on the subject, here is one of "WE's General Election Scenarios";  He goes into the dem convention with something like a 5% lead, delivers one of his Zombie creating "I will heal the oceans" speeches, a good but of the country falls for it, and he comes out of it with a 20+ point bounce.  McCain delivers one of his trademark wince inducing acceptance speeches, and the entire country switches the channel.

it could be all but over at that point.

it is significant that with all of the bad news that the MSM keeps shoveling on top of us, that mccain is only slightly behind.  I'm just saying that this is about the biggest thing to hit politics since Reagan, and this talk of winning 40+ states just doesn't make any sense to me.


The first unscripted debate will change all that.  Obama cannot form an unscripted sentence.  "Hope & Change" won't cut it.  Neither will calling the USA the greatest nation on earth and then talking about how we must have change.  It doesn't connect. 

Offline Jim

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Re: Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla. (right . . . . )
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2008, 09:27:54 AM »

but as long as we're on the subject, here is one of "WE's General Election Scenarios";  He goes into the dem convention with something like a 5% lead, delivers one of his Zombie creating "I will heal the oceans" speeches, a good but of the country falls for it, and he comes out of it with a 20+ point bounce.  McCain delivers one of his trademark wince inducing acceptance speeches, and the entire country switches the channel.

it could be all but over at that point.

it is significant that with all of the bad news that the MSM keeps shoveling on top of us, that mccain is only slightly behind.  I'm just saying that this is about the biggest thing to hit politics since Reagan, and this talk of winning 40+ states just doesn't make any sense to me.








its all going to boil down to taxes, terror and class warfare.

if the GOP can demonstrate how BHO is going to be excavating in EVERYONE's wallet that will nail him.

if they show the effect of cut-n-run, that should seal the deal.

throw in guns, race, judgement and THE SUPREME COURT and the right will turn up while kids will not.

and don't forget, Barry don't pay no walk around money....
My fellow Americans, there is nothing audacious about hope. Hope is what makes people buy lottery tickets instead of paying the bills. Hope is for the old gals feeding the slots in Atlantic City. It destroys the inner-city kid who quits school because he hopes he'll be a world-famous recording artist.

What's the difference between Sarah Palin and Barack Obama?

One is a well turned-out, good-looking, and let's be honest, pretty sexy piece of eye-candy.

The other kills her own food.

Offline Wretched Excess

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Re: Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla. (right . . . . )
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2008, 09:32:30 AM »

hillary underestimated Obama in the primaries.  she got pasted.  jus' sayin'





she clearly misunderstood the plan they had for him however the primaries are way different than the general.  that stuff will not work in the general and his weakness in so many demographics will show.

I understand all that.  I was just pointing out that she underestimated him, and she'll be at home for the playoffs, so to speak.




I think she was stuck on Bubba's campaign engine which was 16 years old.  But she should NOT have failed to know that his populist "hope" crap would sell.  It sure did for Bubba, the guy from Hope....

probably had a lot to do with it.  and she seemed to be running a general election/electoral college campaign (win the big states) instead of a primary campaign.  I think it was mostly just a huge strategic blunder based on the fact that the early polls all said that she would waltz to the nomination.  but at least BHO isn't going to sneak up on us like he did to her;  we at least see him coming.

and bill clinton was a fluke in a lot of ways.  the one primary season that he won was populated by lightweights.  then, of course, he had ross perot to thank in 92 and 96 in the general. 

Offline Wretched Excess

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Re: Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla. (right . . . . )
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2008, 09:40:31 AM »

but as long as we're on the subject, here is one of "WE's General Election Scenarios";  He goes into the dem convention with something like a 5% lead, delivers one of his Zombie creating "I will heal the oceans" speeches, a good but of the country falls for it, and he comes out of it with a 20+ point bounce.  McCain delivers one of his trademark wince inducing acceptance speeches, and the entire country switches the channel.

it could be all but over at that point.

it is significant that with all of the bad news that the MSM keeps shoveling on top of us, that mccain is only slightly behind.  I'm just saying that this is about the biggest thing to hit politics since Reagan, and this talk of winning 40+ states just doesn't make any sense to me.


The first unscripted debate will change all that.  Obama cannot form an unscripted sentence.  "Hope & Change" won't cut it.  Neither will calling the USA the greatest nation on earth and then talking about how we must have change.  It doesn't connect. 

I agree that he doesn't debate well, but I'm not sure even he can screw it up badly enough to change things appreciably.  unless someone says something extraordinarily stupid, presidential debates just don't move numbers. or at least they haven't in the past.  and it remains to be seen what sort of impact seeing young, dynamic, and rhetorically brilliant BHO on the same debate stage next to john mccain could have.  that alone could sink us.

and BHO's campaign is about to cram three dozen talking points into him, and threaten him if he deviates from them even slightly anytime between now and november.  other than the conventions, it's going to be hard to move the numbers very much.




Offline franksolich

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Re: Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla. (right . . . . )
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2008, 09:50:41 AM »
Michael Dukakis led in the polls by a margin exceeding 17% after the Democrat convention of 1988.

George Bush beat him in a 1980 Reaganesque landslide; remember?
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline Wretched Excess

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Re: Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla. (right . . . . )
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2008, 09:55:14 AM »
Michael Dukakis led in the polls by a margin exceeding 17% after the Democrat convention of 1988.

George Bush beat him in a 1980 Reaganesque landslide; remember?

yep.  but I think you are actually supporting my point.  bush's convention was second, and his bump actually dwarfed dukakis' convention bump.  the numbers didn't change very much after that.


Offline Jim

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Re: Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla. (right . . . . )
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2008, 09:56:49 AM »
Michael Dukakis led in the polls by a margin exceeding 17% after the Democrat convention of 1988.

George Bush beat him in a 1980 Reaganesque landslide; remember?



the MSM will insure a bump but its unsustainable over nearly 3 months.
My fellow Americans, there is nothing audacious about hope. Hope is what makes people buy lottery tickets instead of paying the bills. Hope is for the old gals feeding the slots in Atlantic City. It destroys the inner-city kid who quits school because he hopes he'll be a world-famous recording artist.

What's the difference between Sarah Palin and Barack Obama?

One is a well turned-out, good-looking, and let's be honest, pretty sexy piece of eye-candy.

The other kills her own food.

Offline Wretched Excess

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Re: Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla. (right . . . . )
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2008, 10:07:21 AM »
Michael Dukakis led in the polls by a margin exceeding 17% after the Democrat convention of 1988.

George Bush beat him in a 1980 Reaganesque landslide; remember?



the MSM will insure a bump but its unsustainable over nearly 3 months.

I think that 10 days after both conventions are over, whatever the margin is at that point could very well be indicative of the margin in november.  this is all complicated by the fact that the conventions are right on each other this election cycle;  if I recall correctly, the dems end on thursday, and the republicans start the next monday (or something very similar to that).  it's going to be harder than usual to figure out where the numbers are going and why until the dust settles.