Official: 19 firefighters die battling Ariz. fire

[Ptarmigan]

Official: 19 firefighters die battling Ariz. fire
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_WILDFIRES_ARIZONA?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-06-30-23-19-19



So tragic.
 

[DLR Pyro]

Terrible news.

[here]

I never understand why they fight fires that are just property but I didn't look at the link

[RobJohnson]

Sad news.

[98ZJUSMC]

I never understand why they fight fires that are just property but I didn't look at the link

Neither do I.

[NHSparky]

I never understand why they fight fires that are just property but I didn't look at the link

Uh, because if you don't, then they threaten more than just property?

That's like asking why cops investigate property crimes.  Seriously.  THINK.

[JohnnyReb]

Me, I'd put half a dozen of very large bulldozers abreast of each other and bulldoze(plow to bare earth) an ugly as hell fire break.....then the tree hugging environmentalist would cry enough tears to put out the fire.

[here]

Me, I'd put half a dozen of very large bulldozers abreast of each other and bulldoze(plow to bare earth) an ugly as hell fire break.....then the tree hugging environmentalist would cry enough tears to put out the fire.

Agreed.  Politics prevents using containment and prevention. 

[NHSparky]

Me, I'd put half a dozen of very large bulldozers abreast of each other and bulldoze(plow to bare earth) an ugly as hell fire break.....then the tree hugging environmentalist would cry enough tears to put out the fire.

Okay.  Get them there.  Some of the terrain there is, to put it mildly, rough.  As it is around Prescott.  Quite often too steep for bulldozers, etc.

No doubt about it, fire jumping is some of the roughest, hardest, most dangerous work out there.  Prayers for the fallen and their families.

[Karin]

This is just horrible.  Prayers for the fallen, and gratitude for their service.

[Kimberly]

"One of the last fail safe methods that a firefighter can do under those conditions is literally to dig as much as they can down and cover themselves with a protective - kinda looks like a foil type - fire-resistant material - with the desire, the hope at least, is that the fire will burn over the top of them and they can survive it," Fraijo said.

"Under certain conditions there's usually only sometimes a 50 percent chance that they survive," he said. "It's an extreme measure that's taken under the absolute worst conditions."

I read another article that said most of the firefighters' bodies were found in their shelters. Just horrible. I can't imagine the bravery it takes to do a job like that. Prayers for their families and prayers for the rest of the firefighters out there doing their jobs.

[ChuckJ]

I hate to hear about these firefighters. Prayers go out to their family.

Years and years ago my dad fought fires for the forestry commission. He was a dozer operator. He told me a story once of a fellow operator whose dozer got surrounded by fire.

If I remember the story correctly there is a tiny, shallow, sandy bottom stream running through the area. The dozer operator straddled the stream with with the dozer than climbed beneath the dozer and wallowed himself as deeply as he could into the stream bed. Luckily he survived.

[JohnnyReb]

Okay.  Get them there.  Some of the terrain there is, to put it mildly, rough.  As it is around Prescott.  Quite often too steep for bulldozers, etc.

No doubt about it, fire jumping is some of the roughest, hardest, most dangerous work out there.  Prayers for the fallen and their families.

Granted but you have to have some commonsense....tilt the blade and plow a road on steep terrain....you're not trying to do pretty work, gouge it out....where it's to rough, follow the valleys or the tops of ridges when needed.....if the fire is about to catch you and you have no way out or no chance to out run it.....clear as large a spot as you can, then dig as deep a hole as you have time for, park dozer away from hole and get in the hole and your  protective tent.

You would have to pound it in their heads not to wait until the last minute to start worrying and preparing for their own safety. No damn trees are worth a human life.

[NHSparky]

Reb--I'm talking from first-hand experience.  I've lived in the fire zones of CA, AZ, NM, CO, and most of the other western states.  I'm not a firefighter, but I know guys who have worked for CDF, etc.

Prescott is NOT someplace you just hoist a Cat D-9 and start plowing shit.  I'm talking 20-30 degree slopes.  Or worse.  Throw the wind on top of it and you've got a nightmare on your hands.

The fires, believe it or not, can burn UNDERNEATH you even as you think you're digging it or plowing the fuel and pop up behind your ass.  This is why the firefighters tell residents in threatened areas to get the hell out if their homes are threatened, cause more often than not, it's not just their homes that are at risk, no matter how much clearance there might be between them and the brush/forest.

These guys were trying to save AN ENTIRE TOWN.  Most of that town is now GONE.

[JohnnyReb]

Reb--I'm talking from first-hand experience.  I've lived in the fire zones of CA, AZ, NM, CO, and most of the other western states.  I'm not a firefighter, but I know guys who have worked for CDF, etc.

Prescott is NOT someplace you just hoist a Cat D-9 and start plowing shit.  I'm talking 20-30 degree slopes.  Or worse.  Throw the wind on top of it and you've got a nightmare on your hands.

The fires, believe it or not, can burn UNDERNEATH you even as you think you're digging it or plowing the fuel and pop up behind your ass.  This is why the firefighters tell residents in threatened areas to get the hell out if their homes are threatened, cause more often than not, it's not just their homes that are at risk, no matter how much clearance there might be between them and the brush/forest.

These guys were trying to save AN ENTIRE TOWN.  Most of that town is now GONE.

I haven't been as far west as CA. but have see the others and the soil conditions.....key word is commonsense and knowing when and where you could use heavy equipment. The small John Deeres and fire plows like we use around here wouldn't work at all out there....after the fire passed over maybe but not before.

20-30 degree slopes.....I've worked slopes up to 45 degrees (1 to 1 slopes) .. ..I didn't like to let my hired help even work 2 to 1 slopes, I always did the dangerous stuff myself.

Gotta go...back later.

[sybilll]

The lone survivor was reportedly sent to retrieve a truck for the rescue effort.  I just can't fathom how he must feel.  19? 19? really?  At a loss for words.