Ralph Nader wasn't the only person that cost Al Gore the election in 2000

[Ptarmigan]

kentuck (67,080 posts)

Ralph Nader wasn't the only person that cost Al Gore the election in 2000. [View all]

Just so we can discuss it from a factual standpoint. Al Gore won the popular vote by about 500,000 votes.

However, a lot of people were pissed off at Bill Clinton, including Al Gore, because of the Monica Lewinsky affair. He did not seek Clinton's help in states like Arkansas or Tennessee, which he lost.

Also, in Florida, Bush received more Democratic votes than did Ralph Nader. Who were those Democrats? I doubt that they were "liberals"? And why did they vote for Bush?

Furthermore, elections are between different people and different ideas. No one is sworn to vote for the Democratic candidate, no matter what. There is no blood oath. People can vote for whomever they wish. If you are unable to persuade a person to vote for you, perhaps it is not the voters fault?

It gets rather stale to hear people sing that one note: "Ralph Nader caused Al Gore to lose the election". He may have been part of the reason Gore lost but he was not the only reason. The major reason Gore lost was the US Supreme Court. They were wrong to decide an election that should have been handled by the state of Florida. They were manipulated by the right-wingers. They stole the election.

It should of never been in the US Supreme Court to begin with. GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!

quinnox (16,178 posts)
1. Gore lost his home state

Its just a weeeee bit important to win your home state when you are running for president. Jesus, this isn't rocket science. Gore blew it. And then, he still should have won anyway, but the Supreme Court was full of Bush stooges.

(3,345 posts)
20. what the supreme's did was illegal and shouldnt have be

(798 posts)
10. you never hear these same people thanking Perot for 1992


Last edited Wed Jun 26, 2013, 11:43 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
Perot got 19 PERCENT!!!!! One of those votes was mine. While he drew democrats, most feel he took more votes from Bush than Clinton.

and frankly, although I dont follow republican sites, I've never heard a republican gripe about Perot in 1992, where the factor was far more clear

Clinton went ahead with all of the Policies I voted for Perot to avoid, and more

onehandle (36,157 posts)
13. Thank you, Ross Perot.

**** you, Ralph Nader.

And they complained like Hell about Perot.

**** you, Ralph Nader???????   He is a leftist like you guys.

nadinbrzezinski (122,546 posts)
16. At this point...they need the two minutes of hate

She became the expert about the US Supreme Court and elections.  

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3101592

[JohnnyReb]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=903fbnhNwho

....it would be if 67,080 post Kentuck was gone.

[Skul]

Idiots still don't understand why it ended up in the court, and the reason behind the decision.
Good grief, they're dense.  

[JohnnyReb]

Idiots still don't understand why it ended up in the court, and the reason behind the decision.
Good grief, they're dense.  

Dense you say? I think of dense as meaning tightly packed....DUmmies are loosely wrapped.

[Karin]

I noticed a couple of threads over there with just vague "**** you Ralph Nader, you Asshole" themes.  I was wondering if he had done something to make the news, or if this is just an old festering wound they can't let go? 

[Ptarmigan]

I noticed a couple of threads over there with just vague "**** you Ralph Nader, you Asshole" themes.  I was wondering if he had done something to make the news, or if this is just an old festering wound they can't let go?  

I have noticed a general hatred towards Ralph Nader at DU, especially more recently. It stemmed from Ralph Nader calling Barack Obama a con man.

Ralph Nader: 'Has There Been a Bigger Con Man in the White House Than Barack Obama?'
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/06/13/ralph-nader-has-there-been-bigger-con-man-white-house-barack-obama

I suspect many DU'ers hate Ralph Nader already and it just reinforced it. Their hatred for Nader is from the 2000 and 2004 Election. Also, he is left, but a not Democrat and many DU'ers are very loyal to that party.

I do wonder what they think of Dennis Kucinich because he is even further left than Obama.

[Skul]

I'm waiting for one of them to blame Lieberman, instead of Nader.
Then, in 2006 when he ran as an independent and won, the progs had a meltdown.
As I recall, DUmmie FUnnies highlighted the kerfuncle at the DUmp

[Ptarmigan]

I'm waiting for one of them to blame Lieberman, instead of Nader.
Then, in 2006 when he ran as an independent and won, the progs had a meltdown.
As I recall, DUmmie FUnnies highlighted the kerfuncle at the DUmp

Interesting they had a meltdown when Lieberman won as an Independent instead of Democrat. Makes me think that many DUmmies are more loyal to political party.

[Ptarmigan]

Just made two days ago. More Nader bashing. It is quite a large topic.

LaydeeBug (4,639 posts)

Ralph Nader ABSOLUTELY Helped Cost President Gore the Election in 2000 despite these revisionists
 trying to tell you otherwise. Nader called Gore and Bush 'identical' on the environment. Oh no, NOTHING to see there.

The NYT on the matter:
In Florida, where Mr. Gore trailed Mr. Bush by only a few hundred votes, a shift of just a fraction of the nearly 97,000 votes Mr. Nader polled could have given the state, and the White House, to Mr. Gore, the most likely major-party alternative for Mr. Nader's supporters.

The argument can be made that Nader did not cost what was stolen, but do you honestly think the campaign insiders weren't aware of what was going on about voter rolls? Nader was a conduit for the theft, and I am not going to suffer revisionists trying to placate their sorry asses now with "Oh nooooooes!11!!! It wasn't *Nader*"

Yes it ****ing was, and people who don't learn from their mistakes are destined to repeat them.

graham4anything (10,855 posts)
1. NH and their 4 votes would have put Gore over 270 without Florida.

LaydeeBug (4,639 posts)
3. This is very true, but that doesn't mean that Nader had nothing to do with abetting the theft in

Florida.

**** this revisionist shit.

graham4anything (10,855 posts)
14. It has been true since 8pm eastern on election day 2000

And well, people elected Jeb Bush to be governor

actions of voters have consequences
Jeb Bush put Kathryn Harris in her job

Who did one think Harris would support?

As for SCOTUS, anyone who didn't vote for Jimmy Carter in 1980, must have been happy with the SCOTUS Reagan/Bush41 selected.

It really is simple

from now on vote straight democratic and in the future we won't have these problems
100% of the time (except in the rare instantane where the democratic candidate is one who can't win and there is a 3rd option

Governorships and senate seats and mayor seats and all the others including house are as important

People seem to forget

no one gives the others a pass, but actions=consequences

revisionist history is thinking Ralph Nader did not cause what happen
(and he has had a really nice life style financed by what he did).

We do though, it can be agreed, thank him for the fact that from this day forward, NO 3rd party candidate shall ever
be seriously entertained as a vote by any true democratic supporter.

I also btw, blame those who smeared Jesse Jackson time and again.(and still do).
I vote for Jesse twice for President and once knowing Jerry Brown was going to pick him for VP, so I voted 3x for him.
(but that was the primaries ON THE DEMOCRATIC Ticket.

A Simple Game (4,975 posts)
96. Now I am just getting confused, please clear things up for me

You said:
if all the votes were there and counted, Al Gore won a landslide (100,000 votes in Florida???)

How does that coincide with your saying Nader cost Gore the election?

You say: Nader made it close enough for them to steal the election. Seems if Nader cost Gore the election he must have been the one to steal it. Is that what you are saying?

You say all Democrats must vote for the Democratic candidate, are you saying Democratic voters voted for Nader? Do you think independents had anything to do with it? How about Liberals?

Other than telling people who they must vote for, a solution that seems totally undemocratic to me, how would you stop people from voting for a third party candidate? Would you outlaw third party candidates? Would you be the one to decide who could run for office on the Democratic ticket?

Perhaps you feel like the Republicans, eliminate minority and female voters and we will have the candidate(s) we want elected. Who would you eliminate from the voting poles?

Everything you advocate seems undemocratic to me, please show me how I am wrong. What makes you think you can tell me who to vote for?

graham4anything (10,855 posts)
100. Ralph Nader himself made sure that a 3rd party vote will never interfere with the democratic party

and I really could care less if say Rand Paul ran independent against Jeb Bush or CHris Christie and that led
to Hillary winning all 538 votes.

Why didn't Nader just run as a democratic party candidate in the primaries, get in the debates and go from there?

As he wanted something and he has said, he was rebuffed by Al Gore according to him (like he wanted say a cabinet post?)
that means he knows which side was better, and he did it solely for ego.

Gore should have offered him whatever he wanted. America would have been far better off had the two worked together rather than apart.

In effect, President Obama included Hillary and didn't shun Hillary. He values Hillary. And the two have worked together and will support each other.

People forget that President Obama ran to unite.
And he united 95% of the democratic supporters.

Nader could have done the same thing. His Ego got in the way (same as Ted's in 1980),etc.
(in 1980, Jimmy/Ted should have been the ticket, with Mondale being given say SOS or possibly a SCOTUS nomination
Jimmy/Ted would have beaten Reagan).

And yes, all the factors, both separate and apart led to bush seated.
One in November, one in December.

Perhaps, Nader does not like the Democratic party.  

riqster (4,592 posts)
6. There are lots of other possible scenarios

But in the one we actually experienced, Nader's Republican-financed campaign made Florida close enough to steal.

still_one (31,649 posts)
2. We have been paying for nader's arrogance since 2000, and it isn't getting better

LaydeeBug (4,639 posts)
5. absolutely. And I will not suffer revisionists. nt

G_j (31,345 posts)
28. LOL

it's funny how while lamenting today's SCOTUS ruling, some conveniently forget
how African Americans were purged in Florida, flying right in the face of voter rights.

Playing the race card game.  

LaydeeBug (4,639 posts)
29. Oh, I know. These people are a *scream*

Don't blame Nader for aiding the theft, blame Gore for losing the election that he ****ing WON. They are blaming the victim, and I can't stand that shit.

noiretextatique (21,498 posts)
42. but that was nader's fault too!

Waiting For Everyman (6,395 posts)
7. Without Nader, there would've been a President Gore.

That means he cost Gore the election. Yes, it does. What's more, I think Nader knew that's what he was doing.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023091597

It is obvious they really hate Ralph Nader and has worsened.

[Ptarmigan]

Another anti-Ralph Nader topic from the past couple of days. It is quite large as well. A lot of "**** You, Ralph Nader". There are many anti-Nader topics at DU and more so just this week alone. They got Nader Derangement Syndrome.

still_one (31,649 posts)

To Ralph Nader who said their was no difference between the Democrats and repugs. Citizens United,
 and The Voting Rights Act

Get lost Ralph

still_one (31,649 posts)
2. 2000 changed everything

Fat Che's Little Brother (9,003 posts)
3. To the Third Way Democrats who thought we had no place to go

we did.

Think twice before pushing more Conservadems down our throat.

riqster (4,592 posts)
6. Yes, and voting for 3rd party candidates helped cause this.

Fat Che's Little Brother (9,003 posts)
9. It only accelerated it.

We already have a Democratic President who is further to the right than Nixon, and economically more to the right than Reagan. And that was with the backlash against Bush.

markiv (802 posts)
29. we cant afford dissent in this party

every time you complain about a democrat, you elect a republican

do you really want that?

it's time to stop whining about small imperfections of democrats, nobody's perfect, stop expecting it

mountain grammy (1,881 posts)
37. But when Gore chose Lieberman as his VP, I was sick.

Like the Sarah Palin of the Democratic party, old Joe almost pushed me away. But I stayed strong and voted for the ticket because even old Joe would be better than what we ended up with. But I gotta say, if it wasn't a close election, I would have voted Green.
The extreme corrupt court is the legacy of the 2000 appointment of GWBush.

Arugula Latte (40,622 posts)
66. Gawd how I despise Lieberman.

One of the worse Veep picks in U.S. history ... and he only got worse as time went on.

Sickening, horrible creep.

They hate Joe Lieberman as well.

Arkana (22,338 posts)
45. Without Ralph, Al Gore wins Florida.

If Al Gore wins Florida (by a margin too large to contest), there is no John Roberts or Samuel Alito.

Thus there is no Citizens United or this abortion of a ruling today.

Actions have consequences--I just wish people knew that.

noiretextatique (21,498 posts)
47. you need to blame the culprits, namely SCOTUS

since you are giving them a free pass for all their terrible decisions.

It should of never been in the courts. Blame that on Al Gore.

bluestate10 (8,750 posts)
64. Wrong. The SCOTUS didn't elect Bush. Bush won Florida by 1,000 votes.

People, you have no idea of how much it pains me to write that. I wish instead that I could right about the eight great years of President Gore. But reality is ****ing reality and we got eight years of a Bush disaster because 97,000 ****ing people in Florida thought they were smarter and more pristine than anyone else.

Someone is stirring the hornet's nest.

Cha (126,151 posts)
67. Definitely, **** off, nader. Not to mention

reality on Climate Change.. "Abortion rights, and same sex marriage? Food stamps? EPA, DOE, Iran?" thanks fresh..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3096829

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023090841

[Ptarmigan]

I noticed a couple of threads over there with just vague "**** you Ralph Nader, you Asshole" themes.  I was wondering if he had done something to make the news, or if this is just an old festering wound they can't let go?  

Ralph Nader: Enough 'Dynasty' Presidencies
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/ralph-nader-dynasty-presidencies/2013/06/25/id/511751

The nation has had enough "dynasty" presidencies, says Ralph Nader, and he'd like to see somebody else other than Hillary Clinton run for the White House on the Democratic side in 2016.

 Perhaps, California Sen. Barbara Boxer would be a nice alternative, he suggested in an interview with Politico.

 "We really need a dynasty now? We've had 12 years of the Bushes. What, do you want eight more years of the Clintons? Do we really want a redux here or do we want fresh energy and refresh redirections?," Nader, a former presidential candidate several times over who says he's finally done seeking the spot, told Politico.

 Besides, Nader added, Hillary Clinton has a long list of issues that could turn out to be problems for the former first lady, senator, and secretary of state if she decides to run.

Ralph Nader outlines 2016 plan
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/ralph-nader-outlines-2016-plan-93286.html

Nader will always be linked with the close 2000 election, in which some accused Nader of siphoning crucial votes away from then-Vice President Al Gore in his campaign against George W. Bush. Nader’s been a bit surprised to see the 43rd president enjoy a bit of a resurgence in public approval ratings.

[Karin]

Oh, so that's why they have a bug up their ass.  Thanks. 
I don't like dynasty politics, either.  G4A just loves them; he really belongs in a kingdom somewhere.

[AllosaursRus]

I have noticed a general hatred towards Ralph Nader at DU, especially more recently. It stemmed from Ralph Nader calling Barack Obama a con man.

Ralph Nader: 'Has There Been a Bigger Con Man in the White House Than Barack Obama?'
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/06/13/ralph-nader-has-there-been-bigger-con-man-white-house-barack-obama

I suspect many DU'ers hate Ralph Nader already and it just reinforced it. Their hatred for Nader is from the 2000 and 2004 Election. Also, he is left, but a not Democrat and many DU'ers are very loyal to that party.

I do wonder what they think of Dennis Kucinich because he is even further left than Obama.

Nader is so old he can't even tie his shoes! WTF are these little pukes complainin' about?

Nobody listens to that has been anymore. For Cripes sake, get a life DUmmies!

[Skul]

Are the DUmmies reading CC?
 

Arugula Latte (40,622 posts)
66. Gawd how I despise Lieberman.

One of the worse Veep picks in U.S. history ... and he only got worse as time went on.

Sickening, horrible creep.

mountain grammy (1,881 posts)
37. But when Gore chose Lieberman as his VP, I was sick.

Like the Sarah Palin of the Democratic party, old Joe almost pushed me away. But I stayed strong and voted for the ticket because even old Joe would be better than what we ended up with. But I gotta say, if it wasn't a close election, I would have voted Green.
The extreme corrupt court is the legacy of the 2000 appointment of GWBush.

[obumazombie]

Lib dude says owebuma ran to unite. Then dude says owebuma united 95% of lib/dem/socialists. So that's what a lib means by unite.

[miskie]

Al Gore cost Al Gore the election. He is a pompous, self-entitled prick. The people of his home state - the people who know him best - said 'no' to his election bid. That one issue cost him the election.


*And all the crap about Supreme Court yadd-yadda etc etc is nothing more than crap. Unlike the myths you tell yourselves, the media performed recounts found a GWB win in nearly all scenarios, save for one involving giving 'overvotes' to Gore. Here it is, from Liberal-Approved Wikipedia.

The media reported the results of the study during the week after November 12, 2001. The results of the study showed that had the limited county by county recounts requested by the Gore team been completed, Bush would still have been the winner of the election. However, the study also showed that the result of a statewide recount of all disputed ballots could have been different. The study was unable to review the ballots in Broward and Volusia that were counted as legal votes during the manual recounts thus analysis included those figures that were obtained using very loose standards in its calculations. Since these recounts resulted in a sizable net gain for Gore (665 net Gore votes) they have no bearing on the assessment that Bush would likely have won the recounts requested by Gore and ordered by the Florida Supreme Court. They do, however, play a major role in the assessment that Gore could have won a recount of the entire state if overvotes were taken into account. Without these votes Gore would have lost a recount of the entire state even with all overvotes added in. Unless 495 or more of those votes were actual votes then Gore still would have lost. Note these figures also do not take into account a dispute over 500 absentee ballots that Bush requested to be added to the certified totals. If found to be legal votes that would put Gore totally out of reach regardless of any manual recount standard.

So, there you have it primitives. Suck it.  

[Chris_]

Al Gore cost Al Gore the election. He is a pompous, self-entitled prick. The people of his home state - the people who know him best - said 'no' to his election bid. That one issue cost him the election.

I wish I could have contributed, but I was in North Carolina at the time.  I voted for Bush anyway.