Impeachment: Which of the 35 articles is likeliest to yield a CONVICTION?

[Carl]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3451414

JackRiddler (1000+ posts)         Sat Jun-14-08 11:57 AM
Original message
Impeachment: Which of the 35 articles is likeliest to yield a CONVICTION?
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A thread a couple of days ago asking which of the impeachment articles is most important led me to realize that importance in practical terms is actually the likelihood of yielding conviction and thus the removal of the criminal regime from office. Other crimes can then be pursued in a court setting. The highest priority is to end the immediate danger, so what's the best strategy?

Full text of resolution:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

One conviction = removal from office.

So, which looks best for conviction?

(Note: Please kick this thread on the way out, pass on word of impeachment to everyone you know, and call a media contact or congressperson every day to voice your support!)

-----

Article I
Creating a Secret Propaganda Campaign to Manufacture a False Case for War Against Iraq

Article II
Falsely, Systematically, and with Criminal Intent Conflating the Attacks of September 11, 2001, With Misrepresentation of Iraq as a Security Threat as Part of Fraudulent Justification for a War of
Aggression

Article III
Misleading the American People and Members of Congress to Believe Iraq Possessed Weapons of Mass Destruction, to Manufacture a False Case for War

Article IV
Misleading the American People and Members of Congress to Believe Iraq Posed an Imminent Threat to the United States

Article V
Illegally Misspending Funds to Secretly Begin a War of Aggression

Article VI
Invading Iraq in Violation of the Requirements of HJRes114

Article VII
Invading Iraq Absent a Declaration of War.

Article VIII
Invading Iraq, A Sovereign Nation, in Violation of the UN Charter

Article IX
Failing to Provide Troops With Body Armor and Vehicle Armor

Article X
Falsifying Accounts of US Troop Deaths and Injuries for Political Purposes

Article XI
Establishment of Permanent U.S. Military Bases in Iraq

Article XII
Initiating a War Against Iraq for Control of That Nation's Natural Resources

Article XIIII
Creating a Secret Task Force to Develop Energy and Military Policies With Respect to Iraq and Other Countries

Article XIV
Misprision of a Felony, Misuse and Exposure of Classified Information And Obstruction of Justice in the Matter of Valerie Plame Wilson, Clandestine Agent of the Central Intelligence Agency

Article XV
Providing Immunity from Prosecution for Criminal Contractors in Iraq

Article XVI
Reckless Misspending and Waste of U.S. Tax Dollars in Connection With Iraq and US Contractors

Article XVII
Illegal Detention: Detaining Indefinitely And Without Charge Persons Both U.S. Citizens and Foreign Captives

Article XVIII
Torture: Secretly Authorizing, and Encouraging the Use of Torture Against Captives in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Other Places, as a Matter of Official Policy

Article XIX
Rendition: Kidnapping People and Taking Them Against Their Will to "Black Sites" Located in Other Nations, Including Nations Known to Practice Torture

Article XX
Imprisoning Children

Article XXI
Misleading Congress and the American People About Threats from Iran, and Supporting Terrorist Organizations Within Iran, With the Goal of Overthrowing the Iranian Government

Article XXII
Creating Secret Laws

Article XXIII
Violation of the Posse Comitatus Act

Article XXIV
Spying on American Citizens, Without a Court-Ordered Warrant, in Violation of the Law and the Fourth Amendment

Article XXV
Directing Telecommunications Companies to Create an Illegal and Unconstitutional Database of the Private Telephone Numbers and Emails of American Citizens

Article XXVI
Announcing the Intent to Violate Laws with Signing Statements

Article XXVII
Failing to Comply with Congressional Subpoenas and Instructing Former Employees Not to Comply

Article XXVIII
Tampering with Free and Fair Elections, Corruption of the Administration of Justice

Article XXIX
Conspiracy to Violate the Voting Rights Act of 1965

Article XXX
Misleading Congress and the American People in an Attempt to Destroy Medicare

Article XXXI
Katrina: Failure to Plan for the Predicted Disaster of Hurricane Katrina, Failure to Respond to a Civil Emergency

Article XXXII
Misleading Congress and the American People, Systematically Undermining Efforts to Address Global Climate Change

Article XXXIII
Repeatedly Ignored and Failed to Respond to High Level Intelligence Warnings of Planned Terrorist Attacks in the US, Prior to 911.

Article XXXIV
Obstruction of the Investigation into the Attacks of September 11, 2001

Article XXXV
Endangering the Health of 911 First Responders

First time I have read these but Kooksinich is very correct in describing him.


One quote though before it is removed and the person TSed.

Angleae (147 posts)        Sun Jun-15-08 02:45 AM
Response to Original message
18. I'm going to get flamed for this but here goes
   Someone has to think these things through rationally.

Article I
Creating a Secret Propaganda Campaign to Manufacture a False Case for War Against Iraq

Lying to the american public and/or congress, unless under oath (and he never is), is not illegal.

Article II
Falsely, Systematically, and with Criminal Intent Conflating the Attacks of September 11, 2001, With Misrepresentation of Iraq as a Security Threat as Part of Fraudulent Justification for a War of Aggression

See Article I

Article III
Misleading the American People and Members of Congress to Believe Iraq Possessed Weapons of Mass Destruction, to Manufacture a False Case for War

See Article I

Article IV
Misleading the American People and Members of Congress to Believe Iraq Posed an Imminent Threat to the United States

See Article I

Article V
Illegally Misspending Funds to Secretly Begin a War of Aggression

As long as congress keeps writing a blank check, he can spend it any way he wants.

Article VI
Invading Iraq in Violation of the Requirements of HJRes114

Could you point out the exact section he is in violation of. I couldn't find it (the section, not law)

Article VII
Invading Iraq Absent a Declaration of War.

And this would be different from Yugoslavia, 1st Gulf War, Panama, Grenada, Vietnam, Korea ... how?

Article VIII
Invading Iraq, A Sovereign Nation, in Violation of the UN Charter

UN Charter is not US law, cannot be used. POTUS can withdraw from any treaty at will.

Article IX
Failing to Provide Troops With Body Armor and Vehicle Armor

And, but, so, therefore? Immoral yes. Despicable, yes. Illegal, not a chance.

Article X
Falsifying Accounts of US Troop Deaths and Injuries for Political Purposes

See Article I

Article XI
Establishment of Permanent U.S. Military Bases in Iraq

And the establishment of permanent US military bases in the UK, Germany, Italy, Korea, Japan, etc. is any different.

Article XII
Initiating a War Against Iraq for Control of That Nation's Natural Resources

Last I looked, we didn't have control of Iraq's natrual resources.

Article XIIII
Creating a Secret Task Force to Develop Energy and Military Policies With Respect to Iraq and Other Countries

This is what presidents do. They create "task forces" to create policy. They don't have to make it public.

Article XIV
Misprision of a Felony, Misuse and Exposure of Classified Information And Obstruction of Justice in the Matter of Valerie Plame Wilson, Clandestine Agent of the Central Intelligence Agency

Unless you can get one of the Bush cabal to testify against him that he ordered it there is no case.

Article XV
Providing Immunity from Prosecution for Criminal Contractors in Iraq

He can provide immunity from prosecution for any federal charge he wants, it's called a pardon.

Article XVI
Reckless Misspending and Waste of U.S. Tax Dollars in Connection With Iraq and US Contractors

So he's a moron. See Article V

Article XVII
Illegal Detention: Detaining Indefinitely And Without Charge Persons Both U.S. Citizens and Foreign Captives

Could be, no one can argue that he didn't know it was going on by now. Problem is, SCOTUS only recently ruled on this.

Article XVIII
Torture: Secretly Authorizing, and Encouraging the Use of Torture Against Captives in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Other Places, as a Matter of Official Policy

Could be, but againt you need evidence that he personally directed it (and you won't get it).

Article XIX
Rendition: Kidnapping People and Taking Them Against Their Will to "Black Sites" Located in Other Nations, Including Nations Known to Practice Torture

See Article XVIII

Article XX
Imprisoning Children

And just which law is being violated?

Article XXI
Misleading Congress and the American People About Threats from Iran, and Supporting Terrorist Organizations Within Iran, With the Goal of Overthrowing the Iranian Government

See Article I

Article XXII
Creating Secret Laws

It's called an executive order.

Article XXIII
Violation of the Posse Comitatus Act

Placing the national guard on the border is not a violation (it's partially what they are there for).

Article XXIV
Spying on American Citizens, Without a Court-Ordered Warrant, in Violation of the Law and the Fourth Amendment

This is the most likely.

Article XXV
Directing Telecommunications Companies to Create an Illegal and Unconstitutional Database of the Private Telephone Numbers and Emails of American Citizens

AFAIK, all the telecom companies either complied voluntarally or told him where to shove it.

Article XXVI
Announcing the Intent to Violate Laws with Signing Statements

Until he actually violates them, there is no law broken.

Article XXVII
Failing to Comply with Congressional Subpoenas and Instructing Former Employees Not to Comply

Which subpoena did he not comply with?

Article XXVIII
Tampering with Free and Fair Elections, Corruption of the Administration of Justice

Good luck proving this.

Article XXIX
Conspiracy to Violate the Voting Rights Act of 1965

Good luck proving this too. Making a law doesn't count.

Article XXX
Misleading Congress and the American People in an Attempt to Destroy Medicare

See Article I

Article XXXI
Katrina: Failure to Plan for the Predicted Disaster of Hurricane Katrina, Failure to Respond to a Civil Emergency

And which law is he personally to have violated?

Article XXXII
Misleading Congress and the American People, Systematically Undermining Efforts to Address Global Climate Change

See Article I

Article XXXIII
Repeatedly Ignored and Failed to Respond to High Level Intelligence Warnings of Planned Terrorist Attacks in the US, Prior to 911.

Just like FDR was impeached for ignoring and failing to respons to high level intelligence warning of planned japanese attacks.

Article XXXIV
Obstruction of the Investigation into the Attacks of September 11, 2001


Article XXXV
Endangering the Health of 911 First Responders

How? He was too busy reading "My pet goat" to doo anything.
   

 

[Lord Undies]

Occam Bandage  (1000+ posts)       Sun Jun-15-08 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Thanks for going through this. Dennis' latest stunt is simply a collection of
   buzzwords designed to capture the imagination of the left-wing blogosphere. He engages in non-productive grandstanding like this for vanity and for donations, not because he thinks there's any legal case to be had.

crickets  (1000+ posts)         Sun Jun-15-08 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. People killed in an illegal war are not buzzwords.   
   Since they're dead and all, they are only "political" in that someone has callously minimized and ignored them as though they are meaningless. So, who has done this?

Kucinich is not the one who has pulled "a stunt."

"Left-wing blogosphere?" What could you possibly mean by that?

Occam Bandage  (1000+ posts)       Sun Jun-15-08 02:47 AM
Response to Original message
19. Any of them and none of them. Impeachment is a completely political affair, and the votes cast
   would be political as well.

   

Pooka Fey  (1000+ posts)        Sun Jun-15-08 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. Can you define what you mean by "a completely political affair"?
   Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 07:16 AM by Pooka Fey
I'm picking up a distinctly negative connotation. Since "politics" is the exercise of power in the public sphere or arena, what do you mean when you state "Impeachment is a ....".

   

Occam Bandage  (1000+ posts)       Sun Jun-15-08 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. I mean each Senator would vote purely on what they believe would be best for
   their career/party, and not what they believe the merits of the case are. The particular charge discussed would be a very, very minor factor in the decision to vote for or against conviction.

dailykoff  (1000+ posts)         Sun Jun-15-08 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I think the discussion of the charges is what he's after.
   If they spent a week on each charge that would just about hogtie the Manson family until they get evicted in January.

   

Bleachers7  (1000+ posts)         Sun Jun-15-08 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. This is equivalent to discussion of unicorns and bigfoot
   Impeachment is a fantasy.

   
A stupid fantasy at that.

[Rebel]

Article IX
Failing to Provide Troops With Body Armor and Vehicle Armor

That always pissed me of. We go to war with what we have, DUmbass. Hell, when I was in we had Flak jackets. Good luck if you're hit with an AK in the chest with one of those f'n things. As for armored vehicles, they were almost unheard of in most military operations, save an Abrams, a Bradley, maybe a Fox, or some of the MP vehicles. Other than that, we drove around in MTV's, 5-tons, Deuce and a halfs, and HMMWV with plastic doors and a f'n plastic fuel cell underneath.

[Bondai]

They are idiots, every one of them. There is not going to be any impeachment. You DUmmies can smoke all the dope you want and dream away but it's not going to happen. The President has not commited any crimes, stop wasting your time you pathetic freaks.

He is not going to be involved in any coup either, you dumb bastards. Bomb Iran? maybe..in fact I would cheer if he did...you people are worthless morons so smoke somemore weed and STFU.....

[Rebel]

...and McCain doesn't need Bush's help to get elected. He already has Barack H-Word Obama.

[Bondai]

...and McCain doesn't need Bush's help to get elected. He already has Barack H-Word Obama.

...and BO has a wife who shall not be named....