primitive doesn't want to refer to 0bumbles

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022973359

Oh my.

This campfire just lit, and it's bound to grow.  I'll monitor it for primitive comments.

BlueCheese (1,260 posts)    Sat Jun 8, 2013, 06:47 PM

Turning down the heat: Can we discuss the surveillance issue without referring to Obama or to party?

To me, the issue of government surveillance is a gravely important one, that goes to the heart of what kind of country we want to live in, and what relationship the public should have with its government. I think DU and the nation at large really need to examine whether such expansive surveillance programs as were disclosed last week are necessary or safe to have.
 
Unfortunately, there's a tendency to see every argument through a political lens, and how it affects either Obama or the two parties. There are accusations, not altogether false, that people are using this issue as a proxy for previous arguments about Obama, as well as admonishments that not supporting the government position would be helpful to Republicans. I feel like these concerns are derailing attempts at a serious conversation.
 
What I'd like to do is see where people stand on the idea of the government surveillance in general, without regard to who authorized it, who is conducting it, or who will benefit politically from its effects.. Basically, I'm interested in your opinions on the following:
 
Do you think the government should be collecting all of the phone records it has been doing?
 
If so, do you see this as a measure to be taken because of the threat of terrorism, or as a normal function of government? Do you foresee a time when such collection would no longer be necessary? Should the program be secret, or should the public know about it?
 
If not, can you explain what parts of the program are most concerning? That it was secret? That it involved purely domestic calls? That it was overly broad? Would you be willing to accept smaller scale surveillance?
 
Please do not refer to either Obama or either party. Let's talk as if we were talking about a different country, whose people we want to support, but whose politicians and parties are unknown to us. Like say, Canada (just kidding, kind of).

Can we discuss the surveillance issue without referring to Obama or to party?

In one word, no.

[Skul]

BlueCheese (1,260 posts)    Sat Jun 8, 2013, 06:47 PM

Turning down the heat: Can we discuss the surveillance issue without referring to Obama or to party?

Hell no.
 

[I_B_Perky]

BlueCheese (1,260 posts)    Sat Jun 8, 2013, 06:47 PM

Turning down the heat: Can we discuss the surveillance issue without referring to Obama or to party?

Blah-blah-blah

No we can't dummie.  You know darn good and well if it was Bush... or any repub for that matter... you would be foaming at the mouth rabidly spewing "IMPEACH!!!! FROG MARCH TO JAIL!!!!!"

You know it and so do I dummie. Your messiah is nothing more than a Castro wanna be. Even if he knew nothing about the scandals rocking his admin, which I find somewhat likely since he is a dumbass, he is still responsible. He is the boss. He appointed the underlings and as such he is responsible for their actions. The buck stops at his desk. He wanted the job, and then after having it for 4 years, he wanted another 4 years. His hands are not clean. Simple as that.   

[franksolich]

Well, Hell.  I put my money on the wrong horse here.

That campfire's pretty stagnant.  I thought it'd be grown by leaps-and-bounds by now.

<<<put money on last-place finisher.

[I_B_Perky]

Star Member freshwest (32,022 posts)
4. I was more concerned about the use of my personal data in the Bush era.

I'd traveled to Canada in 2002 and stayed a week on vacation with a friend. To my surprise and not a little bit of terror, in 2006 I got a letter asking if I wanted to claim a sales tax rebate for taxes I'd paid on my purchases there.

The letter was from a company that was working for the federal government and cited federal law. I knew they had access to my credit card information, name, social security card, mailing address to verify who I was and that I'd made purchases there. They were all for meals, clothes, sundries, souvenirs. Nothing exciting or remotely of interest in the war on terra.

I didn't reply. Later in 2007, I began recieving letters from my high school in my full name that I'd graduated from about 40 years before. They wanted to get information about whether I was going to attend the class reunion I have never done so, and never been contacted by the school, ever, thousands of miles away from where I live now. So they had my high school records.

Just a minute, I'll get back and finish this post.

Well I got out my canoe and paddled over to the island for a look Frank... and lo and behold... Bush made it into the conversation!!! The dummie was more concerned about Bush than obumbles. Surprise look time.

Then he follows it up with a supposed letter from a company 4 yrs later, working for the feds of course, wanting to know if he wanted a sales tax credit. What a dumbass. The feds damn sure not gonna send you a letter like that or have any company do it.

Zero bongs.