"Don't follow your dream, it isn't worth it", says DU

[Vagabond]

The DUmmies being the lazy, miserable, slothful, addicted, and uncreative selves agree with a professor that says it isn't worth it to chase your dreams.  I know it's not a surprise, after all, this the DUmmie trope to graduating high school and college students.  "Don't dream and don't pursue them, you might fall along the way, so it isn't worth it."  The creed of a slave of ever there was one.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022937455

Sun Jun 2, 2013, 07:18 PM
 cynatnite (27,301 posts)

Professor: ‘Follow your dreams’ is cruel advice
With graduation season in full swing, students across the nation are being told the key to success is to “follow your dreams.”

But Professor Lisa Wade of Occidental College argues the idealistic cliche has no real value to students — and verges on being harmful.

“I think it is actually kind of cruel to give that advice,” she said on HuffPost Live. “First, because a lot of students don’t know what they want to do and so they feel this incredible pressure to figure out what their passion is just at that one moment.”

“Second of all, I think it is just absurd to think that the majority of Americans are going to be able to follow their passions, to get paid to do what you love,” Wade continued. “Historically speaking, that has been incredibly rare and is still incredibly rare. So I think it sets students up for failure.”

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/06/02/professor-follow-your-dreams-is-cruel-advice/

I hate bringing over c&p jobs, but it's necessary for the rest of it.

Response to cynatnite (Original post)
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 07:45 PM
Newest Reality (3,425 posts)
2. More like:

Practice lowering your expectations every chance you get.

Try to get along with your parents because you either have to stay there or will be moving back in at some point. Read books on family relations and how to facilitate them.

Start doing a little research on anti-depressants and their alternatives so that you are ready when it is your turn to take the plunge in this decaying culture. There really won't be much "therapy" for you if you don't have the kind of money it takes to get some professional to sit and listen to your problems for a "client" hour.

Don't give up on playing video games because they may be a primary form of entertainment and even have to double for vacations you won't have.

It is okay to follow your dreams if you are actually sleeping and you may find yourself sleeping more and have the time to follow your real dreams into places you will never go while awake.

Yes, you may be eligible for food stamps!

Surrender all hope, all ye who enter.  The alternative would be to strive, which might require effort.

Response to Newest Reality (Reply #2)
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 09:47 PM
rastaone (17 posts)
20. Ouch

Its sad because there a lot of truth in that post.

Ah, look a newly hatched DUmmie.  Wait, they do hatch, right?

Response to bvar22 (Reply #12)
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 09:37 PM
 DeadLetterOffice (17 posts)
18. I want to eat.

And have shelter, and clothes, and medicine when I need it.
While these things alone will not make me Happy, a lack of them will certainly make me Unhappy. Not to mention hungry, homeless, naked, and sick.

The real question is: Can you pay for your life doing what you're passionate about?
-- IF YES: Awesome for you -- go for it, and recognize that you're damn lucky.
-- IF NO: Welcome to the bulk of humanity. Go forth and hopefully make a living doing something you can tolerate, and follow your passions on the side for awhile. Maybe you'll be able to live off of them someday in the future. But in the meantime hopefully you won't be hungry, homeless, naked, and sick.

This DUmmie comes closer than most.  It must not be fully indoctrinated yet.

Response to bvar22 (Reply #12)
Mon Jun 3, 2013, 12:12 AM
liberal_at_heart (3,718 posts)
42. today's kids can forget about creativity, fun, passion, and dreams. They don't teach those things

anymore. Now the only thing they teach is how to pass math, science, and writing on a state standardized test. That's it. That is what our entire school system teaches. Nothing less. Nothing more.

Well, they also teach how to put a condom on a banana and they want to teach HIV/AIDS in fourth grade, including sex but before teaching sex ed.

Response to hunter (Reply #3)
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 10:19 PM
blahblah98 (5 posts)
27. I think this is what Prof. Wade is talking about...

I quit my job of 9yrs to go back to school and bring high-tech from engineering to the business world. I spent all my savings & maxed out my credit cards, but after 3 1/2 years, I started a company. I thought I'd made it. Then my partners fired me, and eventually ran the company to bankruptcy liquidation so I was left with nothing. The high-tech industry crashed, and I bounced between jobs, employed about 1/2 time. Stress wore down my family, my wife was angry & depressed all the time, my kids grew up under-performing with fewer opportunities than I'd had. We ate from the food-bank, borrowed from family to pay rent.

Finally after 15 hellish years I got a corporate job at a good, stable company. I'm paying my debts now, even bought my first house a couple months ago at the age of 50. My wife & I'll be working well into our 70s.

So I've come to believe that following your dreams applies to the rich and fortunate few. For the rest of us working-class folk it's a giant gamble with your future, the odds are not in your favor and the downside may be devastating. The media loves to play up the myths of the American Dream / Horatio Alger / Social Mobility, but the reality is we hear about the 1% successes but not the 99% failures.

Successful entrepreneurs sometimes talk about the dozens of times they failed before they succeeded once. How many among us can afford to fail a dozen times before that one success? I failed nearly that many times. Now, success to me is that corporate job I left nearly 20 years ago.

I think the brutal reality of today's college graduate job market is what Professor Wade is talking about: Do pursue your interests, but be realistic, pragmatic and always have a backup plan. My son in college likes & does well at history, but that is one of THE lowest-paying majors; why pay $150k for something that will eventually pay $40k/yr? He's logical and reasonably good at math, so it's a STEM major for him. There's a fine line between a dream and a nightmare.

Knocked down once and didn't get back up, yep you're a DUmmie.  I'm guessing in all of it that you thought people are altruistic.  Many times they are, but not when money is on the line.

Response to blahblah98 (Reply #27)
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 11:19 PM
HiPointDem (17,631 posts)
36. +1. working class kids are fed all sorts of unrealistic crap & thrown into the workplace.

i'm all for having dreams, but reality-based dreams. for working class kids that would include an education in the class system, the propagandistic function of the media, etc.

Which would amount to, "Give up your dreams, you'll never achieve them, Be happy with a few crumbs from the governments table."

Response to cynatnite (Original post)
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 08:00 PM
JaneyVee (3,907 posts)
6. I have some pretty weird dreams.

Drink more water and turn down the AC.  Oh, and lay off the peyote.

Response to cynatnite (Original post)
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 08:23 PM
Egalitarian Thug (7,485 posts)
10. Another academic advocating for post secondary education's devolution into overpriced

vocational training. Cause yeah, the world needs as many investment mangers as it can produce...

And for the particularly slow authoritarians here, if you don't get your finance degree from the right schools and make friends or be related to the right people, you are not going to be the next hedge fund superstar or bankster, no matter how far you push your head up the bosses ass.

Or, you can avoid the whole wall street quagmire, go to work at a local bank, get to know the owner and how he works, and regulators that you will never see at a bigger bank and then succeed  because you know more about how things work than any paper pusher on wall street.  It's been done.  It's probably even more common than the wall street route.

Response to cynatnite (Original post)
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 09:09 PM
 daleo (19,953 posts)
14. Muddle through and make the best of things

Not inspirational, but pretty much describes most people's lives.

A dream is like a river, ever changing as it goes, and a dreamer is just a vessel, that must follow where it goes.

Response to cynatnite (Original post)
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 09:42 PM
 Shankapotomus (2,355 posts)
19. I agree with the professor

Especially concerning my own dreams which tend to be so outrageously implausible it would take a multiple conversion of circumstances for one to happen. This has made me conclude there's nothing wrong with dreams, but they are more about luck and being in the right place at the right time and not something under our total control. I think it is the motion picture industry that has confused us about the difference between what constitutes a dream and just something achievable by the exertion of effort and work. Depending on your starting point in life and surrounding environment, some dreams are just not achievable no matter how much effort you apply.

I much prefer "Follow your peace and contentment." and if a dream happens, it happens. But personal peace and contentment is usually within reach of everyone who is free to act and once they become aware that's all they really need.

So don't sit along the shore line, and say you're satisfied, choose to dare the rapids, and dance upon the tide.

Response to cynatnite (Original post)
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 10:02 PM
 Curmudgeoness (10,573 posts)
24. It is true that it is very rare to actually survive

following your dreams. Better advise would be to make the best of whatever direction your life takes you, and always find time to enjoy your free time with your dreams, loves, hobbies. This way, it is not impossible to stumble into that perfect career/job, but it saves people from feeling like a failure when they do not attain that dream.

That which is easily attained is held in little esteem.

Response to cynatnite (Original post)
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 10:04 PM
 Douglas Carpenter (15,191 posts)
25. well obviously she is right - at least for the overwhelming majority of people

There just are not enough avenues for the vast majority of people to make a respectable living that will sustain them during most of their working life doing what they really, really love. The world just does not work that way.

If someone can find something tolerable that pays them a decent living - that is doing better than the most people.  

Give up early, Give up often.  Even the French aren't that pathetic.

Response to cynatnite (Original post)
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 10:22 PM
Manifestor_of_Light (16,361 posts)
28. Our sick society only values making money.

It does not value creativity or artistry of any kind. Our society values conformity and buying stuff. It chews highly trained people up and spits them out.

Also, just because you get a business degree or law degree does not mean you will get a job. I earned a Juris Doctor and was unable to get a job with it. It made me even more overqualified than I was when I earned a B.A.

 

I was not encouraged to major in anything I was good at. I should have gotten an art degree but that wasn't allowed as it was "not practical".

That's funny. I met a person who travels to just about every local event you can think of finding.  She's an artist.  $15 will get you a caricature that she can do in about ten minutes.  She also does more serious work that depends on type and detail, but can run much higher.  She's happy, and she's living off the work she loves doing.

Response to cynatnite (Original post)
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 10:24 PM
FarCenter (13,166 posts)
30. Colleges should stop saying "Follow your dreams" when they enter college

If the student has been following their dreams for four years of college, they're screwed already.

At commencement time, they will commence falling off the cliff of dashed expectations.

Yeah, how dare a speaker tell somebody that if they really want something, go get it.

Response to cynatnite (Original post)
Mon Jun 3, 2013, 12:34 AM
undergroundpanther (11,557 posts)
45. This whole society

Last edited Mon Jun 3, 2013, 12:34 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

Is a set up to fail,if you have any moral core,any compassion or genuine wisdom.This culture grinds up the gentle ones,destroys the good heart,kills the compassion,and strangles the dreamer. It slowly murders the soul.

I hate this culture,and when I was young and tried to be part of it it traumatized me.I never will try to be and do what I am not again. I'm not evil enough or mean enough to value success in a world I cannot cope with where everything has a price tag hanging off it.

So says a person that never even dared to try.  Go back to sponging off your mom and society, sociopath.

There are a few that are telling the other that the professor is an idiot, but they are outnumbered.  Anyway, I think I'll leave any DUmmies that happen by, a music video from a fellow Democrat that followed his dreams.
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OlkiqN5LyE[/youtube]

[Big Dog]

Ah, look a newly hatched DUmmie.  Wait, they do hatch, right?

The proglodytes crawl out from under rocks. Biologists presume they are hatched prior to that.

[JohnnyReb]

DUmmie said.....Start doing a little research on anti-depressants and their alternatives so that you are ready when it is your turn to take the plunge in this decaying culture.

....and who made it that way?

[GOBUCKS]

Professor: ‘Follow your dreams’ is cruel advice
With graduation season in full swing, students across the nation are being told the key to success is to “follow your dreams.”

But Professor Lisa Wade of Occidental College argues the idealistic cliche has no real value to students — and verges on being harmful.

The guy is 100% exactly right.

Students get "hobby" confused with "career".

That's how they end up with a fine arts degreee, a huge student debt, and a job at Jiffy Lube.

[ColonelCarrots]

I don`t have a dream. I have a calling by God. It is much better than any dream I could have.

[Big Dog]

I don`t have a dream. I have a calling by God. It is much better than any dream I could have.

How do you tell the difference?

 

[ColonelCarrots]

How do you tell the difference?

 

You don`t wake up one day and go ``You know I want to deal with depressing stuff all day.``

[Karin]

Vagabond, I see your point, but I also see the Professor's.  That book that came out years ago, "Do what you love, the money will follow" was irresponsible moonbattery.  You have to be pragmatic about it, because the bills are relentless.  I couldn't pay them dinking around with flowers, even though that's what I love to do.

[USA4ME]

I don't think ‘Follow your dreams’ means what this prof and the primitives believes it means.  If following your dreams results in an occupation that also puts food on the table, good for you.  But following your dreams doesn't mean you won't have to work somewhere you don't particularly like.

But continuing to follow your dreams can mean you never give up trying to figure out how to turn your passsion into a career that would pay the bills.  These dolts seem to have the idea that if you can't immediately follow your dreams, that means you should just cast them to the side and forget about it.  Then again, I would expect nothing less from a group of self-defeatist who want the world to be handed to them on a silver platter.

.

[Big Dog]

You don`t wake up one day and go ``You know I want to deal with depressing stuff all day.``

Are you sure? Psychologists, grief counselors, hospice nurses, and social workers could say the same thing.

How would you tell the difference between "having a dream" and "being called"?

[DumbAss Tanker]

The guy is 100% exactly right.

Students get "hobby" confused with "career".

That's how they end up with a fine arts degreee, a huge student debt, and a job at Jiffy Lube.

Yeah, that's my thought, too...the original speaker has a great point (Completely misconstrued by the DUmmies to fit their own depressing worldview, of course), which is that 'Following your dream' is why we don't have enough technicians, engineers and scientists, and waaaay too many unemployed history, English, fine art, anthropology, psychology, political 'Science' (Cough), and 'General studies' majors laying around their parents' basements.

[ColonelCarrots]

Are you sure? Psychologists, grief counselors, hospice nurses, and social workers could say the same thing.

How would you tell the difference between "having a dream" and "being called"?

Where I am going is out of obedience to God. Where I wanted to go is something I wanted.

I cannot speak for secular jobs, but in the ministry you don`t up and go and do what you think you want God wants you to do. You have to know.

[Big Dog]

Where I am going is out of obedience to God. Where I wanted to go is something I wanted.

I cannot speak for secular jobs, but in the ministry you don`t up and go and do what you think you want God wants you to do. You have to know.

And how do you distinguish between  your own desire and your perception of God's desire? in other words, how do you know your "calling" is not your "dream"?

[Dori]

You have to be pragmatic about it, because the bills are relentless.  I couldn't pay them dinking around with flowers, even though that's what I love to do.

I agree.  I love dinkering around with flowers too.  Designing is my passion, but I also have an accounting background.  I was only able to be in the floral business for a few years because it just isn't that profitable or dependable.  I did weddings etc on the side to appease my creative side, but the accounting is pays the bills.   

 

[98ZJUSMC]

Response to hunter (Reply #3)
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 10:19 PM
blahblah98 (5 posts)
27. I think this is what Prof. Wade is talking about...

I quit my job of 9yrs to go back to school and bring high-tech from engineering to the business world. I spent all my savings & maxed out my credit cards, but after 3 1/2 years, I started a company. I thought I'd made it. Then my partners fired me, and eventually ran the company to bankruptcy liquidation so I was left with nothing. The high-tech industry crashed, and I bounced between jobs, employed about 1/2 time. Stress wore down my family, my wife was angry & depressed all the time, my kids grew up under-performing with fewer opportunities than I'd had. We ate from the food-bank, borrowed from family to pay rent.

Finally after 15 hellish years I got a corporate job at a good, stable company. I'm paying my debts now, even bought my first house a couple months ago at the age of 50. My wife & I'll be working well into our 70s.

So I've come to believe that following your dreams applies to the rich and fortunate few. For the rest of us working-class folk it's a giant gamble with your future, the odds are not in your favor and the downside may be devastating. The media loves to play up the myths of the American Dream / Horatio Alger / Social Mobility, but the reality is we hear about the 1% successes but not the 99% failures.

Successful entrepreneurs sometimes talk about the dozens of times they failed before they succeeded once. How many among us can afford to fail a dozen times before that one success? I failed nearly that many times. Now, success to me is that corporate job I left nearly 20 years ago.

I think the brutal reality of today's college graduate job market is what Professor Wade is talking about: Do pursue your interests, but be realistic, pragmatic and always have a backup plan. My son in college likes & does well at history, but that is one of THE lowest-paying majors; why pay $150k for something that will eventually pay $40k/yr? He's logical and reasonably good at math, so it's a STEM major for him. There's a fine line between a dream and a nightmare.

Like to try this   again, NU(D)Ummie?  Didn't DNC Operative School teach you to proofread the timeline of your made-up bullshit?  New corporate hire at 50?

 

[ColonelCarrots]

And how do you distinguish between  your own desire and your perception of God's desire? in other words, how do you know your "calling" is not your "dream"?

I wanted to be a pilot, but I can`t since I can`t see. So I wanted to be an aircraft mechanic, but then I was led to be a chaplain. I prayed about it. Lord put a burden in my heart for soldiers and to help them.

Though this would be a great discussion to have with the pastor.

[Bad Dog]

Since most Dummie's dream is to sit on their fat ass eating Cheetos & posting on DU,  I expect all except Skinner are pretty much f***** as the professor says.

[Freeper]

I would think the super intelligent beings at DU would be smart enough to figure out how to achieve their dreams.

[jukin]

In Other Words; Welcome to 0bama's America, a fundamentally changed America.

[Big Dog]

I wanted to be a pilot, but I can`t since I can`t see. So I wanted to be an aircraft mechanic, but then I was led to be a chaplain. I prayed about it. Lord put a burden in my heart for soldiers and to help them.

Though this would be a great discussion to have with the pastor.

You should have that discussion with your pastor!

then I was led to be a chaplain. I prayed about it. Lord put a burden in my heart for soldiers and to help them.

This is that part to think about.

You said "I was led" and "Lord put a burden in my heart". How do you know these things are true? How can you be sure it's not your own strong desire, which you interpret to be God's actions?

[Wineslob]

The guy is 100% exactly right.

Students get "hobby" confused with "career".

That's how they end up with a fine arts degreee, a huge student debt, and a job at Jiffy Lube.

Exactly.

DUmmies, my 15 YO daughter wants to get into the crime field, IE: CSI type stuff. However she understands that there are ALLOT of different sub-catagories she can specialize in, and ALLOT of money to be made.

No Liberal Studies, Wymns Studies, or other stupid Liberal degrees that are worthless. My kid is smarter than all of you idiots put together.    Assholes.

[GOBUCKS]

You can follow your dream as long as there's a responsible adult working in the real world who will support you for the rest of your life.

So DUmmy kpete can follow her dream to an artsy hobby, while her husband pays.

So DUmmy Bill Pitt can follow his dream to an alcoholic's early grave, while his mother pays.

So DUmmy Rob McGrath can follow his dream as an unemployed, talentless cartoonist, while his wife pays.

So the chinless 'Bama butterball can follow her dream of treasonous anti-American cinematography while her parents pay.

So nutcase nadin can follow her dream to become the world's foremost unemployed authority on everything, while the taxpayers pay.

And then there's always that 0.001% who find a living wage following their dream.

All the rest who follow their dream are swamped with student loan debt, trying to stave off bankruptcy, working at Jiffy Lube.

Good luck, dreamers.

[RayRaytheSBS]

You can follow your dream as long as there's a responsible adult working in the real world who will support you for the rest of your life.

So DUmmy kpete can follow her dream to an artsy hobby, while her husband pays.

So DUmmy Bill Pitt can follow his dream to an alcoholic's early grave, while his mother pays.

So DUmmy Rob McGrath can follow his dream as an unemployed, talentless cartoonist, while his wife pays.

So the chinless 'Bama butterball can follow her dream of treasonous anti-American cinematography while her parents pay.

So nutcase nadin can follow her dream to become the world's foremost unemployed authority on everything, while the taxpayers pay.

And then there's always that 0.001% who find a living wage following their dream.

All the rest who follow their dream are swamped with student loan debt, trying to stave off bankruptcy, working at Jiffy Lube.

Good luck, dreamers.

Jiffy Lube sounds too dirty and too much like work for any of the DUches to consider GOBUCKS. That would be beneath them.

[Karin]

Big Dog, that is why they call it faith.  It can't be "proven."  That would be science.  

I guess I followed my dream OK.  I wanted to stand on my own two feet, make my own money, my own decisions, and my own domicile.  I didn't want to be so beholden to someone else that they could tell me what to do.  And so, one needs to build a structure for that sort of thing.  A good career.  

[Vagabond]

Vagabond, I see your point, but I also see the Professor's.  That book that came out years ago, "Do what you love, the money will follow" was irresponsible moonbattery.  You have to be pragmatic about it, because the bills are relentless.  I couldn't pay them dinking around with flowers, even though that's what I love to do.

Karin, it isn't that I don't understand.  It's that if you want to be a nurse, sooner rather than later you are going to change bedpans, and it's all part of paying the dues.  There is an entire industry around flowers, from nurseries to the small businessman (or woman) that plants them in yards to the flower shop that makes arrangements, it may not pay everything one would want, though.

I wanted to start my own business.  I actually did so twice as a teenager, but wanted something more.  I went in the Army then got out and started working for a major defense contractor.  Along the way I let myself not care about my wants or dreams because of the desires of my employers and the apparent needs of my family had more of a priority.  It was all the work of a fool.  I should have pursued my dreams from the start, along the way the needs of my family would have been met and I would have be happier.  Instead, here I am after eleven years, struggling hard to get a business off the ground.  I don't have a contract this week.  Right now two contracts (about two weeks) worth of work a month is what I'm getting.  It pays the bills and looks like it will start to grow.