primitives discuss kitchen layouts

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/115725896

Oh my.

I thought I should post a primitive campfire, to remind the primitives franksolich is still watching their seditious activities; that franksolich is still around.

Laura PourMeADrink (15,265 posts)   Sun May 19, 2013, 04:26 PM

Kitchen Table or Island

There is something just so nostalgic about a kitchen table in the middle of the kitchen (throwing in a screen door while I am at it)
 
But, an island with bar stools is very cool too.

I am in the process of designing my kitchen and can't decide between the two. I am paralyzed with indecision.
 
I have yet to see any plans or pics of a good combo of both, because if you have an island, it means you can't have the table in the middle of the room.
 
I was just reading a blog from a chef and kitchen designer. He said that if you truly truly love cooking, you don't want to be in a kitchen adjoining a den/living area. Because true chefs love to get lost in what they are doing and having others around is a distraction. Not to mention everyone seeing the mess.

TygrBright (12,835 posts)    Sun May 19, 2013, 04:39 PM

2. Depends on what you want it for.

Are you looking for a work surface, or a rest-your-elbows-on-it-with-a-mug-of-coffee-in-your-hand surface? If the first, go for the island and bar stools, they do offer better ergonomics if you're paring veggies, mixing batter, etc.
 
If the second, go for the table. Bar stools are cursed uncomfortable and the older you get, the more uncomfortable they get.

Ugly can't help but butt in:

Warpy (69,301 posts)    Sun May 19, 2013, 04:43 PM

3. I agree with the chef, I loathe open plan kitchens

I've lived with several and know all too well the joy of looking at all the filthy pots and pans while trying to enjoy dinner and guests without thinking too much about all the work ahead of me. I also dislike being interrupted by non cooks who want me to drop everything and find something for them. It sucks.
 
"Kitchen as theater" leaves me cold, too. There is no surer guarantee of losing everything on the floor than trying to show off in front of guests.
 
The only open kitchen/island plan I can stand is one where the island has a wall with a narrow shelf on it facing the rest of the room. That hides the mess in the kitchen but allows guests to park a drink while they talk to me.
 
I also prefer a table rather than an island in a closed kitchen. Not only is it more comfortable for informal meals, it also provides a lower work surface for things like kneading bread, meaning superior ergonomics for most women. It does need to be a funky harvest table, though, not fine furniture. It's going to work for a living.

winter is coming (1,326 posts)    Sun May 19, 2013, 07:08 PM

8. Also, if you're doing something like scooping out cookie dough, or breaking nuts by hand, it's nice to sit down for a few minutes.

Warpy (69,301 posts)    Sun May 19, 2013, 07:33 PM

9. I use an ice cream scoop for drop cookies and it's so fast that I just keep standing up.

About the only thing I sit down for is putting out 200 or so jiao tze by hand, probably because the people who taught me how to do them did them sitting down.

Okay.

<<<stumped.

What the fudge is "jiao tze"?

I'll bet it's just an exotic name for some ordinary food.

Freddie (1,455 posts)   Sun May 19, 2013, 10:43 PM

11. Yes!! And I have an open kitchen

I often hate it. When I'm having a big holiday or company dinner I DON'T want an audience while cooking and that's always what happens! Plus even though my kitchen is "open" the actual working part is too small for more than 1 person so offers of "help" while well-meaning just get in my way. Things I did not think about when we bought the house. First world problems I guess.

Since I hate having an audience while cooking, I try to do everything well ahead of time before people arrive. I think my ideal kitchen was the house I grew up in which had a separate kitchen with a pass-thru "hole" to the dining room.

Ugly just can't shut her pie-hole:

Warpy (69,301 posts)   Mon May 20, 2013, 01:23 AM

12. Pass throughs are OK

but in my completely closed kitchens, I'll call for help and send them out to the dining area with stuff on trays. That works, too.
 
The first thing my mother did with the pass through in their last house was block it off.
 
Now you know where I get this stuff.

Phentex (7,937 posts)    Sun May 19, 2013, 06:28 PM

7. I have a table for 8 but it's not in the middle. I have a small island made from a table...

it's a 60's kitchen that used to have a set of upper and lower cabinets that separated the kitchen from the eat in part. What did they call that area?

At some point, the owners removed the upper cabinets and left an awkward peninsula of cabinets sticking out into the kitchen. We eventually removed most of the lower cabinets and added a bench seat across that "room" and that's where the big table is now so it feels like it's in the kitchen. We turned the old farmhouse table into an island which we use every day because nothing is where it's supposed to be. The stove is clear across the room from the sink. The fridge is in an awkward spot on an opposite wall. The island fills the hole and houses cookbooks, trash can, cutting boards. I've always thought a small sink on the wall near the stove would be pretty sweet but there's no water over there.
 
It's true, though, that people do love to gather in a kitchen. People always want to sit around the big table!

Lugnut (8,725 posts)    Mon May 20, 2013, 02:16 AM

13. I like a table.

My house was built during the era of eat-in kitchens so I don't have a "dining room". It's a real pain during the holidays when there are too many people to fit in this little house. No matter what we do friends and family members who visit end up in the kitchen.

dem in texas (135 posts)    Sun May 26, 2013, 12:56 PM

14. One Butt Kitchen

I live in a house built in the 1960's and have a long narrow "One Butt Kitchen". That said, when I am busy cooking and I am a serious foodie, I don't want anyone else in the kitchen with me. I once lived in a house that had a big country kitchen and we had a long table at one end. I really liked that, not so much for the cooking, but the table became a place for friends to sit down for a cup of coffee. Lots of homework was done on that table and many, many games of hearts were played there.

Laura PourMeADrink (15,265 posts)    Wed May 29, 2013, 10:35 PM

17. LOL "one butt kitchen". There is just something so homey about a kitchen table that an island bar can never replace, huh. Maybe it's just that's it's attached to such good memories for many of us. Well, maybe not the homework - but Hearts around the table sounds great ! Family meals, thanksgiving, cards and games, dying easter eggs, preparing meals ! Think you made me decide for sure ... kitchen table over island.

Hmmmmm.

The cbayer primitive must be back on the boat:

cbayer (120,054 posts)   Wed May 29, 2013, 11:54 PM

18. My most favorite kitchen was in New Orleans.

I had a large island that "separated" the kitchen from the family room. It had my stove top built into it. I could be on one side cooking, while my guests/family were on the other side. They were out of my way, but I could still be in the mix.
 
I had bar stools around it, so others could sit and we could eat there as well.

My boat is set up in a somewhat similar way. My cooking area is very small and accommodates only me, but everyone else is right there, basically in the same room.
 
The mess? Fuggidaboutit. Cooking is messy and that is part of it's appeal, imo

[Big Dog]

cbayer (120,054 posts)   Wed May 29, 2013, 11:54 PM

My boat is set up in a somewhat similar way. My cooking area is very small and accommodates only me, but everyone else is right there, basically in the same room.

cbayer is too modest. Why didn't she tell her fellow DUmmies that the eccentric English husband put a grill on the boat, just for her?

[franksolich]

cbayer is too modest. Why didn't she tell her fellow DUmmies that the eccentric English husband put a grill on the boat, just for her?

All I have to say is that it's a good thing the cbayer primitive's a small woman.

If she were a big woman, she wouldn't fit into that boat's galley.

[USA4ME]

Sounds like a lot of expense for money that could best be going to the poor.  Why are the primitives so selfish? They should downgrade their home and take the extra money to give to the poor and needy.  That would be the liberal/progressive thing to do.

They start doing things like that, and I might begin to take them seriously and listen to them.  But as long as they continue to think only of themselves and their want and needs, then why should I want to listen to a bunch of hypocrites?

.

[franksolich]

Sounds like a lot of expense for money that could best be going to the poor.  Why are the primitives so selfish? They should downgrade their home and take the extra money to give to the poor and needy.  That would be the liberal/progressive thing to do.

They start doing things like that, and I might begin to take them seriously and listen to them.  But as long as they continue to think only of themselves and their want and needs, then why should I want to listen to a bunch of hypocrites?

Good points, sir; I've been asking those questions ever since I first discovered primitives.

For some odd reason though, I haven't ever gotten an answer.

I suspect that the primitives really want is for you and I to give up our own creature comforts to feed the hungry, while the primitives go on their merry way, being as selfish as ever.

[Vagabond]

This isn't the first time the primitives prattled on about kitchen design and not liking open plan kitchens.

I disagree with them.  I like open designs.  It isn't about kitchen as theater, it's about being able to still be part of the family while you cook.  Having an enclosed kitchen makes about as much sense as having an enclosure around your grill.

[Big Dog]

Good points, sir; I've been asking those questions ever since I first discovered primitives.

For some odd reason though, I haven't ever gotten an answer.

I suspect that the primitives really want is for you and I to give up our own creature comforts to feed the hungry, while the primitives go on their merry way, being as selfish as ever.

You are correct as usual, my friend.

You, I and our fellow Makers are William Graham Sumner's Forgotten Men:  As soon as A observes something which seems to him to be wrong, from which X is suffering, A talks it over with B, and A and B then propose to get a law passed to remedy the evil and help X. Their law always proposes to determine what C shall do for X. (1883)

We are "C", the Forgotten Men.

[ExGeeEye]

What the fudge is "jiao tze"?

"The boiled version of what in English are better known as potstickers, these are balls of meat and/or vegetables wrapped in dough and then boiled until they are done, like ravioli or piroshki or gyoza."

[debk]

"The boiled version of what in English are better known as potstickers, these are balls of meat and/or vegetables wrapped in dough and then boiled until they are done, like ravioli or piroshki or gyoza."

Wallll gollleeee , when you live in the South, them thar Asians thinks yer too stoopid to know what a jiao tze is, so they jes' calls 'em potstickers. They sure is good though.... 

 

[GOBUCKS]

cbayer (120,054 posts)   Wed May 29, 2013, 11:54 PM
My boat is set up in a somewhat similar way. My cooking area is very small and accommodates only me, but everyone else is right there, basically in the same room.

Well, yeah. On her tiny boat, if anyone is more than ten feet from her Coleman campstove they're in the water.

They're also within ten feet if they're working on the boat's engine, or sleeping, or using the toilet.

cbayer the thread slayer lives a great life.

It's the nautical equivalent of poor stupid Beth's little humpbacked camping trailer out in the California desert.

[diesel driver]

Well, yeah. On her tiny boat, if anyone is more than ten feet from her Coleman campstove they're in the water.

They're also within ten feet if they're working on the boat's engine, or sleeping, or using the toilet.

cbayer the thread slayer lives a great life.

It's the nautical equivalent of poor stupid Beth's little humpbacked camping trailer out in the California desert.

Yeah, but she's got one helluva pool!

(Just watch out for sharks!)   

[franksolich]

Well, yeah. On her tiny boat, if anyone is more than ten feet from her Coleman campstove they're in the water.

They're also within ten feet if they're working on the boat's engine, or sleeping, or using the toilet.

cbayer the thread slayer lives a great life.

It's the nautical equivalent of poor stupid Beth's little humpbacked camping trailer out in the California desert.

I'm still confused that they on one hand insist they live on a boat to save the planet, but then they're always gone ashore, traveling here-and-there and using up more resources than if they'd just lived in a normal house.