Omaha Steve (35,825 posts)
Now Venezuela is running out of toilet paper
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fasttense (14,436 posts)
1. It's amazing the kind of pressure the elite corporate capitalists can put on a country
Just because they don't like the kind of government they have.
Don't the Koch Bros. run a paper company?
dotymed (4,397 posts)
6. It is so indicative
of oligarchic hegemony. They will do anything to topple a govt. that actually wants to help their poor and bring equality through a Socialist economy and governance. Especially a country with large reserves of natural resources.
It has pissed the oligarchs off terribly that Venezuela has helped the poor globally through their heating oil give- aways. "They know that if left alone (treated like other countries), Venezuela would show the world that capitalism is only meant to enrich the few.
No capitalistic, "let them eat cake" country would suffer these shortages of basic necessities. Hey, they can afford to pay the capitalists....
"CONFESSIONS OF AN ECONOMIC HIT MAN", BY John Perkins, is a must read if you want to understand the depths that capitalists (America especially) will go to, to control an economy that is resource rich.
If communism is so awesome make your own goddam shit-wipe!
Shit-wiper.
msanthrope (16,485 posts)
10. Could you explain how 'oligarchic hegemony' made the toilet paper go away?
Show the steps?
dotymed (4,397 posts)
13. Sure msanthrope.
Last edited Thu May 16, 2013, 07:37 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
Did you not read about the MSM using propaganda to create artificial demand on a staple that is actually
plentiful? It is done In America everyday to cause "oil shortages", etc.. by the oligarchs. They bet on the future of a commodity and drive the prices up (pure profit), which actually DOES create a (price-based) shortage.
Dreamer Tatum (7,142 posts)
40. Suppose that steaming stack of horseshit is true
If there was an actual market for toilet paper, instead of a Chavez lackey deciding how people wipe their asses, the "artificial demand" would be met with "actual supply".
Oooooh, such FREEDOM they have. In exchange for some company not making a few bolivars of profit, people agree to wipe their asses with pages from books. How EVOLVED.
dotymed (4,397 posts)
90. Have some more kool-aid.
instead of a Chavez lackey deciding how people wipe their asses, the "artificial demand" would be met with "actual supply".
IF you read the story, they are flooding the market with toilet paper (some oligarch is smiling) to stop the panic buying and subsequent price gouging that this propaganda caused.
Oooooh, such FREEDOM they have. In exchange for some company not making a few bolivars of profit, people agree to wipe their asses with pages from books. How EVOLVED
You are really informed.....it is impressive.
I did miss (at first read, you're reference to PROFIT).....wow, now that IS important.
Dreamer Tatum (7,142 posts)
108. If a government is so inept that it can't keep asses wiped
it's not wonder that Venezuela is so inept at everything else.
It's the PRICE CONTROLS. THEY DO NOT ****ING WORK.
Know what's probably happening? The government toilet paper manufacturer (probably a Chavez monkey) is required to sell at the government-mandated price. This causes said Chavez monkey to sell X rolls at that price, which go to market, and the REST of the production is sold on the black market at MUCH HIGHER prices. Chavez monkey makes money for himself, kicks a cut to other Chavez monkeys to keep quiet, and they all have a nice thick steak while rank and file Venezuelans are forced to use their government-issued copies of The Communist Manifesto for its most valuable purpose. The result? Wealth accrues to Chavez monkeys instead of capitalists (which, let's face it, is the point of all this "socialism"), shelves are bare due to the contrived shortage, and people buy more than they would because they're afraid the Chavez monkey will want to divert MORE to the black market.
(if you scoff at that, see Union, Soviet.)
Meanwhile, in sane countries that don't mind if shareholders of a corporation earn a profit so long as they have access to plentiful asswipe, life goes on as it should.
Upthread I made a joke, then I got here:
msanthrope (16,485 posts)
70. Hmm...see, what you say doesn't really add up.
You say that toilet paper is 'actually plentiful.' But how do you prove that? Do your supply/demand estimates come from the government?
freshwest (31,398 posts)
84. IDK all that, but most paper goods manufacturing is owned by the Koch brothers, isn't it?
At least that's the way the lists of boycotting Koch products read.
And not provable, but American ex-pats to Venezuela I've talked to - carry on about Charles Koch like he's the Second Coming. They work in the oil business there and I consider them idiots.
We know oil producers were screwing people out of heating oil here years ago. But Chavez sold it to the Americans cheaper, gaining some fans in so doing, including RFK, Jr.
It could happen, but doesn't seem logical that they are having shortages from foreign sources. To improve the standards of living of a country requires a manufacturing base.
Venezuela has oil to pay for building facilities, and likely has trees, cows, corn fields. They've got people to work, so why would they need to import milk, butter, cornmeal or toilet paper when they can make it there?
The theory that Americans are harming the economy of Venezuela doesn't add up here. IIRC, we are their largest client for their oil, so it's not like we aren't getting along that well. Only the media says we hate each other.
treestar (40,454 posts)
42. alternative
what did people do before the invention of toilet paper? there's gotta be something. Leaves?
melm00se (2,426 posts)
59. pages from the Sears catalog
Obama uses the Constitution.
Peace Patriot (21,523 posts)
62. Interesting analysis, except that Venezuela's economy has been growing at 5+%...
...post-Bush Junta worldwide depression, and grew at a sizzling 10% for 5 straight years, pre-Bush Junta depression. Most of this growth is in the private sector and not including oil. (And Venezuela has had no trouble attracting oil investors, after Exxon Mobil quit the field in a snit over having to pay for social programs.)
My conclusion: These shortages in Venezuela are mainly caused by business HOARDERS. They've used that tactic before and I think they are using it now. I'm with the Venezuelan government on this. This is part of a concerted rightwing effort to destabilize the country.
A secondary reason is that the Venezuelan majority now has money to spend (high employment rate, good jobs, good wages/benefits, pensions for all, including street vendors and full-time mothers). As with the so-called energy "crisis" in Venezuela the problem is prosperity--higher demand for energy as the upwardly mobile poor class buys appliances they never could afford before, and are placing high demands on many product lines, including food and household items.
Oh my, the LIES that the Associated Pukes, the Economyst, Rotters and the Wall Street Urinal, and their ilk, tell about Venezuela!
In the recent Gallup Well-being poll, Venezuelans rated their own country FIFTH IN THE WORLD on their own sense of well-being and future prospects. 5th in the world! Our benighted corporate rulers are bent on killing that optimism, that upward mobility, that wealth-sharing, that prosperity for the many.
That is why we have Associated Pukes headlines about Venezuelan toilet paper.
Nye Bevan (10,817 posts)
100. 5th in the world. But they having nothing to wipe their asses with (nt)
hack89 (21,248 posts)
117. With rampant inflation, declining oil production and a skyrocketing murder rate.
Their inflation rate has been above 20% for six straight years, with a forecast of 30% for 2013.
Oil production has steadily fallen since 1997 - without an increase in oil prices their economy is headed for recession. If oil prices actually fall, they are royally screwed - oil accounts for 90% of foreign cash inflow and 50% of state revenue.
If the murder rate in America is indicative of a sick society, consider that Venezuela has the 5th highest murder rate in the world. They have 15,000 murders a year - America has 12,500 with one tenth the population
Bo (1,049 posts)
82. The Vzla. Govt. is the ONLY entity allowed to IMPORT Into Vzla. the dictator controls everything.
Vzla. Now imports CORN and RICE before they never did. This is classic of all dictatorships. Before they had more than enough to feed the entire nation, now they import food.
Stupid is as Stupid does.
dotymed (4,397 posts)
93. Your post suggests that before
Chavez and his programs to feed and shelter the poor while making a more fair wealth distribution, that the people who could not afford CORN and RICE were able to purchase it.......
USA#1...GO, GO, GO, YEAAAA! capitalism, the BEST system in the universe....yeaaa! 
hack89 (21,248 posts)
26. Their biggest problem is declining oil production
During his presidency, Chavez diverted much of that potential wealth to Venezuelan consumers in the form of cheap gasoline (18 cents per gallon or less). He propped up the Castro regime in Cuba, and he offered Venezuelan oil on highly preferential terms to 18 Caribbean and Latin American countries through an energy alliance he called PetroCaribe.
Oil production in Venezuela declined sharply under the Chavez administration, however, largely due to inadequate investment in the energy infrastructure, inefficiencies in oil industry management, and the replacement of skilled oil technicians and managers with political loyalists.
The drop in oil production — more than 7 percent just in the first quarter of 2013 — is severe enough to call into question whether the Chavista oil welfare programs can be sustained. For the Caribbean and Latin American countries that have been benefiting from the PetroCaribe program, it is a time of great anxiety.
"In 1997, PDVSA was producing 3.5 million barrels a day," notes Piñon, now an energy analyst at the University of Texas at Austin. "Today they are about 2.8 million barrels a day. It shows you what a bad job the Venezuelan government has done in managing their national oil company."
http://www.npr.org/2013/04/11/176843567/venezuela-s-next-leader-faces-tough-choice-on-oil-program
They are screwed if oil prices remain steady. They are really screwed if oil prices go down.
So, in other words, commies prop themselves up with fairy tales of capitalist oligarchs buying power.
Then the commies get into power, seize the means of production and attempt to buy power according to the stories they scare themselves with.
All the while they fail to realize you actually have to pull a profit.
Judi Lynn made a LOOOOONG post
But who cares.
Judi Lynn (77,575 posts)
36. What a shock, a government the US hates having shortages. Amazing.
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Bacchus4.0 (1,966 posts)
37. The shortage of toilet paper is a crap article and should be wiped out
As you know the US controls the toilet paper market. Latin American nations obviously are incapable of producing their own supply (well, at least one, or two make that). All products everywhere are managed by the US and the US decides where and who they go to.
Shortages of milk, chicken, beef, corn flour, and other food items is one thing but no toilet paper and thats sure to raise a stink.
viva la revolucion!!!
Dreamer Tatum (7,142 posts)
109. Venezuela was once a wonderful, wonderful place. nt
Comrade Grumpy (3,359 posts)
112. Back in the good old days. When they just killed uppity poor people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caracazo
The Caracazo or sacudón is the name given to the wave of protests, riots and looting and ensuing massacre that occurred on 27 February 1989 in the Venezuelan capital Caracas and surrounding towns. The clashes resulted in a death toll of hundreds of people with some reports of 3,000 dead mostly at the hands of security forces. The riots and protests were mainly against free market reform and increases in gasoline prices.
The word Caracazo is the name of the city plus the suffix -azo, which implies a blow and/or magnitude. It could therefore be translated as something like "the Caracas smash" or "the big one in Caracas". The name was inspired by the Bogotazo, a massive riot in neighboring Colombia in 1948 that played a pivotal role in that country's history. Sacudón is from sacudir "to shake", and therefore means something along the lines of "the day that shook the country" (see Spanish nouns: Other suffixes.)
Dreamer Tatum (7,142 posts)
115. Yeah...at least now everyone gets killed.
More democratic that way.
Leave it to a Chavez lickspittle to drag out their cache of weblinks to refute the slightest remark.
socialsecurityisAAA (120 posts)
54. Unnecessary wasteful item.
We have washable diapers. Why not washable toilet cloth?
Disposable toilet paper should be a relic of a society that cared little about the environment, not something we still use.
RebelOne (26,815 posts)
55. Hope you are joking.
Washable diapers are rarely used nowadays. Why do you think Pampers are so popular?
socialsecurityisAAA (120 posts)
60. Not remotely.
Capitalists only consider something useful if it needs to be bought regularly. Most people realize the capitalist consumption centric model is responsible for the economic mess we are in.
Reusable durable long lasting goods are the solution.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014484677
