This much stupid must be recognized

[zeitgeist]

I had thought to post this as a post that stand alone but decided it might have merit enough for its own thread. This could be criminal stupidity or just the result of extreme liberal public education.  Take your choice.


http://upload.democraticunderground.com/10022759793

First we have the op analogy which I confess makes very little sense save to intimate some have big bucks (50k?).

edhopper (6,561 posts)

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Re:Koch Bros. Let's say your worth $50,000
  
You have a nice little portfolio investments and savings. (I think that is an amount most middle class people can relate to)
 But you could donate to a few politicians and a party that would make sure you kept more of you money, paid less taxes and increased you wealth.
And giving them just $1 makes a big difference.
That is what it is like for the Kochs when they give $1 million to a politician whether it's through PACs or Astroturf orgs.
It is chump change for them to destroy this country for their greed.
 

I read the op, scratched my head then read the response.  Holy cow what a load of BS JDPriestly puts down, enough to fertilize the great plain.

This then is the money shot as they use to say in the pool hall.

Response to edhopper (Original post)
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 04:11 PM

Star Member JDPriestly (37,361 posts)

1. I posted this in response to someone who said that taxes should not be raised to require
 
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Last edited Fri Apr 26, 2013, 04:14 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

those who work hard and accumulate money and run businesses to pay for those who don't work.

It's about what protects the right to property.

I would like to remind all DUers that, contrary to the teachings of the right-wing and corporations, the right to private property is not "natural." The right to private property exists by force. If someone steals something from you, you can only get it back by persuasion or by force.

Who or what enforces property rights in our country? The police who are controlled by the government.

In feudal societies, a hierarchical structure of nobility and everybody else controls the government and owns the property. The nobility enforces its own property rights.

Our government is democratic meaning that the people as a whole control it (supposedly). Thus, it is the people as a whole through the government that enforce property rights. Any property you think you own, you own only because the government is willing to enforce your right to that property.

Corporations understand this. That is why they work so hard to control the government. A system in which corporations and businesses control the government and its enforcement capacity including its police power and military, is called "fascist." The NAZIs were a form of fascism.

So, when you work for something and think you own it, ask yourself how you will enforce your ownership rights.

The answer is that you will support a government that enforces your ownership rights and protects them on your behalf.

We think we own businesses and build them and create them. But we can only do that if the government protects our right to own, build and create them.

The Republicans and conservatives in general want to use the government to protect the property and other rights of the rich -- of those who have won the biggest prizes in the game to acquire property.

In feudal societies, the rich, the owners, wisely provided work, shelter and food to those in need. They claimed to do it as a religious obligation. They did it because they feared going to Hell if they didn't. Hell for the rich is no property rights. If the rich fail to take care of the poor, the rich will lose their property rights. That is because when the rich fail to take care of the poor, fail to share, the poor take from the rich. But the only way the rich can enforce their rights is through brute force. The rich, even in a feudal society, need enough physical support from the poor and middle class to be able to enforce their property rights.

So next time that someone tells you that they don't want to pay higher taxes to support people who don't work, ask him whether paying higher taxes to support the poor and the jobless is really such a high price to pay for domestic tranquility that secures the majority of his property rights.

That's what it boils down to. You refuse to share with others; you run a huge risk of losing what you have. The survival of the fittest bit that so appeals to libertarians is not so appealing when you think that a society in which only the "fittest" can survive becomes very brutal very quickly. Ayn Rand is a fraud. She never understood social interaction. I have wondered whether perhaps she was extremely autistic.

Property exists in our democratic society because of a social agreement among us to enforce an individual's right to property. That is part of what our Constitution is about.

. . . .

The Koch brothers want to control the government because they claim a lot of property rights that they want the government to protect.

Here is an example of how the government protects and enforces property rights:

During the foreclosure crisis, the banks went to court and got orders permitting them to foreclose on mortgage debtors in default. The sheriff or other official

(As an aside, the irony was that the banks had used an unofficial, extralegal method for recording their interests in the properties, so the entire foreclosure process in many cases, although enforced by the courts, quite probably did not comply with the rules that enable the government to enforce the banks' claims to the property. I find that very ironic. The banks broke the law, but sought to rely on the courts that enforce the law to help them out when borrowers defaulted. Typical right-wing, short-sighed, illogical view of life and society and property and how things work.)
 

 
Wow just wow.  Atlas Shrugged and John Galt leapt to his death after reading this one.

If you send me a postage paid self addressed envelope I will gladly send you an aspirin if this caused you to have a headache.

Response to JDPriestly (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 04:19 PM

edhopper (6,561 posts)

2. Thanks for the
 
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thoughtful response

Thus ends this very small ill informed campfire.    

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

If there is no property rights, then by what measure do they claim the parasites in society are entitled to anything produced by others?

Is the demand for food, shelter, etc not a claim of property rights?

[franksolich]

If there is no property rights, then by what measure do they claim the parasites in society are entitled to anything produced by others?

Is the demand for food, shelter, etc not a claim of property rights?

My question too.

If we can't have what's ours, why should the primitives have what's ours?

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

My question too.

If we can't have what's ours, why should the primitives have what's ours?

Hence the incessant vilification:

"I can have yours and you can't because you're evil and we're good by virtue of the fact we want to help the poor [to your money] and you don't!" </du>

[marv]

If someone steals your property, does that mean that they are now the owners of that property? Is it "possession is nine tenths of the law"?

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

If someone steals your property, does that mean that they are now the owners of that property? Is it "possession is nine tenths of the law"?

Yep, as soon as they have it they lose the right to own it according to JDPustule.

[Chris_]

Yep, as soon as they have it they lose the right to own it according to JDPustule.

He probably doesn't own anything worth stealing.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

He probably doesn't own anything worth stealing.

He will as soon as he steals our stuff.

[JohnnyReb]

You know, in a way he's right. You don't own anything....you rent it from the government, property taxes, don't pay them and see who sells your property and conveys a title to it..

[Duke Nukum]

Does anyone have that quote from Apocalypse Now where Martin Sheen tells Marlin Brando that Brando's ravings make no sense?

Been a long time since I've seen that movie.

[FlippyDoo]

I have a feeling the JDPriestly may have studied at the same institution that trained nads as a historian.

If you happen to lurk JD let me ask you a question. When you buy an ounce of pot do you consider it yours? I mean, if another DUmmie came and took it you would be pissed because the DUmmie stole YOUR pot, correct?

Well, since pot is viewed as illegal by the government I would have to assume that means that the government will not enforce your ownership of something that it has deemed to be illegal. By your view, since the government will not enforce your ownership of the pot, you have no actual ownership of the pot. In other words, the pot is not yours even though you paid money for it. Any DUmmie at any time can just take it because it doesn't belong to anyone.

[zeitgeist]

I have a feeling the JDPriestly may have studied at the same institution that trained nads as a historian.

If you happen to lurk JD let me ask you a question. When you buy an ounce of pot do you consider it yours? I mean, if another DUmmie came and took it you would be pissed because the DUmmie stole YOUR pot, correct?

Well, since pot is viewed as illegal by the government I would have to assume that means that the government will not enforce your ownership of something that it has deemed to be illegal. By your view, since the government will not enforce your ownership of the pot, you have no actual ownership of the pot. In other words, the pot is not yours even though you paid money for it. Any DUmmie at any time can just take it because it doesn't belong to anyone.

You present a logical well thought out appraisal but, when you are talking about a Dummy anything is possible, no?  I offer for your edification and enjoyment the following:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/cocaine/drug-refund-911-call-765902

{snip}After handing over her last $50 to a drug dealer for cocaine and marijuana, a Florida woman suffering from buyer’s remorse called 911 and asked cops for help in securing a refund.

Katrina Tisdale, 47, explained to St. Petersburg police that she would be penniless until her next Social Security disability check arrived. Hence the pressing need to recover her $50 from the unnamed narcotics salesman.
{snip}

The stupid.  It burns.

[jukin]

You present a logical well thought out appraisal but, when you are talking about a Dummy anything is possible, no?  I offer for your edification and enjoyment the following:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/cocaine/drug-refund-911-call-765902

The stupid.  It burns.

You lost the DUmmys at "logical."

[DumbAss Tanker]

My question too.

If we can't have what's ours, why should the primitives have what's ours?

Exactly.  The same background that leads the idiot to claim all property is owned by the people as a whole could just as easily lead to the conclusion that nobody at all, in the whole or in particular, owns it by right.

The supposedly-educated DUmmie is not entirely wrong about the origins of the concept of property, though off by thousands of years, and the commentary he does provide is really more germane to a discussion of rights of inheritance as opposed to property rights during life.

He does more or less completely overlook the fact that private property is protected in the 4th, 5th, and 14th Amendments to the Constitution, which means the question is not open for renegotiation absent a rather drastic further Amendment. 

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

He does more or less completely overlook the fact that private property is protected in the 4th, 5th, and 14th Amendments to the Constitution, which means the question is not open for renegotiation absent a rather drastic further Amendment.

Do you really think those treasonous ****s care about that?

[FlippyDoo]

Do you really think those treasonous ****s care about that?

True. We have to remember that as far as the DUmmies are concerned they view the Constitution as useless as a DUmmie on a crew of laborers.

[USA4ME]

JDPriestly (37,361 posts)

1. I posted this in response to someone who said that taxes should not be raised to require those who work hard and accumulate money and run businesses to pay for those who don't work.

(snip)

So next time that someone tells you that they don't want to pay higher taxes to support people who don't work, ask him whether paying higher taxes to support the poor and the jobless is really such a high price to pay for domestic tranquility that secures the majority of his property rights.

First of all, little stupid boy, you can take your "to support people who don't work" and shove it.  We're getting tired of you and your ilk sitting around, doing nothing, and mooching off everyone else.

Secondly, here's the answer to your "ask him whether paying higher taxes to support the poor and the jobless is really such a high price to pay for domestic tranquility that secures the majority of his property rights."  The answer is yes, there is a point where higher taxes do not provide an adequate return on investment to the property owner.  They're too high now, and they certainly don't need to keep increasing.

You see, your stupid little threat won't work.

But just in case you aren't clear on what I'm telling you, primitive, you seem to have this notion that the population at large will rise up against the property owners.  I highly doubt it, especially at where we are now in history.  There's a lot of homeowners out there, and most of them don't care to be around trash like you.  If anything, it'll be the other way with a tax revolt.  That tends to be how these things go. But I digress.

Here's the point:  You try your little revolt.  You'll find yourself pushing daisies, son.  Those of us who are out here busting our tails everyday are getting tired of you mooching off us at all, much less still wanting more.  Your time is up.

.

[98ZJUSMC]

My question too.

If we can't have what's ours, why should the primitives have what's ours?

Which would then become ........ theirs.  Now, idiots, who protects that which has just became yours through legalized theft?  Who ensures that, what  recently becomes yours, doesn't become someone elses'?  Do you assume that they will never take from you?

OK, I have a headache now........God, these people are so f***ing stoopid.  (D)UmmielOgIc® always jumps from non-sequitur to complete and utter nonsense and the OP is ......ummm.....retarded.

So next time that someone tells you that they don't want to pay higher taxes to support people who don't work, ask him whether paying higher taxes to support the poor and the jobless is really such a high price to pay for domestic tranquility that secures the majority of his property rights.

Been workin' like a charm since the 60's, eh?

[Aristotelian]

Property rights aren't natural? What is he smoking?

I'm not usually a fan of John Locke, but his labour mixing theory of natural property rights is perfectly simple (even a DUmmy could understand it) and pretty much sound.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Property rights aren't natural? What is he smoking?

I'm not usually a fan of John Locke, but his labour mixing theory of natural property rights is perfectly simple (even a DUmmy could understand it) and pretty much sound.

As with DATs appeal to the Constitution you make an appeal to reason.

You will find yourself equally disappointed.

They don't care about those things. All they care about is that you have things they want and they will fabricate whatever argument they need to facilitate their theft. They will disregard law, reason and turn an entire society on its head (i.e. gay "marriage") just to undermine the society built by your laws and reasoning from every angle. They seek to build nothing so much as they work to destroy everything that does not accommodate them.

Consider...

CITIZEN: Oh my God! A bomb just exploded!

PROGLODYTE: It's those RWers! They hate government because they're greedy and cruel to the poor!

CITIZEN: Um, no; it kinda looks like it was leftists.

PROGLODYTE: It's a false flag operation of the RW trying to frame the left because the left stands for the poor!

CITIZEN: Actually, they confessd openly in court.

PROGLODYTE: It's blow back because the RW government oppresses the poor.

Nevermind the fact that the ending defense is exactly what they first accused the RW of committing as a crime. The idea isn't to discuss things logically but to constantly shift so as to keep you off-balance and unable to lay the issue to rest. There mere act of that alone sows as much societal chaos as the bombs. It wears on the civil order and creates confusion, making it increasingly harder for you to defend against their next encroachment. As you run around dousing one fire on the marriage front, they're setting new fires in education or the military or whatever. They count on your efforts to preserve to give them time to run to their next target.

We are unraveling.

They have gain enough followers and sowed enough confusion to destabilize us that they know we are on the verge of collapse. They know they may have as little as 3 and a half years to give us one last nudge.

Why do you think they have become so manic about stripping away the 2nd Amendment? Surely this is not America's first mass shooting in a school. Yet, they have sustained a tempo never seen before.

They know.

Our ideals are no longer a thing we can offer to others out of Grace. They are now the thing we must hold to ourselves as we watch the tempest gather around us. If we endure (I believe we will) we will have our ideals as the blueprint to rebuild...

...until some future generation determines to replay this same farce seen so many time before.

[JohnnyReb]

Thousands and thousands in taxes paid to the various government agencies to defend my property rights....Smith&Wesson will do it for less than $500.

[FlippyDoo]

Thousands and thousands in taxes paid to the various government agencies to defend my property rights....Smith&Wesson will do it for less than $500.

Isn't there a saying that says: God made man...Smith & Wesson made them equal?

[jukin]

Isn't there a saying that says: God made man...Smith & Wesson made them equal?

I thought it was Samuel Colt that did that.

[marv]

Isn't there a saying that says: God made man...Smith & Wesson made them equal?

Actually, it was Mr. Colt, but it matters not.

[FlippyDoo]

Actually, it was Mr. Colt, but it matters not.

Thanks. I knew it was one or the other. Just couldn't remember which.