The telltale signs of mail rape

[Billiam Pitts]

Next on a very special edition of DUmmie Underground: Mail Rape and YOU

That's right, you heard me. Not male rape. Mail rape. Ladies, amazons, feminazis you may have been rape mailed and not known it. Has a man sent you unwanted letters or emails? these are the telltale signs of rape mail. Letters. In the mail. From men.

Are Peni-Americans taking advantage of you via the US Postal Service? Find out the hard facts ask a NOW Caw representative if you have been mail raped.

ATA thread "Did you know that talkingmime was really HopeHoops?"

Whisp (16,739 posts)

Did you know that talkingmime was really HopeHoops?

And you let him stay?

I'm sure you are aware of that awful PM he sent undergroundpanther, about threatening to rape her.

HH was given a PPR because of his misogynist and sexist language, he had scores and scores of hides to prove that fact. It took a long, long time but finally justice was done and his hateful self was thrown out.

Do you think this should be changed, the fact that someone who was so offensive can be allowed to come back?

What is the point of banning people then?

This is just another example why some women are feeling uneasy about how seriously our concerns are taken here. There is a small group that plays down our concerns, mocks, laughs, posts titty post after titty post, posts stories to inflame over and over.

We asked for a simple extension to the ToS to include clearer language about sexist and misogyny. Two Words. And we can't get that.

But we can get rape mail.

Skinner (57,089 posts)
1. I was not aware that talkingmime was HopeHoops.

View profile
As for changing the Terms of Service, the fact of the matter is that our Terms of Service already disallow sexism and misogyny:

No bigoted hate speech.
Do not post bigotry based on someone's race or ethnic origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, religion or lack thereof, disability, or other comparable personal characteristic.

For reference, here is the Wikipedia definition of bigotry:

    Bigotry is the state of mind of a bigot: someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats other people with hatred, contempt, and intolerance on the basis of a person's race, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, national origin, religion, language, socioeconomic status, or other status.


People get banned for sexism and misogyny all the time on DU, just as people get banned for racism, homophobia, or anti-Semitism. Even if those exact words don't exist in the Terms of Service, it is clear that they are covered by it. In fact, if you look at the transparency page for HopeHoops, it specifically says he was banned as a "Misogynist."

The HopeHoops account and the talkingmime account were both banned when they posted sexist/misogynist comments. As far as I know, nobody was suggesting that either of these accounts should have been banned from DU until they posted the comments that got them kicked out. In fact, I just checked my alerts inbox, and yesterday was the very first terms of service alert I received on talkingmime.

Whisp (16,739 posts)
2. boston bean explained to you quite clearly the difference

Last edited Fri Apr 5, 2013, 12:07 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
between using 'gender' only and not also including sexism and misogyny. This has been talked about for some time now. You can find it on an old ATA here, you can probably find it in the dozens of posts in the Welcome thread Gormy Guss started to talk about this, you can also find it on the Meta threads if you have access.

It has been explained quite clearly, over and over.

I think we all realize this will not be the cure all, but not even trying it out is sending a really bad message.

A simple request for a couple word changes in the ToS can't be given us?

Can you not see what you are telling us?

--
edited to add:
There is a zero tolerance for homophobic and anti-semitic language here, as it should be. It is policed very well, as it should be.

There is no such thing even close for women. Why is that?

Skinner (57,089 posts)
3. Let's be clear about what we're talking about.

The DU Terms of Service are intended to show who is eligible to be a DU member, and who is not. The Terms of Service are enforced by the DU Administrators. When the DU Administrators decide that someone is in violation of the Terms of Service -- either based on a single post or a pattern of behavior -- we ban that person from Democratic Underground.

So, ultimately, here's what matters: If you think someone here is a sexist/misogynist who deserves to be banned from Democratic Underground, you need to let me know. You can click the alert link on one of their posts, or you can send me an email or a DU Mail so I can be made aware of that person.

At this moment in time, I am not aware of anyone who has clearly demonstrated that they are a sexist/misogynist who should be banned from DU. And at this moment in time, I am not aware of any serious requests that someone be banned from DU as a sexist/misogynist.

I am aware that some people on DU are bothered by certain points of view that have been posted here. For example, I've seen many complaints about people expressing support for the the woman in Tunisia who took that topless protest photo of herself. But surely you cannot possibly believe that expressing support for a topless protester in Tunisia is a bannable offense -- regardless of what the DU Terms of Service say.

So, to reiterate: If you think someone is a sexist/misogynist who needs to be banned from DU, contact me and make your case. The necessary language to get that person removed from DU is already in the Terms of Service -- I know because I'm the person that enforces them.

Whisp (16,739 posts)
4. I and many others are suggesting there be clearer rules about behaviour here.

Posting pictures of the FEMEN protests is not a bannable thing, of course not. Why do you talk down like that to me?

But you have to see that a lot of these posts have nothing to do with women's protests, and rights, but just another way to show titty and to aggravate.

Can you not even get a glimpse of what is happening here?

Skinner (57,089 posts)
5. I'm not talking down to you. I'm explaining what the purpose of the Terms of Service is.

Last edited Fri Apr 5, 2013, 01:16 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
The Terms of Service are not civility guidelines or rules of behavior. They are, for the most part, banning guidelines.

If we are not talking about banning people, then we aren't talking about the Terms of Service.

Whisp (16,739 posts)
6. so you don't know what I'm talking about?

You got me on a technicality I guess? lol.

Okay, I will try again.

There are clear cut rules and understandings about anti-semitic posts and homophobic ones. Your guidance was needed for this, for this zero tolerance policy and the community at large understands quite clearly what those rules are. There will always be the exception and someone will go over the line and get banned for that, as you pointed out and as we all understand, but the Overall Unacceptability of posts like these is well understood. It is clear. As a bell.

It is not like that for women's issues. We need better guidance from you on this. That is what we have been asking for and get dismissed for asking like we don't know what we are talking about.

For example: The FEMEN posts, to bring that one up again. There is a decided 'game' being played and I will tell you about it as you don't seem to be aware. This 'game' is played by some players that are always at the forefront in dismissing feminist issues, twisting words about, just making shit up to stir shit up and divide genders to get their tickles for the day.

Some of these folks use the FEMEN protests just to get women's breasts on the screen. Do they really care about women's issues or is this just a chucklefest. If you take their posting history into account, it's a joke to them. Now I'm not going to go back and find examples, there are plenty out there and there are a lot of people that see this. Comments about the size of the breasts and whether they are young breasts or whatever. titty titty bang bang talk. Would they be putting up these same pictures if the protest was for breast cancer, and women of all ages marched topless and some breastless? Ask yourself that question and the answer is there.

I was not suggesting banning any of these people because technically, *ahem, as you said, they did nothing wrong.

That is why your leadership is needed in this. Because right now it is a free for all for anyone to diss feminists and the timing for this is really really bad what with all the RW craziness against women's rights.

Skinner (57,089 posts)
7. I don't think the problem here is the DU Terms of Service.

The problem here is that DU members have deep differences of opinion on some issues that you care deeply about, and no amount of admin intervention is going to change that difference of opinion.

To be clear: We are not talking about a difference of opinion on equal rights for women, or the idea of women having full control over their bodies and their lives, or that kind of fundamental human rights question. Those would be Terms of Service issues.

The issues where you find yourselves at odds with other DUers don't seem to be that kind of fundamental human rights question. The FEMEN thing is one example. Is going topless an appropriate form of protest for feminists? To me, that seems like an issue that people should be able to disagree about. We can speculate on the motives of people involved in the argument, but that doesn't change the fact that both sides in this argument have legitimate points to make and should be permitted to make them here.

Whisp (16,739 posts)
8. I'm sorry Skinner, maybe I'm built too low but I can't understand your reasoning on this at all.

It's like we are not even talking about the same thing. Or you didn't even read what I said.

This is not about different opinions on women's rights! How many 'opinions' on gay rights is allowed here? Can't you see? omg.

It is about using women's rights issues as a cudgel to go after feminists here on DU, re: FEMEN (for the most recent example, but there have been scores of that kind).

Because some of us can see the game, we are called names for it, mocked, belittled and all the rest. I had a pic of John Ashcroft posted to me as a reply - the one where he put a cloth over that statue's breast years ago - because apparently I am a rightwing weirdo asshole like Ashcroft that hates sex and breasts if I can't be cool enough to joke about women's breasts with the rest of the guys and gang. Sure I could have alerted, (I know you will tell me that), but what's the point when there are so very many posts like this, how does one keep up?

Skinner (57,089 posts)
9. At this point we have both made our positions clear.

I don't think anything can be gained from repeating ourselves over and over.

Whisp (16,739 posts)
10. No, you have not made yours clear at all, sorry to say.

But you are right, there is no point in going into it further.

[USA4ME]

You couldn't pay me enough to babysit these children.  Sometimes I feel sorry for Skin's, and then I realize he's just as anti-American kooky as they are, so he deserves the grief they give him.

.

[JohnnyReb]

Someone wants to rape the UGP ????????? My God, how much testosterone did the idiot take to get that hard up?

[Splashdown]

So wait. According to Whisp, women and men are NOT equal? Women need special rules on DU to avoid hurt feelings? Lol. So much for DUmmie feminism.

[Tucker]

Someone wants to rape the UGP ????????? My God, how much testosterone did the idiot take to get that hard up?

Enough cheap hooch that you'd pass out first.

[miskie]

So wait. According to Whisp, women and men are NOT equal? Women need special rules on DU to avoid hurt feelings? Lol. So much for DUmmie feminism.

The DU 'feminists' want the proverbial cake and to eat it too. They expect to be a protected class, expect to be able to run to the Men in charge and cry like little bitches when their feelings get hurt, while proclaiming they have power equal to and/or greater than the men.

Well, you know what, all powerful, DU bitches - You need to use your gender given abilities and make me a damn sammich !

Actually.. No.

I bet one of your feminazi sammiches is full of cucumbers and tofu and hummus. Ill make my own sammich, and fill it with things real men eat. Like meat. mustard. cheese. horseradish. on a bulky roll that will sit like a rock in the bottom of your stomach for hours. Thats a sammich.

[Gern]

Good Lord, what a f'ing crybaby.  Get over yourself already...

[Carl]

Guess what skins,another monster of your making has run amok and a purge is in order.
You leftist idiots tell everyone their pet peeve is all that counts and they will believe it.

Now do what every lib despot does when folks actually think you care as you climb to power.
Make the malcontents and obsessed vanish...you know the history of your ilk and you know it is what you have to do.

[chitownchica]

Skinner is an ass, but in this case, I think he should bitchslap Whisp.  It's his playground, and she is taking a shit in the sandbox.

[franksolich]

Skinner is an ass, but in this case, I think he should bitchslap Whisp.  It's his playground, and she is taking a shit in the sandbox.

Actually, I think my fellow alum needs to deep-six the whispy primitive, given how she mouthed off to him.

Toss her out.

[chitownchica]

Actually, I think my fellow alum needs to deep-six the whispy primitive, given how she mouthed off to him.

Toss her out.

Agreed - I'd kick her off the island asap.

[Delmar]

Agreed - I'd kick her off the island asap.

[GOBUCKS]

It seems that Skimmer is starting to visit his DUmp than he did for the first year or so of the new inmates-run-the-asylum DU3.

And since he gave up on the $42 annual dues scam, individual DUmmies are worth a whole lot less to him.

I wonder if we might have another purge of obnoxious queers coming up - this time the lesbofascists instead of prancing gayboys.

[Ballygrl]

Bigotry is the state of mind of a bigot: someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats other people with hatred, contempt, and intolerance on the basis of a person's race, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, national origin, religion, language, socioeconomic status, or other status.

Why is Christian bashing allowed?

It must be so exhausting to be so outraged all the time.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Someone wants to rape the UGP ????????? My God, how much testosterone did the idiot take to get that hard up?

Without going back to review UGP's horrifically-annoying post about it, I don't believe the PM involved said anything very much like that, at least beyond the wildly-speculative hypothetical realm in an 'All men are potential rapists' kind of sense, that was mostly just Whisp being a melodramatic twat.

[movie buff]

Someone wants to rape the UGP ????????? My God, how much testosterone did the idiot take to get that hard up?

Not to mention how much hard liquor he had to drink.

[dandi]

The DU 'feminists' want the proverbial cake and to eat it too. They expect to be a protected class, expect to be able to run to the Men in charge and cry like little bitches when their feelings get hurt, while proclaiming they have power equal to and/or greater than the men.

...

That's a constant from those hypocrites. Every time you see a story about a confrontation between a male and a female, be it verbal or physical, they play the, "picking on a smaller, defenseless woman" card. You never see that outrage over the same thing between two males even when one is much smaller and weaker than the other. If they are so repulsed by the idea of chivalry they need to own it and stop falling back on the "weaker sex" defense only when it suits them.

[Big Dog]

This one is for DUmmy Whisp:



Now, go make me a sammich, bitch.

[Billiam Pitts]

This one is for DUmmy Whisp:



Now, go make me a sammich, bitch.

the DUmmie feminazis wish they had a body like, they wish they were desirable like that. It's the human condition it's in our DNA. Those jugs scream, "i"m a fertile female!" and thus men want her. Hell most women can find somebody that is attracted to them, lest they are a corpse. The Amazons on DU? Not so much.

[Tucker]

the DUmmie feminazis wish they had a body like, they wish they were desirable like that. It's the human condition it's in our DNA. Those jugs scream, "i"m a fertile female!" and thus men want her. Hell most women can find somebody that is attracted to them, lest they are a corpse. The Amazons on DU? Not so much.

Not so. Someone, somewhere will always find a DUmmy woman desirable.

I probably shouldn't do this.

[GOBUCKS]

Not so. Someone, somewhere will always find a DUmmy woman desirable.

There's always DUmmy stevenumbers.

He got splinters from making love to a birdhouse.

[Ballygrl]

This thread is appropriate for me to complain about Big Dog's siggy pic, that butt is the ugliest butt I ever saw, it's flat and has no shape, ewwwwww.

[Skul]

This thread is appropriate for me to complain about Big Dog's siggy pic, that butt is the ugliest butt I ever saw, it's flat and has no shape, ewwwwww.

Oh, that. I was checking out the beers. Right on, girl! Yay!

[Big Dog]

This thread is appropriate for me to complain about Big Dog's siggy pic, that butt is the ugliest butt I ever saw, it's flat and has no shape, ewwwwww.

Barbecue and beer can help me to forgive such a figure flaw 

[miskie]

Barbecue and beer can help me to forgive such a figure flaw 

Point taken - however..

One of those beers is definitely a Blue Moon. The other *might* be a Harvest Moon. - I'm impressed by neither of those. And it appears she is grilling some corn, and not a big slab of meat. So, there are other deficiencies that need to be addressed.