primitives discuss fake electrical breaker panels

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11581872

Oh my.

Brigid (10,175 posts)    Tue Apr 2, 2013, 12:16 AM

Any electricians around here?

I'm watching "Love It Or List It." While knocking down a wall, the renovation crew discovered that the wiring in the house was the old knob-and-tube type instead of the newer type. Apparently someone had at some point installed a fake circuit breaker panel to throw off home inspectors. They said this happens on occasion with older homes. It cost $5,000 to bring the wiring up to code. I guess an inspector can't check for this without tearing into a wall. Has anybody else heard of this?

JayhawkSD (297 posts)    Tue Apr 2, 2013, 12:41 AM

1. nonsense

I am a former US Navy submarine electrician, and licensed in two states as a professional electrician.
 
The knob and tube wiring would be visible in the attic and basement, or equivalent crawl spaces, and readily visible to a casual inspection by anyone with basic electrical knowledge. Any electrician or inspector that did not recognize a "fake breaker panel" as a fake should be burned at the stake.
 
Converting knob and tube to code wiring would cost one whole hell of a lot more than $5000. Every wall in the house would have to be ripped out.
 
I have watched this show a few times. It is utterly bogus.

X_Digger (12,939 posts)   Tue Apr 2, 2013, 01:10 AM

5. Ripped out or at least a whole bunch of holes..

We re-wired my grandmother's 1910-ish bungalow back in the 80's (it was cloth covered.. aluminum, I seem to recall). Luckily it was all one story, with a roomy crawlspace, so it was a lot of holes in the lower foot of wall to get a drill down into the bottom plate.
 
I can only shudder to imagine the mess that a multi-story knob and tube replacement would make of walls and ceilings.

ProgressiveProfessor (21,509 posts)    Tue Apr 2, 2013, 12:44 AM

2. Any inspector should have at least tested for a functional panel in an area with older homes

Be it the one from the city or one the prospective buyers hired.

Knob and tube is quite obvious, so that should have been a clue as well.

Ugly butts in:

Warpy (67,908 posts)   Tue Apr 2, 2013, 12:48 AM

3. It would have to be a pretty lazy inspector since you can see at any outlet whether or not they've upgraded to Romex.

My house was owned by a series of enthusiastic but incompetent handymen. Some of the wiring was backwards, but it was all Romex, thank goodness.

Damn.  Foiled again.

X_Digger (12,939 posts)    Tue Apr 2, 2013, 01:06 AM

4. A fake breaker panel wouldn't pass the little tester home inspectors use.. no beep/light.

If an inspector saw non-grounded outlets (two prong), he'd likely pull the cover and see old wiring.
 
A buddy of mine runs a home inspection business; two tools he carries for the electrical inspection part are a little dongle that when plugged in tells you if it's wired correctly (including ground and polarity) and the beep/light thing. He inspected the house we moved into last summer; he checked every outlet and switch, and he even took the cover off the panel to check how loaded the box was, and to make sure no breakers were running two circuits (that apparently *is* one trick some idiots do).
 
Yeah, I'm smelling 'reality TV' drama.

[67 Rover]

X_Digger (12,939 posts)    Tue Apr 2, 2013, 01:06 AM

4. A fake breaker panel wouldn't pass the little tester home inspectors use.. no beep/light.

If an inspector saw non-grounded outlets (two prong), he'd likely pull the cover and see old wiring.
 
A buddy of mine runs a home inspection business; two tools he carries for the electrical inspection part are a little dongle that when plugged in tells you if it's wired correctly (including ground and polarity) and the beep/light thing. He inspected the house we moved into last summer; he checked every outlet and switch, and he even took the cover off the panel to check how loaded the box was, and to make sure no breakers were running two circuits (that apparently *is* one trick some idiots do).
 
Yeah, I'm smelling 'reality TV' drama.

The DUmmie has an AC polarity tester. 

[Wineslob]

The DUmmie has an AC polarity tester. 

 

I missed that.

Love It or List It is a Canadian home design TV show

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_It_or_List_It


 

[DumbAss Tanker]

"Knob and tube?"  Do they mean screw-base fuses?

 

[Carl]

"Knob and tube?"  Do they mean screw-base fuses?

 

I am guessing an old entrance box like I have.
There are 4 cylinder fuses with 4 screw in ones underneath.

I have inquired about having it replaced and was told there was nothing wrong with it nor any talk of replacing all the wiring if I really was determined to.

[NHSparky]

The DUmmie has an AC polarity tester. 

You'd be amazed how many people tie the ground and neutral together, wire hot to neutral, etc.  Anyone can get a simple outlet tester from Home Depot for $5 that would tell them that.  And usually fix the problem right there.

[thundley4]

"Knob and tube?"  Do they mean screw-base fuses?

 

Old houses had poorly insulated wires and they usually ran through a short tube through studs and joists and were anchored by ceramic or glass insulators mounted on studs or joists.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Old houses had poorly insulated wires and they usually ran through a short tube through studs and joists and were anchored by ceramic or glass insulators mounted on studs or joists.

Now I know what they are talking about - assuming they actually do.  Thanks!  A house with wiring like a goat fence is something you won't even find up here in the back-country Ozarks, though you may still find one or two wired with bus and socket fuses.

[NHSparky]

Now I know what they are talking about - assuming they actually do.  Thanks!  A house with wiring like a goat fence is something you won't even find up here in the back-country Ozarks, though you may still find one or two wired with bus and socket fuses.

True--the wall-insulator stuff is turn of the century type of crap.  1900 turn of the century, that is.

And even if the house was still wired with bus and socket fuses, it's not a terrible expense (comparatively speaking) to rewire the house to code, provided you know how to pull wire through the existing setups and into a new breaker box.  It's not always necessary to bust up the drywall.