primitives discuss traffic tickets in California

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022558332

Oh my.

BlueCheese (1,093 posts)   Sun Mar 24, 2013, 02:45 AM

California: How a $25 traffic ticket ends up costing $194.

So a friend of mine was pulled over for a minor traffic violation (making a turn that a police officer judged was a bit too close to oncoming traffic) and given a ticket. Nothing particularly bad happened-- maybe the officer had to apply the brakes a little, but the sort of thing that must happen a million times a day in the U.S. In looking up how much this would likely cost, I came across a real shock.
 
The ticket probably has a base fine of $25. Okay, that's slightly irritating, but no big deal, right?
 
Um, no. By the time a huge array of penalties and fees are attached, the total is more like $194.
 
First, a penalty of $28 for each $10 of the fine, or part thereof. So that's $28 * 3 = $84 (a 336% increase right there).
 
Second, a $40 court operations charge (it's called a court operations charge because it funds the courts, not because you use the traffic courts).
 
Third, a $35 conviction assessment fee for any vehicular infraction. Strangely, the fee for more serious vehicular misdemeanors or felonies is only $30.
 
Fourth, a $4 emergency air/medical transport penalty (again, to fund air/medical services, not in case you use them).
 
Fifth, a 20% surcharge on the base fee, just for the heck of it, for another $5.
 
Sixth, a $1 night court fee (again, to help run night courts, not in case you go to night court for this ticket).
 
Add it all up, and that $169 in penalties, fees, and surcharges that have little or nothing to do with the actual ticket.
 
Does anyone else find this ridiculous? Courts, emergency air/medical services, etc. should be funded by taxes, not by piling 676% penalties on to traffic tickets. If the state really thinks that an iffy turn should be punished with a $194 fine, then they should simply come out and make that the penalty. But this way of turning traffic enforcement into a revenue mechanism is unseemly, and given the very uneven enforcement of traffic laws, unfair.

SoCalDem (99,121 posts)    Sun Mar 24, 2013, 02:55 AM

1. I got a ticket in my driveway for no seatbelt...$175.00

hollysmom (1,077 posts)    Sun Mar 24, 2013, 02:59 AM

5. how can you get a ticket in your driveway - that is private property unless the cop followed you into your drive way from the road. If you have not pulled out into traffic - they can not give you a ticket.

SoCalDem (99,121 posts)    Sun Mar 24, 2013, 05:14 AM

16. He happened to be on the street and "whooped" as I pulled in..

I had stopped at the mailbox 2 houses away and did not re-buckle my belt as I turned into my driveway..He was a real $%#@!! about it.. I was doing about 5 mph.. live and learn..

no_hypocrisy (25,178 posts)    Sun Mar 24, 2013, 07:24 AM

23. My client was convicted of DWI in her driveway while in park, with the police car blocking her truck from access to the street (in back of her), after they told her to follow them back to the police station to drive her husband home from processing. She got in the truck and turned on the engine. That was "enough" to prove that she intended to drive DWI.

GObamaGO (632 posts)    Sun Mar 24, 2013, 03:16 AM

8. A ticket for talking on the phone and driving is $160 in CA

Ridiculous.

bike man (87 posts)    Sun Mar 24, 2013, 08:23 AM

25. I was stopped for speeding, knew it was me as soon as the LEO came out into the road w/ lights on.

He asked if I knew the speed limit, and how fast I was going. I knew, and told him - I was doing 45 when I saw his lights, and the speed limit was 30.
 
As to why I was going 'so fast', it was because I was listening to a football game and wondering how such mismatched teams were playing.
 
He said I could refuse to sign the citation, and fight it in court. My response "Why? We both know how fast I was going."
 
We talked football for a few moments. I went to the courthouse and paid my $35 at the clerk's window.
 
It was that easy.

Hassin Bin Sober (8,346 posts)    Sun Mar 24, 2013, 08:40 AM

28. Was this 1967?

$35 dollar fine?

Was the deputy's name Fife, by chance?

The option to refuse to sign the ticket went out with fender fins.

Well, if the primitives don't like it, they should pause and contemplate about who's been running California for a very long time now.

[Tucker]

BlueCheese (1,093 posts)

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California: How a $25 traffic ticket ends up costing $194.
So a friend of mine was pulled over for a minor traffic violation (making a turn that a police officer judged was a bit too close to oncoming traffic) and given a ticket. Nothing particularly bad happened-- maybe the officer had to apply the brakes a little, but the sort of thing that must happen a million times a day in the U.S. In looking up how much this would likely cost, I came across a real shock.

The ticket probably has a base fine of $25. Okay, that's slightly irritating, but no big deal, right?

Um, no. By the time a huge array of penalties and fees are attached, the total is more like $194.

First, a penalty of $28 for each $10 of the fine, or part thereof. So that's $28 * 3 = $84 (a 336% increase right there).

Second, a $40 court operations charge (it's called a court operations charge because it funds the courts, not because you use the traffic courts).

Third, a $35 conviction assessment fee for any vehicular infraction. Strangely, the fee for more serious vehicular misdemeanors or felonies is only $30.

Fourth, a $4 emergency air/medical transport penalty (again, to fund air/medical services, not in case you use them).

Fifth, a 20% surcharge on the base fee, just for the heck of it, for another $5.

Sixth, a $1 night court fee (again, to help run night courts, not in case you go to night court for this ticket).

Add it all up, and that $169 in penalties, fees, and surcharges that have little or nothing to do with the actual ticket.

Does anyone else find this ridiculous? Courts, emergency air/medical services, etc. should be funded by taxes, not by piling 676% penalties on to traffic tickets. If the state really thinks that an iffy turn should be punished with a $194 fine, then they should simply come out and make that the penalty. But this way of turning traffic enforcement into a revenue mechanism is unseemly, and given the very uneven enforcement of traffic laws, unfair.

All Y'All moonbats demand enactment of laws covering social policies to protect to entitlement class. Where did you think that the funding was going to come from?

SoCalDem (99,121 posts)
1. I got a ticket in my driveway for no seatbelt...$175.00

View profile

Normally I'd say bullshit, but then that was in Cal.

As Paul Harvey would say, "And now for the rest of the story."

SoCalDem (99,121 posts)
16. He happened to be on the street and "whooped" as I pulled in..

View profile
I had stopped at the mailbox 2 houses away and did not re-buckle my belt as I turned into my driveway..He was a real $%#@!! about it.. I was doing about 5 mph.. live and learn..

no_hypocrisy (25,178 posts)
23. My client was convicted of DWI in her driveway while in park,

View profile
with the police car blocking her truck from access to the street (in back of her), after they told her to follow them back to the police station to drive her husband home from processing. She got in the truck and turned on the engine. That was "enough" to prove that she intended to drive DWI.

villager (18,727 posts)
2. It's completely chickenshit, and turns the cops into jackbooted tax collectors

View profile
...who have no choice but to find people to penalize with ridiculous "infractions," further reducing what little respect anyone has left for "law enforcement."

The only way to fight any of this is to actually go to traffic court, where you can usually get fines reduced, or to insist on facing the officer, and if s/he doesn't show up, it's dismissed. Or there's traffic school.

But basically, if everyone who received a ticket opted for court -- even a substantial minority -- they could truly gum up the works and perhaps cause some reassessment of this ongoing harassment.

You do that. Watch every penalty for a conviction triple.

AnotherMcIntosh (6,137 posts)
14. Choose traffic school? In Chicago, traffic school has been privatized and operated in part by

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a Daley cousin.

Sounds like just another corrupt democrat party regime.

Politicalboi (9,078 posts)
18. I had a red light ticket

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Went to court, they had some video on that was boring, after 9:00 they continued to let people in even though you're supposed to be there by 9:00. Anyway, others have the same fine as me. Red light ticket $500.00. See the judge, plead guilty and would like to go to traffic school $100.00. Sounds great! Well my turn arrived, the judge says the same thing to me. I would have chosen community service if the fine was more than $100. The bailiff comes back and hands me a paper that says $500.00. I said WHAT! The judge said $100.00? Well she said, that was in the video. The fine is 5 times the amount the judge says. I shit you not.

So once you had your say with the judge, and don't choose community service, you are screwed. So $500.00 and the privilege to do traffic school. Years ago, you just did the traffic school, and that forgave your fine. That's back in the day where you spent 8 hours in a class and it was looked at like getting paid for a job with no fine to pay. Just the class and your certificate.

 

tblue37 (11,553 posts)
9. Because many of the Americans who actually vote refuse to accept that they must pay

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taxes to fund the government services that they and everyone else want--and the politicians are therefore afraid to raise needed revenue through taxes for fear of losing their cushy sinecures--cities, counties, and states must find other ways to fund government functions and services.

Seriously soaking anyone who gets caught up in the court system because of a traffic violation is just one way of doing that. Since most people don't get caught up in the court system that way, it is a relatively safe approach, because it won't lead to a taxpayer revolt, nor will it get the billionaires or the PACs funding a primary challenge against them.

Another way of funding government services without seeming to raise taxes is by instituting "fees" for all sorts of things that didn't used to have fees attached. For example, schools now have to raise funds to cover the gaps the Republican-controlled state legislatures leave when they cut funding. Disadvantaged kids discover they cannot afford to ride the bus, go on field trips with their classes, join teams, clubs, bands, or other organizations, or do many other things that used to be included in "free" public education, back when it really was pretty much free for students and their families. Textbook rental costs have also soared, but when I was a kid my parents didn't have to rent our books--the school provided them, and as long as we returned them in good shape at the end of the year, it didn't cost us a thing.

Now that schools cannot even afford to provide classroom supplies, parents get longer and longer lists of supplies their kids must bring to school (for the classroom, not for each individual kid's own use)--including pencils, paper, crayons, glue, Kleenex, etc. Communities like the one I live in end up having to run charity drives to provide these required supplies for the disadvantaged the kids in grade schools and middle schools. The group that organizes the drive each school year buys backpacks, fills them with required supplies and then gives one to each kid whose parents have submitted an application for one.

What Americans who vote for lower taxes don't realize is that they are not getting taxed less, because that money is coming out of their pockets anyway in such revenue enhancing schemes as the fees attached to traffic stops, to the use of public services that used to be free, and to the public education that also used to actually be free.

And since the rich folks who don't much use the public services won't end up paying those fees, but do end up paying much lower taxes, the cost of government functions and services is not spread across society, including those who can afford to help cover the cost of government, but instead falls largely on the middle class and the poor.

Can anyone verify this? If so, Marx would be proud.

SoCalDem (99,121 posts)
17. My husband's "red-light" camera-ticket cost us $800.

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He could have gone to court & fought it but his time is more valuable to him..

bike man (87 posts)
25. I was stopped for speeding, knew it was me as soon as the LEO came out into the road w/ lights on.

View profile
He asked if I knew the speed limit, and how fast I was going. I knew, and told him - I was doing 45 when I saw his lights, and the speed limit was 30.

As to why I was going 'so fast', it was because I was listening to a football game and wondering how such mismatched teams were playing.

He said I could refuse to sign the citation, and fight it in court. My response "Why? We both know how fast I was going."

We talked football for a few moments. I went to the courthouse and paid my $35 at the clerk's window.

It was that easy.

Freer troll.

[tac]

Now you know why people are leaving the state! 

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

I was jsut about to grab this.

Here are some of my favorites:

villager (18,727 posts)

2. It's completely chickenshit, and turns the cops into jackbooted tax collectors

...who have no choice but to find people to penalize with ridiculous "infractions," further reducing what little respect anyone has left for "law enforcement."
 
The only way to fight any of this is to actually go to traffic court, where you can usually get fines reduced, or to insist on facing the officer, and if s/he doesn't show up, it's dismissed. Or there's traffic school.
 
But basically, if everyone who received a ticket opted for court -- even a substantial minority -- they could truly gum up the works and perhaps cause some reassessment of this ongoing harassment.

BlueCheese (1,093 posts)

6. Seriously...

If you wanted to design a system that would make people distrustful of law enforcement and angry at the government, you could hardly do better.
 
Charge everyone in the state an average of $10 or so in income taxes, and nobody will really care. Charge people $200 for small traffic violations, and watch them get out the pitchforks.

tblue37 (11,553 posts)

9. Because many of the Americans who actually vote refuse to accept that they must pay

taxes to fund the government services that they and everyone else want--and the politicians are therefore afraid to raise needed revenue through taxes for fear of losing their cushy sinecures--cities, counties, and states must find other ways to fund government functions and services.
 
Seriously soaking anyone who gets caught up in the court system because of a traffic violation is just one way of doing that. Since most people don't get caught up in the court system that way, it is a relatively safe approach, because it won't lead to a taxpayer revolt, nor will it get the billionaires or the PACs funding a primary challenge against them.
 
Another way of funding government services without seeming to raise taxes is by instituting "fees" for all sorts of things that didn't used to have fees attached. For example, schools now have to raise funds to cover the gaps the Republican-controlled state legislatures leave when they cut funding. [Like the billion dollar funding gap the republicans created for Chicago? -- Sgt SB] Disadvantaged kids discover they cannot afford to ride the bus, go on field trips with their classes, join teams, clubs, bands, or other organizations, or do many other things that used to be included in "free" public education, back when it really was pretty much free for students and their families. Textbook rental costs have also soared, but when I was a kid my parents didn't have to rent our books--the school provided them, and as long as we returned them in good shape at the end of the year, it didn't cost us a thing.
 
Now that schools cannot even afford to provide classroom supplies, parents get longer and longer lists of supplies their kids must bring to school (for the classroom, not for each individual kid's own use)--including pencils, paper, crayons, glue, Kleenex, etc. Communities like the one I live in end up having to run charity drives to provide these required supplies for the disadvantaged the kids in grade schools and middle schools. The group that organizes the drive each school year buys backpacks, fills them with required supplies and then gives one to each kid whose parents have submitted an application for one.
 
What Americans who vote for lower taxes don't realize is that they are not getting taxed less, because that money is coming out of their pockets anyway in such revenue enhancing schemes as the fees attached to traffic stops, to the use of public services that used to be free, and to the public education that also used to actually be free.
 
And since the rich folks who don't much use the public services won't end up paying those fees, but do end up paying much lower taxes, the cost of government functions and services is not spread across society, including those who can afford to help cover the cost of government, but instead falls largely on the middle class and the poor.

Turbineguy (16,349 posts)

20. By buying cookies at a school bake sale

you are actually agreeing that it's OK for republicans to **** things up.

tblue37 (11,553 posts)

21. I don't think it is necessarily "agreeing" so much as it is

not recognizing that this is what is going on. It's a failure to connect the dots.

Turbineguy (16,349 posts)

22. You are right.

Last edited Sun Mar 24, 2013, 06:02 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

Some years ago my Wife made a beautiful apple pie for a school bake sale. Later, she heard a well dressed (our area is heavily republican) lady bragging how she got this apple pie for a mere $4. Several hours of work and about $10 in ingredients. It was the last one my Wife made.

So, because your wife was bitter about donating $10 and her time to the school everyone else is supposed to get soaked and pushed around by government that treats the citizenry like herd animals?

JI7 (39,274 posts)

11. we can't have the wealthy having to pay their share , so we do things like this

What AREN'T the wealthy supposed to pay for?

What ARE you supposed to pay for?

SoCalDem (99,121 posts)

17. My husband's "red-light" camera-ticket cost us $800.

He could have gone to court & fought it but his time is more valuable to him..

I'm guessing this whore is pretty well-kept if half a day is worth $800 to their household.

[franksolich]

I'm guessing this whore is pretty well-kept if half a day is worth $800 to their household.

The SoCalDem primitive is banging on the door of 65 years; she's rather stout and has been a stay-at-home wife nearly all her marriage.  Her husband's a unionized forklift operator, or something.

She defies a lot of stereotypes about the primitives; one of her favorite activities is the weekly night out with "the girls" to go bowling.

Since hubby brings home all the bacon and all she has to do it eat it, she has a rather unusual take on how life is.  Like the adroit sparkling old dude's trophy wife, she's about as deep as a teacup saucer.

[JohnnyReb]

Here in red state hell, the cop, patrolman, deputy tells you the fine is $X number of dollars and you don't have to sign the ticket, you don't have to go to court and you can just pay him on the spot if you like.....I see the magistrate, talk nice to him and get the fine reduced myself ....after talking nice to the officer at the scene and getting him to lower the fine to begin with.

Nice guys pay lower fines.

[Tucker]

Three of us grabbing this one at pretty much the same time.

[miskie]

parents get longer and longer lists of supplies their kids must bring to school (for the classroom, not for each individual kid's own use)--including pencils, paper, crayons, glue, Kleenex, etc.

Can anyone verify this? If so, Marx would be proud.

This has been a Massachusetts standard for years - as well as other 'blue' states such as Rhode Island. Teachers soak the parents for basic school supplies.

[marv]

In Chitcago, all you have to do to avoid traffic court is have $100 bill handy in your shirt pocket when you're stopped. You're happy to avoid a stiffer fine in court. The cop is happy to supplement his income tax free. The courts are happy not to be so clogged.

So it's win-win-win, and everybody gets to see the Bears and Cubs lose.

[Dori]

parents get longer and longer lists of supplies their kids must bring to school (for the classroom, not for each individual kid's own use)--including pencils, paper, crayons, glue, Kleenex, etc.

Yes it's true in this area.   The kids get long lists of supplies to bring for their personal use and for classroom use.    Can get expensive too.

When kids are out sick, the school asks for a donation to cover the money the school loses from the state for the non attendance.

As far as bake sales go, not here.  They are not supposed to even bring sweets in their lunches and nuts and nut butters are banned also.

One of the schools does have an ice cream sale after school once a month.


Oh, and that so called ticket only costing $25 for an unsafe turn?  There isn't such a thing in CA for a moving violation.  A parking ticket on street sweeping day starts at $35.  If you park on a busy street during rush hours, they can throw the book at you.





 

 

[Freeper]

Yes it's true in this area.   The kids get long lists of supplies to bring for their personal use and for classroom use.    Can get expensive too.

When kids are out sick, the school asks for a donation to cover the money the school loses from the state for the non attendance.

As far as bake sales go, not here.  They are not supposed to even bring sweets in their lunches and nuts and nut butters are banned also.

One of the schools does have an ice cream sale after school once a month.


Oh, and that so called ticket only costing $25 for an unsafe turn?  There isn't such a thing in CA for a moving violation.  A parking ticket on street sweeping day starts at $35.  If you park on a busy street during rush hours, they can throw the book at you.





 

 

I sure hope they don't do that shit here, if they do I'm going to be real popular with the school. 

[Tucker]

Oh, and that so called ticket only costing $25 for an unsafe turn?  There isn't such a thing in CA for a moving violation.  A parking ticket on street sweeping day starts at $35.  If you park on a busy street during rush hours, they can throw the book at you.

 

You missed this very important part:

So a friend of mine was pulled over

If it starts with "So a friend of mine", they're only two possible scenarios. One is it's a bouncy or two, that the friend and the OP are the same person.

As this starts with "So", I'm gonna go with the bouncy. Bouncies are not intended to be factual but rather to instill rage. An enraged DUmmy is a happy DUmmy.

[GOBUCKS]

He forgot to mention the joint the cop noticed in the ashtray.

[Zathras]

Hey DUmbasses, there's a very easy way to not get popped for a vehicle violation on the highways of California....don't break the damned law and you'll be ok.

[DLR Pyro]

Add it all up, and that $169 in penalties, fees, and surcharges that have little or nothing to do with the actual ticket.

penalties, fees, and surcharges are just words that democrats have used over the past 2 decades to disguise any new tax they want to spring upon us since a 2/3 majority is required to add a new tax in california.

What's the matter DUmmies.  Don't you like doing your patriotic duty and paying taxes?

[NHSparky]

I have yet to see a ticket in CA in the last 15 years that cost less than $200.

I got a speeding ticket in 1999 going to Needles.  85 in a 70.  $265.  Red light cameras start at $350, plus $130 for traffic school, and go up from there.

[GOBUCKS]

This has been a Massachusetts standard for years - as well as other 'blue' states such as Rhode Island. Teachers soak the parents for basic school supplies.

They do that here in red state hell, but you don't hear many complaints because our taxes are dirt cheap.