primitives discuss talking to cops

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022519682

Oh my.

Logical (7,129 posts)    Sat Mar 16, 2013, 07:56 PM

Do people know they do not need to talk to the police?

I have read about 100s of cases where the police question a suspect for 12 - 18 hours straight. Many of these people had nothing to do with the crime. Some have even confessed during this questioning because they just wanted to end the questions. And are later found innocent.
 
I wish High Schools would teach this from day 1, "You do not have to talk to the police, ask for a lawyer"
 
But too many people in this country 100% trust the police and the legal system. And I am sure suggesting to anyone that we need to warn students not to trust the police would cause an uproar.
 
Tell your family to watch this series of videos from "Flex Your Rights", Very helpful!
 
http://www.youtube.com/user/FlexYourRights?feature=watch

elleng (38,644 posts)    Sat Mar 16, 2013, 08:00 PM

1. Many/Most probably don't know this, and of those who suspect it, many are likely intimidated by the appearance of authority.
 
EVERY school should use such videos.

<<<thinks schools, instead of teaching this, should teach things like "respect the law; it's meant to protect you," "practice good manners and be polite, so you won't end up another poor lil Treyyvon," and "honesty pays."

pnwmom (42,447 posts)   Sat Mar 16, 2013, 08:09 PM

2. Thanks for this. I have a smart, educated friend who forgot this at a critical moment in his life and then found himself in a world of pain that continues to this day.
 
The police questioned him while he was in a state of shock and despair -- too dazed to even think of contacting a lawyer, never imagining that he would need one. Four years later, there was a hung jury -- 11 to 1 for acquittal -- and the state has decided to prosecute him again. What a nightmare. And it all could have been avoided if he'd demanded to talk to his lawyer.

Logical (7,129 posts)    Sat Mar 16, 2013, 08:11 PM

4. So sad. And the damn legal system has all the tax payer money they need to harass him forever. It...is a rigged system that most Americans have no clue about.

It is corrupt. People are clueless.

pnwmom (42,447 posts)    Sat Mar 16, 2013, 08:17 PM

6. Yes. Since this happened, I've found instances where defendants were prosecuted through THREE hung juries -- and finally found guilty on the fourth attempt (at least one finally plea-bargained because he couldn't go on.)
 
My friend could somehow afford his first trial, and I hope he can afford this next -- but you're right, it's a rigged system. It can be shockingly unjust.

Oh now, admit it.

Your "friend" was probably dealing in drugs.

sir pball (906 posts)    Sat Mar 16, 2013, 08:11 PM

3. Sometimes it's wise, sometimes it isn't.

Of course if you're being pulled into a serious situation you best lawyer up quick - but in less severe situations I've found that being polite and cooperative generally gets pretty good results. I've walked away with nothing more than a stern lecturwhere I could have spent the night in holding, because I wasn't being stubborn...then again, I usually find myself in those situations when I've been caught doing something, so I don't have much of a leg to stand on.
 
IMO it really depends on the situation, but not everybody is aware enough of their rights, and what's going on, to be able to make those judgements.

Uh huh.

Logical (7,129 posts)    Sat Mar 16, 2013, 08:14 PM

5. I agree. It is based on the tone of the questions. But I think after 2 hours it would be time to....lawyer up.

sir pball (906 posts)    Sat Mar 16, 2013, 08:17 PM

7. Oh, absolutely. Probably as soon as I got to the station.

On the flip side, I have an acquaintance whose first words on being spoken to by an officer for more or less any reason are "Am I being detained? Am I free to go? Why are you questioning me?". He worked for the Brennan Center for a while, it did taint his view of the police and civil rights - but I've seen firsthand his day get really inconvenient by pulling that stunt.

datasuspect (25,215 posts)    Sat Mar 16, 2013, 09:04 PM

13. if you're already in custody, in the police lockup, you've lost any leverage to "cooperate" so you can go on your way.

you clam up when the bracelets go on.

all bets are off once they take you in. it's up to the courts after that, the cops ain't shit after that point.

Trillo (7,159 posts)    Sat Mar 16, 2013, 08:58 PM

9. How does one teach the right to remain silent, in a system that is designed around the compulsion of disclosure.

The DARE program brought cops into the classroom to make humans out of them in the minds of the kids, and to socialize the kids that it was okay to talk to them when stopped. The entire nature of schools is about kids disclosing every thing they know to authority figures.
 
Teaching kids about their right to remain silent doesn't seem realistic in such an environment, at best it would lead to a mixed message of disclosure of information (even personal, do your parents beat you?) to teachers and on tests, but when cops are in the hallways asking questions (and detaining), or when you're stopped as an adult and detained, remain silent.
 
How does one teach the right to remain silent, in a system that is designed around the compulsion of disclosure?

Kali (32,532 posts)    Sat Mar 16, 2013, 08:59 PM

10. High Schools teach civil rights? hahahhaha

sorry they are too busy training the sheep to be compliant little prisoners

Old Codger (2,229 posts)    Sat Mar 16, 2013, 09:01 PM

11. The best

Thing to do is first ask for an attorney and then say nothing at all more than that, they cannot legally ask any more questions after that,always remember that you cannot lie to them, they CAN lie to you and will do so...

Logical (7,129 posts)    Sat Mar 16, 2013, 09:05 PM

15. I have never understood why that is legal either. Makes no sense to me.

datasuspect (25,215 posts)    Sat Mar 16, 2013, 09:06 PM

16. they CAN whip your ass, too

depends on what you did, who you are, stuff like that.

clamming up and getting the lawyer involved can mitigate much of that though.

but if they want to be dicks, they can do whatever the hell they want. most of the time they get away with anything.

kudzu22 (799 posts)    Sat Mar 16, 2013, 09:03 PM

12. I do, but I suspect most do not

I sometimes watch that show First 48, which has footage of real police interrogations. I'm amazed that 90% of the cases they would have no evidence if the suspect could just STFU. On the other hand, it's probably a good thing that most criminals don't know they have that option.

Logical (7,129 posts)    Sat Mar 16, 2013, 09:07 PM

17. True, police catch many guilty people.

Now, why is it that the primitives find it so hard to indulge in casual neighborly social intercourse with cops?

Anybody know?

[Delmar]

Logical (7,129 posts)    Sat Mar 16, 2013, 07:56 PM

Do people know they do not need to talk to the police?

I have read about 100s of cases where the police question a suspect for 12 - 18 hours straight. Many of these people had nothing to do with the crime. Some have even confessed during this questioning because they just wanted to end the questions. And are later found innocent.
 
I wish High Schools would teach this from day 1, "You do not have to talk to the police, ask for a lawyer"
 
But too many people in this country 100% trust the police and the legal system. And I am sure suggesting to anyone that we need to warn students not to trust the police would cause an uproar.
 
Tell your family to watch this series of videos from "Flex Your Rights", Very helpful!

This is something that needs to be taught in schools?  I think that I watch about the average amount of TV and during my life something that I would conservatively estimate that I have heard hundreds of times is this:

You have the right to remain silent.
Anything you say or do may be used against you in a court of law.
You have the right to consult an attorney before speaking to the police and to have an attorney present during questioning.

The schools should stick to the 3 Rs and leave it to T. J. Hooker to teach kids about the Miranda decision.

[Evil_Conservative]

Oh I'm sure that lesson is tucked somewhere in the Common Core, DUmmies.

[Freeper]

It's never a good idea for pot heads to talk to police.

Decent civilized people have nothing to fear when we talk to them.

[Celtic Rose]

This is why we have a nifty little requirement called the Miranda Warning, you know, where the police tell you that you have the right to remain silent and be represented by an attorney.  Anything a person says that is self-incriminating cannot be used in a court of law unless they were read their rights. 

Personally, all my interactions with police officers have been fairly cordial.  I wasn't terribly impressed by the police officer who sat snoring in a chair while supposedly guarding a patient who was in police custody, but other than that I don't have any complaints. 

[GOBUCKS]

DUmmies will never learn "How To Not Get Your Ass Kicked By The PO-lice".

[chitownchica]

Geez DUmmies, if by no other method, you've surely learned enough about your rights by watching Law and Order.  Or, if you listen to the cops read Miranda, you'll know.

There's also a free app on iTunes.

[vesta111]

Geez DUmmies, if by no other method, you've surely learned enough about your rights by watching Law and Order.  Or, if you listen to the cops read Miranda, you'll know.

There's also a free app on iTunes.

-------------------Just the facts Mame, just the facts.     

[Skul]

Kali (32,532 posts)    Sat Mar 16, 2013, 08:59 PM

10. High Schools teach civil rights? hahahhaha

sorry they are too busy training the sheep to be compliant little prisoners

Then liberal colleges finish the job.
I wonder if kali knows what s/h/it actually posted. 

[hillneck]

For the DUmmie lurkers, if you silly jackasses worked half as hard at trying to accomplish something worthwhile and constructive as you do trying to go over on society.  This country would be a much better place.  Then again trying to reason with you rock heads is like trying to train a slug.   

[chitownchica]

-------------------Just the facts Mame, just the facts.     

[Vagabond]

The other option is don't get caught.  Especially when the police show up with the paddy wagon.  That is when fun time is over.

Don't think too hard of me.  I was involved in the disturbance, but it wasn't my fight.  It all started over a friend finding his girlfriend in bed with another guy.  He called for back up and a whole lot of us showed up.  The fight just sorta naturally ended up in the street.  My dad was a Law Enforcement Officer, and I knew better than to get caught. 

Fun night, though.

[AprilRazz]

-------------------Just the facts Mame, just the facts.     

[JohnnyReb]

"You have the right to remain silent......or I will put your lights out." That's the way it should be read to mouthy DUmmies.