http://www.democraticunderground.com/115723415Oh my.
struggle4progress (70,552 posts) Tue Mar 12, 2013, 11:03 PM
I gotta make a big messa spaghetti sauce in three weeks. Suggestions?
We're gonna be serving mebbe 300 folk, and various different people will bring in pots of sauce
But from experience I expect a great diversity in the sauce brought: some will be rich and meaty, some will have some meat, and some will be minimalist -- a few supermarket cans of pinkish starchy tomato sauce dumped into pots and dropped off
It goes on hot pasta into serving trays that sit in a warming oven until they go onto the steam-table serving line
So I wanna come up with a big pot or two of something interesting enough to redeem whatever dreaded pink starchy stuff shows up ijn the kitchen
Consideration #1: it has to be nutritious
Consideration #2: it has to have real flavor
Consideration #2a: the flavor can't be overpowering, because the sauce might not be diluted
Consideration #2b: but there needs to be enough flavor, because the sauce is likely to be diluted in pink starchy stuff
Consideration #3: it would be great if it had some visual appeal, like texture and color
I've done this before, so I have some idea how to proceed, but I'm fishing for suggestions
Let me say first what sort of thing I'll do:
10 lbs of lean ground beef
mix in lots of oregano, sage, garlic and onion, plus some basil
form into thumbjoint-sized meatballs
pressure cook
cool
remove grease
save aspic for sauce
crumble the meatballs into smaller fragments
three to five yellow, red, orange, green bell peppers, diced or sliced
half to three quarters of a celery bunch, diced with all the celery leaf
two to three large onions diced
large bunch of cilantro, minced
gently saute veggies in large pot (or two large pots) in olive oil
add several industrial size cans of crushed and/or diced tomatos to v*****s
(i generally use both crushed and diced, the crushed for background, the diced for texture)
add aspic
simmer gently
add the meat
towards the end
add one or two small cans of tomato sauce to thicken sauce and add color
Questions:
1. The meal includes cooked v*****s, salad, and desert, but is there anything I can do to make the sauce more nutritious? I've tried spinach, but the appearance results aren't always good: green juice and red juice tend towards murky brown. I've tried shredded broccoli, but it's really easy to overcook such cabbage family ingredient
2. I'm thinking of adding a pound or two of sausage meatballs, to add flavor, but a lot of that may disappear as removed grease. Any other ideas about how to add flavor? Add a bit of shredded radish to the saute?
3. More color and texture might help. I'm thinking mebbe a few cups of cubed carrot, but it's not very imaginative
Stinky The Clown (50,489 posts) Tue Mar 12, 2013, 11:28 PM
1. As a carnivore married to a herbivore, I'd rethink the meat. Or at least make some meatless.
Can you mix all the donated sauces and then adjust the flavor?
struggle4progress (70,552 posts) Tue Mar 12, 2013, 11:46 PM
3. Sadly, the facilities are inadequate for us to offer a choice of entree: there just isn't room on the line; and if 300 hungry people are queued to eat, there's no real way to ask each if they'd prefer and meatless sauce and wander back to the kitchen to prepare exceptional trays
Obviously, mixing the sauces and adjusting flavor would be preferable, but the schedule doesn't permit that either: we get the kitchen around 5 and start serving around 6, having had to prepare the salad and bread and desserts and pasta and v*****s in that hour. We try to get folk to bring their sauce hot, to save time heating it, but there's no time to get any additional spice flavor into the sauces: there isn't really enough time to get any added spice damp in the sauce. We try to finesse this some by using a mix of different sauces in each steamtray of pasta, so that the streaks of different sauce colors, flavors, and textures are more likely to appear on every plate, leading to a more interesting meal -- but that's about the best we currently know how to do.
Gormy Cuss (26,421 posts) Tue Mar 12, 2013, 11:30 PM
2. Wheatberries would add texture, nutrition.
I haven't used them in tomato sauce, only chili. They add texture without a nasty color effect.
http://vegetarian.about.com/od/soupsstewsandchili/r/Wheat-Berry-Chili.htm
In addition to peppers I'd use zucchini by the boatload. Saute it separately to sweat off the water then add to the sauce.
struggle4progress (70,552 posts) Wed Mar 13, 2013, 12:08 AM
8. Zucchini sounds like an excellent idea! I can get both texture and color from it!
GoCubsGo (12,476 posts) Tue Mar 12, 2013, 11:47 PM
4. Cilantro?
Do you mean oregano? Cilantro doesn't belong in spaghetti sauce. Try oregano, along with some basil and parsley (preferable the flat Italian kind), and some bay leaves (be sure to remove before serving). And, don't forget the garlic. A small amount of red chili flakes will give a nice zing to it. So would some fennel seed. If you add carrots, just grate them finely. Instead of using tomato sauce to thicken it, add some tomato paste. The flavor is more concentrated. You'll also want to add a TINY amount of sugar to cut the acidity, and some salt. It should be plenty nutritious with just the tomatoes. If you want to add spinach, use fresh, mince it finely like you would the parsley, and add it toward the end. Some dry red wine will also give it some great flavor.
struggle4progress (70,552 posts) Wed Mar 13, 2013, 12:06 AM
7. I get good results with cilantro. Of course, I'm making gallons of sauce, with pounds of meat, and quite a few other flavors, and it cooks into everything. Bay leaf I always use: it's unnecessary to remove it if you crumble the dry leaf into small bits in your hand before adding it. Red pepper flakes I also almost always use, though it's important not to over do it: I generally mix different spices into different meatballs, so a certain fraction of the meatballs get the red pepper flakes. Dunno why I typed "tomato sauce" -- I think the stuff is dreadful, and what I do use is actually a few small cans of tomato paste. Sometimes I've added a small amount of cumin
Fennel I wouldn't have thought of, and I'll try it
I'll try the grated carrot, too: I'm guessing two or three loosely packed cups for ten to twelve pounds of meat
Fresh spinach might indeed work better than the frozen blocks I've tried in the past; I'll try that too, adding it right after I turn off the sauce at home to take it over to the kitchen
A lot of people have suggested some sugar, and I always forget it! I'll try to remember this time
I'll think about the wine: it might take a lot to make a difference with this much sauce
Laura PourMeADrink (14,866 posts) Wed Mar 13, 2013, 07:53 PM
24. I always use wine. I cringed at the cilantro too. Do you put egg and bread in meatballs?
struggle4progress (70,552 posts) Wed Mar 13, 2013, 07:56 PM
25. I only ever make meatballs as a way of cooking large quantities of meat, and then:
(1) they are thumbjoint-sized; (2) they contain only meat, spices, and perhaps some v*****s; and (3) they get broken into smaller chunks and are cooked into the sauce for some hours before serving
Sorry you don't like cilantro
Laura PourMeADrink (14,866 posts) Wed Mar 13, 2013, 09:51 PM
27. actually like cilantro - just not Italian - of course, if you are shooting for Italian.
Like the flavor that egg/bread gives to the meat. Good idea - guess it would be easier than trying to brown large quantities of meat.
And then Ugly, she with the face like Hindenburg's, jaws in:
Warpy (67,595 posts) Tue Mar 12, 2013, 11:57 PM
5. Since it's going to be mixed with rubbishy stuff right out of a jar
I'd strongly suggest you do a basic red sauce with lots of tomato paste, garlic, and chunky stuff like mushrooms, onions, celery, and whatever you have kicking around you want to get rid of. Season heavily with either basil or oregano and make sure you don't eat it straight because it should be overseasoned.
The real problem (other than blandness) with the stuff out of the jars is that it has nothing in it to give it a little texture. Even canned stems & pieces mushrooms do it a big favor. Still, it all needs flavoring and that means onions, garlic, tomato paste, and lots of basil or oregano.
That's what I'd do, anyway.
struggle4progress (70,552 posts) Wed Mar 13, 2013, 12:11 AM
9. I love mushrooms, and I think they'd add a lot to this. But everytime we serve this spaghetti dinner a bunch of folk say, without fail, "It doesn't have mushrooms in it, does it? I can't stand mushrooms!" so I've resigned myself to the idea that I'm never ever putting mushrooms into the spaghetti I serve there
Warpy (67,595 posts) Wed Mar 13, 2013, 12:18 AM
10. Yeah, people are nuts. I'd just tell them to pick out the m*****s knowing the flavor had gone into the sauce. Usually people who say they hate mushrooms like the flavor and hate the texture.
It's either that or chopping them finely enough that you can't tell what they are.
A HERETIC I AM (9,989 posts) Wed Mar 13, 2013, 12:21 AM
12. Agreed.
Finely minced and cooked in, you never know they are there.
Quickest way to do that is in a food processor, yeah?
Warpy (67,595 posts) Wed Mar 13, 2013, 12:25 AM
14. That's what I've done when mushroom whiners were coming to dinner
They raved about the sauce and never knew the difference.
<<<proudly and vociferously a "mushroom whiner."
struggle4progress (70,552 posts) Wed Mar 13, 2013, 12:24 AM
13. Yes, that's quite true in my experience. Maybe I should reduce a package of shrooms to tiny crumbs in my food processor, add em, and then forget to tell anybody
BillyJack (811 posts) Tue Mar 12, 2013, 11:59 PM
6. It sounds like you have "totally got this" already
I think it's really cool (and as it should be) that you want the absolute very best culinary experience for your diners....in terms of taste, texture, visual appeal, and nutrition.
You've got all this "unknown" sauce coming into the mix....
I'm so glad you care, but think that you are <<<<stressing>>>>> waaaaay too much about it. It's one meal....that the folks you are serving will truly enjoy, b/c you cared so much to make it "good". I think 've got it totally figured out how to make the best of this mix!
And to your item #3:
" More color and texture might help. I'm thinking mebbe a few cups of cubed carrot, but it's not very imaginative"
No worries about "imaginative". You said you wanted good tasting & NUTRITIOUS. So put in the cubed carrots (and some cubed celery or zucchini?). Sounds like whomever you are serving won't fault you for not being "imaginative".
A HERETIC I AM (9,989 posts) Wed Mar 13, 2013, 12:20 AM
11. I agree with GoCubsGo, but not sure how this will work, based on what you said.....wine.
Add some Chianti to the sauce. Again, not sure how that would work for you, because as you said, "various different people will bring in pots of sauce".
Is there any way you can get the people to bring the sauces in just a bit earlier and put it all together? If so, adding a full bottle of Chianti (or any nice, dry red) for each 2 or 3 gallons of sauce will add color and probably stabilize the flavor, but you need some time for the alcohol to burn off a bit and for it to do its magic.
Also, consider adding ground pork to your meatballs. Pork does wonderful things for tomato based pasta sauce.
struggle4progress (70,552 posts) Wed Mar 13, 2013, 12:50 AM
15. OK. This is a bit dicey. Wine really does add good flavor. But if I use it:
(1) I have to use at least a whole bottle of it, and maybe more, to have any effect on the flavor
and
(2) There must be no obvious indication I used it, and in particular there must be no easily discernible trace of alcohol odor or flavor left
In particular, I have to add the wine while I cooking at home, and the sauce has to cook long enough afterwards to lose any evident alcohol aroma. I'm simply not free to dump a bottle of wine into the sauce in the kitchen forty-five minutes before serving time
Let me now explain why. We're doing this at a site that offers a number of social services, including drug and alcohol rehab. And a certain fraction (by no means all of them) of the diners are in, or have been in, such rehab services. I don't ever even mention drugs or alcohol down there, because some of the folk have sometimes had lives that revolved entirely around drugs or alcohol, and they're trying to recreate lives without that stuff.
I think wine can be added to the sauce to improve it, and I have actually in the past sometimes done that: there's certainly not going to be enough wine in anybody's sauce to have the slightest physiological effect. But if there's enough of an identifiable wine savor to the sauce, I don't know what the psychological effect will be on the rehab gang, and I'm not trying to help someone fall off the wagon.
So when I have added wine, hoping the underlying flavors add richness to the sauce, I have then handled the sauce to eliminate anything that might suggest to anybody "there's wine in this sauce" -- but it's a bit of a bother doing that: I might (say) dump the wine into a large pressure cooker, fill the thing with meat sauce, pressure cook it a while to drive any obvious alcohol odor away, then add that sauce back into the rest of the sauce
So I have to decide if the improvement its worth the trouble
A HERETIC I AM (9,989 posts) Wed Mar 13, 2013, 01:20 AM
16. It probably isn't then.
You are absolutely correct in needing time for it to cook out.
If you are feeding the group you suggest, I imagine it is best to just avoid it if you don't have the extra hour to be sure the wine cooks down.
TreasonousBastard (20,659 posts) Wed Mar 13, 2013, 01:40 AM
18. Cinnamon is a secret ingredient in red sauces, soups....and such stuff to perk it up. I have no idea how much to use in that river of sauce, but I'd think maybe a half teaspoon a gallon to start-- you don't really want to taste the cinnamon, just let it work on the other flavors.
Your original plan is good as are the other ideas in here, so you should have a great sauce.
BTW, the alcohol never cooks completely out when you add wine. It reduces to a very tiny amount, but why take an unnecessary chance? Save the wine for smaller dinners.
One other thought. Might be kinda weird with pasta, but I add garbanzos and black beans to a lot of things. You've already got peppers chopped up in there, so why not?
Brief digression; the "back-story" on the TreasonousBastard primitive.
A few years ago, this primitive was going to make a pot of beans to serve to the homeless. After inquiring of the other primitives about the cheapest beans possible, he got them, and boiled them. In water. Plain water, not even a grain of salt. Just water. Then he was disappointed that the homeless ingrates didn't appreciate it.
Laura PourMeADrink (14,866 posts) Wed Mar 13, 2013, 09:54 PM
28. yes. cinnamon. I have used it before - just a pinch is enough. I had always thought it was used for a Greek version of spaghetti sauce.
TreasonousBastard (20,659 posts) Wed Mar 13, 2013, 10:03 PM
29. Could be, but I got the idea from an Italian girlfriend's mother.
littlemissmartypants (2,912 posts) Wed Mar 13, 2013, 10:31 AM
19. In mine I use olives green or black, not too many though. They add good fat and color.
locks (250 posts) Wed Mar 13, 2013, 01:29 PM
20. nutritious beans
Have you tried cannellini beans?
^^^
cbayer (118,880 posts) Wed Mar 13, 2013, 01:42 PM
21. Sweet italian sausage for some of the meat.
Remove from casings and cook with the other meat. You get a more distinctive taste, particularly the fennel.
Carrots are a good addition, but I always think of this kind of sauce as pretty nutritious to begin with.
I wouldn't do the meatballs, because I just like the meat cooked in. I would brown and degrease on the stovetop after sautéing the other v*****s.
^^^primitive who knows what she's talking about; a primitive who's been around the block a few times, and knows the way things are done.
guardian (2,162 posts) Wed Mar 13, 2013, 04:09 PM
22. Add raw whole potato to absorb acidity. Add raw whole carrot to add natural sweetness. Remove the whole potato/carrot prior to serving. You are making a huge batch. So I don't know how that scales up.
Uh oh.
Somebody's on the internet behind her guardians' backs again.
The pie-and-jam primitive
knows her children and grandchildren don't like her posting on the internet, as it makes her, and them, look silly.
grasswire (36,368 posts) Wed Mar 13, 2013, 05:12 PM
23. what about a topping they can sprinkle on, to their own taste?
Instead of trying to heighten the sauces (difficult), how about making a crumb and cheesy sprinkle that diners can choose to add at table?
Can be toasted bread crumbs made from stale bread, with some inexpensive grated parm, minced parsley or parsley flakes, Italian seasoning, a little dried red pepper flakes, onion powder, garlic powder, etc. A spicy crumb topping.
(21,220 posts) Wed Mar 13, 2013, 08:27 PM
26. I think the bell peppers would add color and "nutrition", but some foods...
... perhaps specifically pasta sauces (be they red- or clam- or Alfredo-based, etc) shouldn't be mucked up with too much focus on nutrition. You'll have cooked veggies and salad on the side -- go for healthy but simply enjoyable with the pasta.
BTW, I love cilantro... but not in spaghetti sauce.
A light touch with cayenne pepper can give a nice spicy bite at the last minute to an already-cooked sauce.
