There seems to be a lot of confusion about benevolent sexism.

[Freeper]

This must be what prompted the thread about opening doors for womyn being sexist.
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,85029.0.html

redqueen (100,580 posts)

There seems to be a lot of confusion about benevolent sexism.

   
Last edited Fri Mar 15, 2013, 12:27 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

This isn't some wacky, made-up term. It's not a sign that 'feminism has gone too far'. It's a real thing, and it provides revealing insights about people's ideas about women and men. It's also not a 'positive' thing.

If you think this is just about holding doors open for anyone, regardless of sex, you're not getting it. If you're curious, please read. If not, well...

Men Don't Recognize 'Benevolent' Sexism: Study

Do most people recognize sexism in their daily lives? And what does it take to get them to shake their sexist beliefs?

In a recent study titled "Seeing the Unseen" psychologists Janet Swim of Pennsylvania State University and Julia Becker of Philipps University Marburg, Germany, set out to answer these questions.

Over the course of three separate, seven-day-long trials, Swim and Becker asked 120 college undergraduates (82 women and 38 men, ranging from 18 to 26 years old, some from the U.S., some from Germany) to record in a journal sexist comments they encountered on a daily basis. According to Swim, she and Becker hoped to determine whether forcing people to pay attention to less obvious forms of sexism could decrease their endorsement of sexist beliefs.

...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/27/men-dont-recognize-benevolent-sexism_n_885430.html


'Benevolent Sexism' Is Not an Oxymoron and Has Insidious Consequences for Women, Experts Argue

"The truth about sexism seems stranger than fiction," wrote authors Peter Glick and Susan T. Fiske, about their investigations into the nature of sexism. Sexist attitudes are not exclusively hostile, but include an "odd…conjunction of what at first seemed inherently incompatible: subjective affection as a form of prejudice," which they labeled "benevolent sexism."

Glick and Fiske have shown the negative consequences of attitudes that idealize women as pure, moral, pedestal-worthy objects of men's adoration, protection, and provision. People who endorse benevolent sexism feel positively toward women, but only when women conform to highly traditional ideals about "how women should be."

Benevolent sexism motivates chivalrous acts that many women may welcome, such as a man's offer to lift heavy boxes or install the new computer. While the path to benevolent sexism may be paved with good intentions, it reinforces the assumption that men possess greater competence than women, whom benevolent sexists view as wonderful, but weak and fragile.

...

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/10/111004121314.htm


Benevolent sexism puts women off asking for help

Benevolent sexism describes insidious behaviours and beliefs that reinforce the idea that women are less capable than men and need their help. It's a controversial idea. It's not always clear if an act, such as a man opening a door for a woman, is simply polite or an example of benevolent sexism. Another issue is whether or not benevolent sexism is harmful. A new study led by Juliet Wakefield claims to show that exposure to benevolent sexism can put women off asking for help. If true, it's a finding that has obvious implications for the workplace, especially in contexts where health and safety could be compromised.

Eighty-six female undergrads arrived one at a time at a psychology lab for what they thought was an investigation into sex differences in reasoning and problem-solving. A female research assistant welcomed them and explained that they'd be interacting with a remote research team via computer. She then went and sat behind a partition in the same room. The three-person remote team were either all male or all female (this was clear from their names), and they proceeded to ask some basic questions of the participant via the computer.

Next, the research assistant's mobile phone rang. It was obvious from her end of the conversation that it was her male plumber "Joe". He'd moved some items in her house without asking - an act that the research assistant blamed either on his impatience or his sexist beliefs. After her call, the research assistant apologised to the participant, either saying "Sorry about that, my plumber is so impatient" or "Sorry about that - my plumber is such a typical man - he thinks that women are incapable of doing anything on their own!"

...

http://bps-research-digest.blogspot.com/2012/12/benevolent-sexism-puts-women-off-asking.html



Saved the best for last... 

Top Conservative Author Endorses ‘Benevolent Sexism’

Charles Murray, a scholar at the leading conservative think tank the American Enterprise Institute, may be the most influential populizer of racist views in the country. His book The Bell Curve, which posits that black people are genetically less intelligent than whites, practically spawned an entire field of scholarship devoted to debunking it. His most recent book, Coming Apart: The State of White America, 1960-2010 even made an appearance on the campaign trial during the recent presidential election.

Murray, however, appears to have set aside his retrograde views about race in order to tout equally backwards views about gender. In a short piece on AEI’s website, Murray recently suggested that “benevolent sexism” might be “healthy.” The only problem is that he appears not to have read the research on which he bases this extraordinary conclusion, which cited strong evidence that “benevolent sexism” was itself linked to discrimination against women and rape victims.

The paper in question, by Kathleen Connelly and Martin Heesacker, studies why “benevolent sexism,” understood as “an ostensibly flattering ideology that idealizes women who conform to feminine norms,” is so commonly accepted by men and women around the world. The authors find that “although benevolent sexism perpetuates inequality at the structural level, it might offer some benefits at the personal level” by giving men and women a sense of order and structure in their lives.

Though the authors see this as a concern, given that so-called benevolent sexism is net-destructive for women, but Murray believes this is knee-jerk liberal prejudice. “When social scientists discover something that increases life satisfaction for both sexes, shouldn’t they at least consider the possibility that they have come across something that is positive? Healthy” he asks rhetorically. “Something that might even conceivably be grounded in the nature of Homo sapiens?”

...

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/01/1262431/top-conservative-author-endorses-benevolent-sexism/


What a stupid, yet sadly all too common, sentiment.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022512182

redqueen (100,580 posts)
2. Well at this point at least no one can claim ignorance.

I cannot begin to express my fed-upness with seeing people dismiss the concept of benevolent sexism with statements like, 'but I open doors for everyone!' ...

Tell you what DUmmy, from now on all DUmmy womyn need to wear a sign or something telling all the decent civilized people of the world to slam the door in your face. We will continue to extend common courtesy to everyone else.

geek tragedy (23,090 posts)
6. It is possible for a man to do things like open a door for women, etc

because that's how they were raised.

Not "open door for women because they need help" but rather "that's just how things are done."

Of course, the assumptions underlying the "that's just how things are done" justification have roots in benevolent sexism that may or may not be instilled in the person.

And, of course, just to be clear: this does not mean that benevolence is itself sexist. Opening a door for people as a matter of courtesy is not sexist.

redqueen (100,580 posts)
8. Yep. Racists were raised to believe certain things about people, too.

And they'd probably rather kneejerk and get defensive than examine their irrational and harmful ideas, too.

So now not only am I sexist if I don't slam the door in a womyn's face it is also racism. 

geek tragedy (23,090 posts)
9. I wouldn't agree that the guy who opens doors

for women as a learned behavior necessarily holds sexist attitudes--behaviorally we get conditioned to do stuff without recognizing the context of the learned behavior--i.e. why that behavior is taught.

People use words and phrases without knowing the context of them--sometimes because they just don't stop to think about it.

But, once it's pointed out, people should stop to examine without feeling accused and like they have to defend themselves.

It's almost impossible to not get some of this stuff ingrained in us, since we're raised in a society that's infused with patriarchy, racism, etc.

 

redqueen (100,580 posts)
10. Does not realizing that it's benevolent sexism make it any less an example of benevolent sexism?

I wonder just how many men even still think and act this way.

I'd think most men would hold the door open for other men, too. I haven't really paid much attention. I do notice the shocked looks when I open the door for men, though. And some men will even refuse to go through, and insist that I go first. 

The way I see it, simply not knowing the context, or not knowing it's benevolent sexism doesn't make it any less sexist.

I do agree that people should stop being defensive and just learn. We've all done many stupid things out of ignorance. The important thing is to not be resistant to information simply because your fee fees are hurt or you feel all personally insulted. That ego-serving bullshit helps no one, least of all the person deciding to become knowledge-resistant because it helps assuage their ego.

Yet if we hurt you widdle feelings then everyone must pay.

liberal_at_heart (3,051 posts)
11. I don't believe opening doors is necessarily sexist. I guess it depends on the individual.

I do believe benevolent sexism exists. My father is one. He believes that big strong men should protect dainty little women.

I tell you what when some fellow DUmmy is raping you and you are done pissing and shitting yourself and blow the rape whistle, when the big strong man comes to your rescue tell him to mind his own business.

As usual they don't understand why some are protective of women. It's not that we think that women are weak and unable to do anything for themselves, we do know that those who will harm women are cowards and will run like hell if confronted by a man. It's the same old story with the libs, they want compassion and understanding for the rapists, but if a big burly man dares defend a woman than he is a thought criminal. I should also mention that decent civilized people will come to anyone's aid if they are being threatened or whatever because we are decent and civilized. It's called being a good person, and only a DUmmy could find fault with that.

BuddhaGirl (2,649 posts)
128. Indeed

My dear hubby generally holds doors open for women (occasionally for other men) and doesn't have a sexist bone in his body.

It's not a big deal

Not according to redqueen, your dear hubby is a sexist pig.

 

[franksolich]

I've been wondering how to handle the redqueer primitive; she's the one who chased Atman off Skins's island, and as a result, the offerings here in the DUmpster have suffered.

Bitch.

[jtyangel]

People use words and phrases without knowing the context of them--sometimes because they just don't stop to think about it.

And sometimes they shouldn't; it's called over thinking. The whole discussion of 'benevolent sexism' is a 'word or phrase' that has been learned ie dumbasses, some of you have been told to believe this is an issue. I think what should take priority in the review of such pleasantries is whether such 'sexism' hurts anyone. Is holding a door for someone in any way oppressive or hostile towards the potentially offended party or can it just be seen as a courtesy? Since the action, no matter it's source, it not threatening or demeaning in anyway, how one could question it is beyond me. I like that men still behave like chivalrous men(some of them). I think dumbass feminists seem to miss that what they see as sexism for certain behaviors is a POSITIVE for women. We never will be as physically intimidating as men so there is some level of inherent safety in encouraging men to continue to see women as something to protect. The alternative, and it plays out in many 3rd world countries, is to see women as just a utensil OR to see women as a complete equal, including capable of defending herself in a hostile situation no matter the size or ability of her aggressor. All this boils back to these dumbasses thinking they actually are equal in every way. They think by admitting women are less physically intimidating is somehow diminishing their mental acuity. It's really an apples and oranges discussion. Me, I want to keep the good guys nearby to defend me in case I ever run into the bad guys. I don't want them standing nearby saying, go girl, you fight your own battles if I'm being attacked. No thanks; they can keep that bs for themselves.

[vesta111]

I've been wondering how to handle the redqueer primitive; she's the one who chased Atman off Skins's island, and as a result, the offerings here in the DUmpster have suffered.

Bitch.

Sexism is simply the knowledge that men and woman are different. 

 Is it sexist to have the male lead the female in a dance ?  Is it sexist that only females can give birth ?
Is it sexist that men have upper body strength and woman lower body strength ??     Is it sexists that some prefer a female doctor over a male ?

Sexism comes down to manors, tradition and common sense.   


 

[Dori]

Benevolent sexism?  What a bunch of gobbly gook.  This is what our universities are giving us.  I was just reading about Brown U. having workshops on how to pleasure your scrotum.  Really?  

The self appointed intelligent ones promote promiscuity yet get offended by simple politeness.  What if a lesbian or gay man held the door for a heterosexual woman? Will our halls of higher education start offering classes and write research papers on same sex benevolent sexism?


 

[Carl]

The feminazis seem to be getting their dicks hard over how much the fag army is demanding absolute and permant top victim group at the DUmp.

[Maxiest]

I guess I am sexist and racist and a bunch of other things.  I open the door for everyone.  I just always have, I was raised to be polite.

I open it for young women, old women, black women, Asian women, young men, old men, black men, Asian men, Hispanic men, who ever is coming through the door.  I can't imagine how many bad things I am for being polite to everyone regardless of sex, race, or religion.

[Freeper]

I guess I am sexist and racist and a bunch of other things.  I open the door for everyone.  I just always have, I was raised to be polite.

I open it for young women, old women, black women, Asian women, young men, old men, black men, Asian men, Hispanic men, who ever is coming through the door.  I can't imagine how many bad things I am for being polite to everyone regardless of sex, race, or religion.

Can't you see you do that not to be kind and decent? You do that because you think you are superior to everyone and by opening doors you are putting people in their place. You sick bastard you.

 

[Freeper]

This is the topic DU jour so I found another thread on it, and this amazing post.

redqueen (100,595 posts)
1. Benevolent sexism ties into rape culture.

This lounge thread is dismissive.

Major Nikon (9,029 posts)
2. Holding doors for women = rape

Good point.

No sarcasm icon but it appears this DUmmy is mocking the Red drag Queen.

redqueen (100,595 posts)
13. That's not what I said. And you know it. Why are you twisting words to dismiss feminist concerns?

Last edited Sat Mar 16, 2013, 11:30 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

Is honest discussion that difficult for you?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=benevolent+sexism+victim+blaming

NaturalHigh (4,250 posts)
7. That is the craziest thing I've read in a long time...

and believe me, that's saying something.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022517339

Looks like this is going to bring us some comedy gold.
Red drag Queen on her crusade to make men stop holding doors for wommyn.
 

[Freeper]

This thread started by the Red drag Queen giving links to prove that she is still bat shit crazy and there are others just like her.

redqueen (100,597 posts)

If you're unsure why benevolent sexism is worth discussing,Google 'benevolent sexism victim blaming'


 
Last edited Sat Mar 16, 2013, 12:06 PM USA/ET - Edit history (4)

http://www.google.com/search?q=benevolent+sexism+victim+blaming&hl=en&

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=benevolent+sexism+victim+blaming&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C44&as_vis=1

I get that many of you seriously don't care, good for you. Be proud.

For those that actually might, I thought I'd offer something more enlightening than the average YouTube quality comments.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022517432

Buzz Clik (27,043 posts)
1. This is coming directly from the holding doors open discussion? Right?

If someone opens a door for me, am I about to get raped? I'm serious. A lot of people open doors for me, and I don't want to get raped.

And, being the kind of person who takes a kind gesture and pays it forward, I hold doors open, too. Does that mean I am a latent rapist?

 

redqueen (100,597 posts)
2. No, from the benevolent sexism discussion.

But congrats on your continuing the herculean efforts to mock and trivialize feminist issues.

Honey, when you say shit like opening doors for women is sexist you have trivialized feminist issues all by yourself.

I have to admit her fellow DUmmies are giving her hell over this, she even has her own "Zappaman" following her from thread to thread.

redqueen (100,597 posts)
21. You care that little about the ideas which fuel rape culture.

Rape culture, which is why Steubenville happened. Why Jyoti Singh was raped and murdered. Why Anene Booysen was gang raped and murdered. Why sexual harassment is something girls start experiencing in elementary school.

Got it, thanks.

Major Nikon (9,029 posts)
22. Holding doors open for women = Steubenville rapes

Good point

 

[Freeper]

We now have a thread mocking Red drag Queen.

sibelian (2,485 posts)

So if you hold a door open for an invisible person in a forest...


 

whilst clapping with one hand....

Um, I'm losing the plot here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022516954

Click the link for once you won't be sorry, they are really giving it to her.
 

[Carl]

Little do they realize that she/it is the natural extension of everything they believe.
Redqueen is just ahead of the curve.

[Freeper]

Little do they realize that she/it is the natural extension of everything they believe.
Redqueen is just ahead of the curve.

Ahead of the moonbat curve. 

[Big Dog]

If the red queen DUmmy gets angry at hearing "May I hold that door for you?", imagine how she'd react to "Can I push in your stool?"



 

[Celtic Rose]

When I was shopping the other day I said "excuse me" to a guy to get around him with my cart, and he turned around and said "Ladies first.  I know how it works" with a wink.  I smiled and laughed a bit, too bad that I didn't know I was supposed to be offended. 

[Carl]

We now have a thread mocking Red drag Queen.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022516954

Click the link for once you won't be sorry, they are really giving it to her.
 

seabeyond (84,147 posts)
20. yes. it is so ****in entertaining lying about others to dismiss a very real issue of sexism that

women live with daily. we understand you men like to be bullies on the net and "joke" and laugh and play at the expense of women, for your entertainment. and see it as a big ole game. we know sexism. we know misogyny. you men create a world of it for us to live in.

so hearing you acknowledge that this is all a ****in fun game for you, says about everything, and what DU has been allowed to become.

very hostile toward women.

and FUN for you men.

The only thing that ever held you back is being one of the stupidest people to have ever lived.

[Freeper]

When I was shopping the other day I said "excuse me" to a guy to get around him with my cart, and he turned around and said "Ladies first.  I know how it works" with a wink.  I smiled and laughed a bit, too bad that I didn't know I was supposed to be offended. 

Turns out he is part of the rape culture. Make sure you always have a full bladder and full tummy and a whistle in case one of these creeps tries something with you.

 

[dixierose]

So what to they think about women like me who hold doors open for anyone? Is that ok?

 

[Maxiest]

When I was shopping the other day I said "excuse me" to a guy to get around him with my cart, and he turned around and said "Ladies first.  I know how it works" with a wink.  I smiled and laughed a bit, too bad that I didn't know I was supposed to be offended. 

You just set feminism back 100 years.  Good Job.

[Maxiest]

Jackpine Radical (36,341 posts)
1. At all depends.

Is the invisible rabbit person female, male, trans, or indeterminate?

sibelian (2,485 posts)
3. That's offensive to non-existent people.

Last edited Sat Mar 16, 2013, 08:54 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

How can you so casually dismiss the non-daily non-struggles of the beingly challenged?

You need to have a goooooood look at yourself.

Ahh, mocking themselves.  This couldn't get any better.

[Freeper]

So what to they think about women like me who hold doors open for anyone? Is that ok?

 

They don't think.

I would imagine a woman holding a door open is proof that the poor woman is so oppressed by her male masters that she acts like a door stop for all of society.  

[vesta111]

I guess I am sexist and racist and a bunch of other things.  I open the door for everyone.  I just always have, I was raised to be polite.

I open it for young women, old women, black women, Asian women, young men, old men, black men, Asian men, Hispanic men, who ever is coming through the door.  I can't imagine how many bad things I am for being polite to everyone regardless of sex, race, or religion.

A truer word ever spoken.   Decorum is fast going round the bend.   No manors are taught anymore as parents allow their kids to have no respect for anyone, not even their own family.

Social skills not taught , males over the age of 13 to 23 that do not know how to even shake a hand when approbate.  Grown men that take 80 year old grandma to dinner that just plop into their own chair leaving Grandma to attempt to wrestle her chair out from under the table.

Strange world, a male or female that has manors, no matter how rich or poor will have a better chance in life if they have the social skills, know how to show respect------and demand it from others.

The South is big on this, unless you are the same age as another, one does not call them by first name unless asked to.   EX MIL referred to her husband as MR Smith, when asked her name it was MRS Smith.  

Rules to come to the table, no hats, no tank tops and first everyone washed their hands.   Didn't matter if the guests were field workers they showed respect.

  

[Chris_]

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 09:50 AM
Star Member Jackpine Radical (36,341 posts)

1. At all depends.

Is the invisible rabbit person female, male, trans, or indeterminate?

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 09:54 AM
sibelian (2,486 posts)

3. That's offensive to non-existent people.

How can you so casually dismiss the non-daily non-struggles of the beingly challenged?

You need to have a goooooood look at yourself.

Someone is gonna be in T-R-O-U-B-L-E.

[Chris_]

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 11:43 AM
Star Member seabeyond (84,158 posts)

20. yes. it is so ****in entertaining lying about others to dismiss a very real issue of sexism that women live with daily. we understand you men like to be bullies on the net and "joke" and laugh and play at the expense of women, for your entertainment. and see it as a big ole game. we know sexism. we know misogyny. you men create a world of it for us to live in.

so hearing you acknowledge that this is all a ****in fun game for you, says about everything, and what DU has been allowed to become.

very hostile toward women.

and FUN for you men.

 

 

[GOBUCKS]

I've been wondering how to handle the redqueer primitive; she's the one who chased Atman off Skins's island, and as a result, the offerings here in the DUmpster have suffered.

Bitch.

What's the over/under on Pedro's return?

I'm surprised he's been gone this long.

(I think DUmmy seabeyond was the guilty harpy in driving away Pedro.)