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Stinky The Clown (49,993 posts) Wed Feb 20, 2013, 09:10 AMUndeniable fact: If the 9 mm had not been there, she would not be dead.Last edited Wed Feb 20, 2013, 10:40 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)The model in the athlete's house would likely still be alive had that gun not been there. The trajectory was up, or it was down. The lights were on, or they were off. There were screams, or there were not. He had his legs on, or he did not. He killed her intentionally or he did not. All of that is beside the point. She is dead. The only gun in the house was caused to fire the shot that that killed her. It is a FACT: Had the gun not been there, she would absolutely not be dead by gunshot, and almost certainly would not be dead by some other means. The rest of this sad case is debatable and will ultimately be found to have happened one way or another by a South African court. I must confess. I am really at a loss to understand the shitty-toned replies to my OP. I am not defending the man. Personally, I think he's guilty as hell. The point of my OP was that when guns are present, the likelihood of mayhem increases. We can debate whether or not he would have killed her with a bat or a knife or the candlestick in the library. But the fact is he killed her with a gun and if it wasn't there, he would not have killed her with a gun. If he didn't shoot her, the possibility that she would still be alive seems, logically to me, far greater than otherwise. Beyond the fact that she would not be dead by gunshot, it is entirely possible she would not be dead, period. Which is what the OP said.
obamanut2012 (9,841 posts) Wed Feb 20, 2013, 09:16 AM5. He would have used his hands or the cricket batIt appears from prelim reports he DID use the cricket bat. Reeva would have been dead no matter what.
Stinky The Clown (49,993 posts) Wed Feb 20, 2013, 09:19 AM 7. Conjecture. Unlike the OP, which is an undeniable fact.
cali (77,327 posts) Wed Feb 20, 2013, 09:53 AM16. hmm. not even close. much more conjecture and opinion than fact
cali (77,327 posts) Wed Feb 20, 2013, 09:52 AM15. You contradict yourself. First you say it's undeniable fact that she would not be dead, then you say it's likely she would be alive. they both cannot be true. I'll go with the latter- to a degree. It's unknowable. We don't know with any degree of certainty, Pistorius' state of mind. We do know that there was a cricket bat taken from the house. You can't possibly come to a logical conclusion that she " almost certainly would not be dead by some other means. ". the most one can accurately state is that she had a better chance of not being killed had no gun been in the house.
WinkyDink (36,350 posts) Wed Feb 20, 2013, 10:19 AM23. The contradictory title and body show a desire for an argument.
cali (77,327 posts) Wed Feb 20, 2013, 10:28 AM34. Maybe not. It looks like the op has left his threadIt's not a well crafted argument.
Stinky The Clown (49,993 posts) Wed Feb 20, 2013, 11:21 AM49. .OO
cali (77,327 posts) Wed Feb 20, 2013, 12:34 PM76. brilliant response to my points, stinky!wow, how can anyone possibly dispute your "facts"?
OmahaBlueDog (8,673 posts) Wed Feb 20, 2013, 11:33 AM53. Your post contradicts itselfUndeniable fact: If the 9 mm had not been there, she would not be dead. In the title, you present this as indisputable, pure fact. Just as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, she would not be dead. Then... The model in the athlete's house would likely still be alive had that gun not been there. Well now wait a minute...undisputible fact has now become "the sun will most likely rise in the east and set in the west, but we're not quite sure." Then... It is a FACT: Had the gun not been there, she would absolutely not be dead by gunshot, Well yeah, if a gun is not there, she's most likely not dead by gunshot, just as someone who dies in a falling accident is most likely not dead if the cliff is not there or someone who dies in a plane crash is likely still alive if they didn't fly. The next statement, however, is somewhat of a leap in logic. and almost certainly would not be dead by some other means. That's a stretch. The cops have indicated that testosterone was found; we know the prime suspect (not withstanding his legs) is a world class athlete, and the police have indicated the victim had been beaten with a cricket wicket, which is not unlike being beaten with a baseball bat or a 2 x 4". I would ask the reasonable question "If a world class athlete on steroids were beating OmahaBlueDog with a 2 x 4", could that kill him?" The answer is certainly in the affirmative. I realize that Stinky The Clown would like to beat OmahaBlueDog with a 2 x 4" right about now, but that's another subject...
Stinky The Clown (49,993 posts) Wed Feb 20, 2013, 11:49 AM58. Your last line is . . . .Ah ****it Go target practice.
cali (77,327 posts) Wed Feb 20, 2013, 12:35 PM77. yet another non-response to the claims you nsist are facts.
They rightly wiped the floor with Stinks, and he deserved it. What a complete waste time his OP was. What does he do all day, anyway?
Response to graham4anything (Reply #47)Wed Feb 20, 2013, 02:18 PMBake (21,058 posts) 85. The Supreme Court says you're wrong.You can't abrogate the 2nd Amendment by going in the back door and banning bullets. But nice try, thanks for playing. And your last sentence appears to be more a statement of your opinion than of verifiable fact. Bake
Response to Bake (Reply #85)Wed Feb 20, 2013, 02:42 PM graham4anything (5,271 posts) 91. Chief Justice Obama will in a few years render quite a different opinion.after all any supreme court is only tendered on the members who opine. President Clinton, will nominate President Obama to the US Supreme Court, (probably 2018), and some years after, he will become Chief Justice. Hopefully, to coin a clintonian phrase, Sooner rather than later. I for one am hoping the corrupt five will retire once it is evident the democratic party will keep the presidency for many years forward.
I for one am hoping the corrupt five will retire once it is evident the democratic party will keep the presidency for many years forward.
It is a FACT: Had the gun not been there, she would absolutely not be dead by gunshot
Not sure what DUmmy Mike does all day, but it's almost certain to be more than what broken-legged, earwig-warning, hilariously-wallduded, permanently-unemployed DUmmy cali does with her time.
That was a chuck Norris sized beat down if I ever saw one on Stinkbait. He should have just stayed quiet and wore the TuTu.
