American Taxpayer Relief Act Passes Senate

[Ausonius]

With the "American Taxpayer Relief Act" we see that DoubleThink is alive and well in America: a tax hike on small-business people at $400,000 and KEEPING RATES THE SAME are now being called - and apparently with no irony - "Taxpayer Relief" !!!

See:

http://www.radioiowa.com/2013/01/01/iowans-vote-against-senate-fiscal-cliff-plan/

An excerpt:

Senator Chuck Grassley issued the following comment about his vote against the year-end tax plan.

 â€œIt’d be one thing to raise taxes to reduce the deficit, but that’s not what this deal does. It’s a fiscal farce to raise taxes and hurt economic growth only to fuel more government spending with record deficits and debt. People at the grass roots want Washington to spend less, not more. Failure to deal with spending lets them down. Spending restraint ought to be more than a wishful new year’s resolution with no way to be certain it’s kept.

“I support preventing tax increases on Americans by extending the tax cuts I authored in the Senate in the last decade. After the election, Republican leaders in Congress offered revenue increases as part of a balanced deal that would also take on Washington’s spending problem. Instead, the President focused on raising taxes and missed a significant opportunity to tackle spending. Washington has a spending problem, not a taxing problem, and this deal doesn’t do anything about the spending problem.

A further irony is that this bill really will take us over the "Fiscal Cliff" by rocketing us toward national bankruptcy.

So...Will Boehner and Company point this out to America and refuse to go along with this idiocy of raising taxes on a dying economy while spending even more to bring bankruptcy ever closer? Well, I hope so, but I am enough of a realist to suspect that they will swallow MAObama's... insults and vote to increase the speed of the Ship of State toward the iceberg of bankruptcy. Democracy in action as portrayed by democratic inaction: to quote W.C. Fields "It baffles science!"

[marv]

In the end, Congress will avoid the Fiscal Cliff, and choose Obama's Fecal Cliff instead!

[Traveshamockery]

Marco Rubio 2016!

[thundley4]

In the end, Congress will avoid the Fiscal Cliff, and choose Obama's Fecal Cliff instead!

Nice. Might steal that.

[Ausonius]

Marco Rubio 2016!

Yes, but how much damage will America have suffered by then?  

Trillions deeper in debt in apparent perpetuity, which condition of course will be impossible, since complete collapse will occur eventually at the present rate.

[rich_t]

Welcome to the new Greece.

[Baby Shampoo]

With the "American Taxpayer Relief Act" we see that DoubleThink is alive and well in America: a tax hike on small-business people at $400,000 and KEEPING RATES THE SAME are now being called - and apparently with no irony - "Taxpayer Relief" !!!

What percentage of small business owners make $400,000 or more?

[CG6468]

Welcome to the new Greece.

"You want everything on that gyro?"

[Ausonius]

What percentage of small business owners make $400,000 or more?

What difference does it make?

See:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/steveparrish/2012/12/19/small-business-owners-and-taxable-income-setting-the-record-straight/

Salient excerpts:

...An owner of a flow-through entity may show a high taxable income, but not have much actual cash to show for it in any one year. I had an S Corp owner say to me he was “rich on paper, but poor on cash flow.”...

...if you own a small business, you are often paying the equivalent of double the amount of employment taxes as what your non-owner employees are paying. This is particularly hard on partnerships and most LLC members who participate in management, ...

...Fringe Benefits: The 2% Rule – Without getting into the details, most owners of small businesses are actually subject to reverse discrimination when it comes to taxation of fringe benefits....
Small business owners may show a lot of income for tax purposes, but they don’t always have that income to spend.[/quote]

[NHSparky]

What percentage of small business owners make $400,000 or more?

Actually, a fairly decent percentage--but that's not to say they're making $400K in PROFIT.  Something to keep in mind when unemployment starts taking off again.

[Baby Shampoo]

Actually, a fairly decent percentage--but that's not to say they're making $400K in PROFIT.  Something to keep in mind when unemployment starts taking off again.

What percentage?

[J P Sousa]

What percentage of small business owners make $400,000 or more?

As a business owner I am not making anywhere near that BUT the current system of taxes make having a business almost impossible. Regulations on business is a "hidden tax", costing businesses billions each year. There is a "trickle down" effect of taxing larger business that small businss must deal with in every day transactions. These higher taxes on business often "pass-through" to consumers in higher prices.

I suspect you are one of the 47% who don't pay federal income taxes BUT want to bankrupt businesses who create jobs. You do know where jobs come from don't you ?     Hint, it's NOT the government.

Also, the federal government is not the only taxing authority, every business pays state income tax and "unemployment tax", County tax, Township tax, School tax and on and on.......

As somebody earlier said, people who own a business pay DOUBLE the social security tax.

 The Social Security portion of the tax is 12.4% up to $102,000 (in 2008) and the Medicare portion is 2.9%. Employees pay half of this tax and their employers pay the other half. Self-employed individuals pay the entire amount.  

http://biztaxlaw.about.com/od/businesstaxes/a/selfemploytax.htm

Almost forgot, if you make a profit you pay additional tax on profit.
.

[NHSparky]

What percentage?

What do I look like, the Chamber of ****ing Commerce?

Here.  Read these:

http://smallbiztrends.com/2010/11/how-much-money-do-small-business-owners-make.html

http://www.irs.gov/uac/Tax-Stats-2

While the income of the average S corp was less than seven percent of its sales, there was wide variation across major industry sectors on this measure. Income only equaled about two percent of sales for sub chapter S corporations in retail, but almost 55 percent in management of companies, and almost 29 percent in mining. Similarly, wide industry differences can be seen in the average income of these businesses, ranging from only a little more than $28,000 in other services to $692,000 in management of companies. In fact, in four industry sectors – utilities, manufacturing, mining and management of companies – the average Sub Chapter S Corporation is making its owner rich by President Obama’s standards, generating more than $250,000 in income in 2007

.

Bottom line, small business owners are just that--SMALL, but are being hit like they're major corporations, but without the benefit of sheltering their revenue or profits like the big boys do (like, say, GE, Google, Berkshire Hathaway, etc...)

[Maxiest]

What percentage?

I am not sure and there is no true statistic out there just a bunch of educated guesses.

I do know, I have worked for many.

One a small computer repair shop in the area.  We had 5 employees, we grossed about 1.3 million in sales/service, our net was about 250k and with that he had to pay 5 employees and the bills.  I was pretty much his right hand man and even though he had a CPA do all his taxes and such, he paid nearly 48% in taxes. 

Now we really wanted to expand, we had a good game plan, good clients, good products, great store front.  Our dream was to open a second location.  But we just couldn't, we needed to hire a few more people because we were stretched thin with our current contract clients.  With maybe 2 new employees we could get a little extra profit and then migrate to a new store.  Anyway... long story short.  If he were taxes say 5-8% less he could have afforded to hire some more people and grow, thus hiring more people creating more jobs, etc etc etc

But you dummies are to narrow minded to see this.  He wasn't filthy rich and took care of us as good as he could.  But to you... He is.  And because of your ****ing policies he will never grow and more people will sit at home and the government dole.  Hell, he will probably close down eventually because it's an uphill battle.  **** you DUmmies.

[Jasonw560]

What percentage?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say....

53%   

[Baby Shampoo]

I am not sure and there is no true statistic out there just a bunch of educated guesses.

I do know, I have worked for many.

One a small computer repair shop in the area.  We had 5 employees, we grossed about 1.3 million in sales/service, our net was about 250k and with that he had to pay 5 employees and the bills.  I was pretty much his right hand man and even though he had a CPA do all his taxes and such, he paid nearly 48% in taxes.  

Now we really wanted to expand, we had a good game plan, good clients, good products, great store front.  Our dream was to open a second location.  But we just couldn't, we needed to hire a few more people because we were stretched thin with our current contract clients.  With maybe 2 new employees we could get a little extra profit and then migrate to a new store.  Anyway... long story short.  If he were taxes say 5-8% less he could have afforded to hire some more people and grow, thus hiring more people creating more jobs, etc etc etc

The problem is that net income is not what you think it is. Those with a net income of $400,000 will receive a tax increase. Do we agree on that?
Now look at the definition of "net income".
“Net income” is the phrase commonly used to refer to a company’s “profit.” It represents how much money the company has left over, if any, after it’s paid the costs of doing business — payroll, raw materials, taxes, interest on loans, etc." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7477449/ns/business-answer_desk/t/whats-difference-between-revenue-income/

Therefore, your little business did not reach $400,000 or even $250,000 in net income. If you type how much you paid your employees I will teach you how to figure out what your net income was.

[Mr Mannn]

a tax hike on small-business people at $400,000

This is going to kill the family farm.

[Ausonius]

Bottom line, small business owners are just that--SMALL, but are being hit like they're major corporations, but without the benefit of sheltering their revenue or profits like the big boys do (like, say, GE, Google, Berkshire Hathaway, etc...)

Who have paid the Democrats and Fearless Leader From Behind BIG BRObama, good sums to get exemptions of all kinds.  

"Baby Shampoo": It is called "crony capitalism"

e.g.

President Obama’s re-election ... marks the massive endorsement of an expanding crony capitalism that ultimately could reshape the already troubled American economic system beyond recognition.

See:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin/2012/11/07/the-biggest-winners-from-president-obamas-re-election-crony-capitalists/

and other things like EPA exemptions save MAObama's crony capitalists money:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/surprise-ge-scores-first-exemption-from-obama-greenhouse-gas-regulations/

But just one month later, the Obama administration has begun handing out exemptions from the rules, starting with a power plant project stocked with technology from the company whose boss now leads the president’s own Council on Jobs and Competitiveness — Jeffrey Immelt’s GE.  Greenwire reports:      The Obama administration will spare a stalled power plant project in California from the newest federal limits on greenhouse gases and conventional air pollution, U.S. EPA says in a new court filing that marks a policy shift in the face of industry groups and Republicans accusing the agency of holding up construction of large industrial facilities.  

   

[NHSparky]

The problem is that net income is not what you think it is. Those with a net income of $400,000 will receive a tax increase. Do we agree on that?
Now look at the definition of "net income".
“Net income” is the phrase commonly used to refer to a company’s “profit.” It represents how much money the company has left over, if any, after it’s paid the costs of doing business — payroll, raw materials, taxes, interest on loans, etc." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7477449/ns/business-answer_desk/t/whats-difference-between-revenue-income/

Therefore, your little business did not reach $400,000 or even $250,000 in net income. If you type how much you paid your employees I will teach you how to figure out what your net income was.

It's painfully apparent then you haven't the first friggin clue how an S-corp or LLC works then.

[Mr Mannn]

It's painfully apparent then you haven't the first friggin clue how an S-corp or LLC works then.

Well, seeing that he's quoting the propaganda arm of the democrat party (msnbc). I doubt he can discuss anything beyond the talking points he's given.

[J P Sousa]

The problem is that net income is not what you think it is. Those with a net income of $400,000 will receive a tax increase. Do we agree on that?
Now look at the definition of "net income".
“Net income” is the phrase commonly used to refer to a company’s “profit.” It represents how much money the company has left over, if any, after it’s paid the costs of doing business — payroll, raw materials, taxes, interest on loans, etc." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7477449/ns/business-answer_desk/t/whats-difference-between-revenue-income/

Therefore, your little business did not reach $400,000 or even $250,000 in net income.  

Now look up "S corporation" where many small business owners formed their business. Everything is figured on a personal income tax return.

New Ernst & Young Study on Top Rates
Posted by admin on July 17, 2012

  The study points out that this policy would raise the top tax rate on S corporation and other flow-through income from 35 percent to nearly 45 percent.  As a result, the marginal effective tax rate on new business investment would be more than 15 percent higher than it is today, discouraging businesses from investing in new plant and equipment and resulting, overtime, in fewer jobs and lower wages.  

http://www.s-corp.org/2012/07/17/new-ernst-young-study-on-top-rates/

.

[Freeper]

Just the fact that they named this the American Taxpayer Relief Act scares me half to death. Every time they name a bill as "affordable", or have "relief" in the title it is an Orwellian term and we are about to get screwed without the common courtesy of lube and a reach around.

[Maxiest]

The problem is that net income is not what you think it is. Those with a net income of $400,000 will receive a tax increase. Do we agree on that?
Now look at the definition of "net income".
“Net income” is the phrase commonly used to refer to a company’s “profit.” It represents how much money the company has left over, if any, after it’s paid the costs of doing business — payroll, raw materials, taxes, interest on loans, etc." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7477449/ns/business-answer_desk/t/whats-difference-between-revenue-income/

Therefore, your little business did not reach $400,000 or even $250,000 in net income. If you type how much you paid your employees I will teach you how to figure out what your net income was.

You just made my point for me.  He paid nearly 48% in taxes without reaching a net of $250,000....  And this caused him problems in expanding and hiring.  So don't you think it will do the same for those with a net over $400,000?

[Baby Shampoo]

Well, seeing that he's quoting the propaganda arm of the democrat party (msnbc). I doubt he can discuss anything beyond the talking points he's given.

Are you saying that net income is not what the definition in the MSNBC link says it is? What is your definition of net income?

[Big Dog]

The problem is that net income is not what you think it is. Those with a net income of $400,000 will receive a tax increase. Do we agree on that?
Now look at the definition of "net income".
“Net income” is the phrase commonly used to refer to a company’s “profit.” It represents how much money the company has left over, if any, after it’s paid the costs of doing business — payroll, raw materials, taxes, interest on loans, etc." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7477449/ns/business-answer_desk/t/whats-difference-between-revenue-income/

Therefore, your little business did not reach $400,000 or even $250,000 in net income. If you type how much you paid your employees I will teach you how to figure out what your net income was.

"Net income" is not the same as "profit". BS for you.