Uh-oh...profile of shooter developing...not good for DUmmies.

[BannedFromDU]

Turns out the kid may have had Ass Burgers and was on meds.

Which describes what, 75% of DU?

And the school was in an extremely affluent area, definitely 1%-er land.

Only question that remains for me is...what was his DU name?


(RIP poor children, and condolences to the families...I apologize to you for the entire world that DU and the MSM will seize on this tragedy for political purposes...)

[Skul]

Here's one.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/12/live-updates-newtown-ct-school-shooting/

[BannedFromDU]

Star Member Cetacea (5,676 posts)

View profile
Let the discrimination against the mentally ill begin. A PSA on mental illness and violence
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar,and evil is just evil.


Fact 1: The vast majority of people with mental illness are not violent. (no more so than the general population)


Fact 2: The public is misinformed about the link between mental illness and violence.


Fact 3: Inaccurate beliefs about mental illness and violence lead to widespread stigma and discrimination


Fact 4: The link between mental illness and violence is promoted by the entertainment and news media. (and pundits)


"The effects of stigma and discrimination are profound. The President’s New Freedom Commission on Mental Health found that, “Stigma leads others to avoid living, socializing, or working with, renting to, or employing people with mental disorders - especially severe disorders, such as schizophrenia. It leads to low self-esteem, isolation, and hopelessness. It deters the public from seeking and wanting to pay for care. Responding to stigma, people with mental health problems internalize public attitudes and become so embarrassed or ashamed that they often conceal symptoms and fail to seek treatment (New Freedom Commission, 2003).”

Let the DU squirming begin.

[Linda]

Fact 1: The vast majority of people that own guns are not violent. (no more so than the general population)


Fact 2: The public is misinformed about the link between gun owners and violence.


Fact 3: Inaccurate beliefs about gun owners and violence lead to widespread stigma and discrimination


Fact 4: The link between gun owners and violence is promoted by the entertainment and news media. (and pundits)

[CactusCarlos]

Fact 1: The vast majority of people with mental illness law-abiding gun-owners are not violent. (no more so than the general population)


Fact 2: The public is misinformed about the link between mental illness lawful gun-ownership and violence.


Fact 3: Inaccurate beliefs about mental illness and violence law-abiding gun owners lead to widespread stigma and discrimination


Fact 4: The link between mental illness lawful gun ownership and violence is promoted by the entertainment and news media. (and pundits)Lamestream Media and liberal pundits

You're welcome!  

[CactusCarlos]

Fact 1: The vast majority of people that own guns are not violent. (no more so than the general population)


Fact 2: The public is misinformed about the link between gun owners and violence.


Fact 3: Inaccurate beliefs about gun owners and violence lead to widespread stigma and discrimination


Fact 4: The link between gun owners and violence is promoted by the entertainment and news media. (and pundits)

GMTA! 

H5!

[formerlurker]

Anyone who would do something so horrific has to be mentally ill in some capacity.

[98ZJUSMC]

Anyone who would do something so horrific has to be mentally ill in some capacity.

That's what it looks like.

[longview]

Dang.  The kid from CT who came to Casper (WY) College and killed his dad's girlfriend, the dad (while teaching a class), and himself with a crossbow also had Asperger's, supposedly.  I'm kind of doubting the quality of diagnosis and mental health care in CT.

[miskie]

I suppose that there will soon be threads about how 'aspies' are the nicest people one could ever hope to meet, and are entirely incapable of this sort of violence.

Well, Ill tell you what primitives- 'aspies' are perfectly capable of violence - the disorder presents sociopath-like behavior in some cases. Not to mention, the people with Asperger's are still human, and are capable of independent thoughts & actions. The Shooter was 20 years old-  more than capable of making up his apparently twisted mind to do something barbaric.

At least he had the courtesy to check himself out once his rampage had ended - because his diagnosis would have kept him alive & in an institution at taxpayer's expense for the rest of his days, instead of six feet under where his sorry child-killing ass belongs.

[Tucker]

No link yet. (I've read too many articles to backtrack)

I read that the shooter has two 9mm handguns and a AR-15. The AR-15 was found in his vehicle without being discharged. The shooters assault was did with the handguns.

[Toastedturningtidelegs]

I suppose that there will soon be threads about how 'aspies' are the nicest people one could ever hope to meet, and are entirely incapable of this sort of violence.

Well, Ill tell you what primitives- 'aspies' are perfectly capable of violence - the disorder presents sociopath-like behavior in some cases. Not to mention, the people with Asperger's are still human, and are capable of independent thoughts & actions. The Shooter was 20 years old-  more than capable of making up his apparently twisted mind to do something barbaric.

At least he had the courtesy to check himself out once his rampage had ended - because his diagnosis would have kept him alive & in an institution at taxpayer's expense for the rest of his days, instead of six feet under where his sorry child-killing ass belongs.

Not if there is  psychosis present co-morbidly. Some aspies i've dealt with can be a bit aggressive as children but i have never met one who carried that out into adulthood...especially since his mother was a teacher and would have been able to access help for her son easier and been able to spot developmental deficits easier than most folks. I really dont think this had anything to do with his autism...he had something else going on there besides.

[miskie]

Not if there is  psychosis present co-morbidly. Some aspies i've dealt with can be a bit aggressive as children but i have never met one who carried that out into adulthood...especially since his mother was a teacher and would have been able to access help for her son easier and been able to spot developmental deficits easier than most folks. I really dont think this had anything to do with his autism...he had something else going on there besides.

None of us will never know what was going on in his head - But I am working the thesis that the shooter intended to rid the world of everything tied to his mom, including himself. We can only wonder exactly 'why' he would want to do that, unless something turns up..

[blitzkrieg_17]

Not if there is  psychosis present co-morbidly. Some aspies i've dealt with can be a bit aggressive as children but i have never met one who carried that out into adulthood...especially since his mother was a teacher and would have been able to access help for her son easier and been able to spot developmental deficits easier than most folks. I really dont think this had anything to do with his autism...he had something else going on there besides.

I am not a medical professional but he could have just been a run of the mill psychopath. There really isn't much that will help those types.

[BlueStateSaint]

No link yet. (I've read too many articles to backtrack)

I read that the shooter has two 9mm handguns and a AR-15. The AR-15 was found in his vehicle without being discharged. The shooters assault was did with the handguns.

All of them belonged to his mother, whom he murdered with one of the weapons first.  The handguns were a Glock and a Sig.  The M-4-type carbine wasn't used.

[txradioguy]

Y'all wanna see some heads explode at the DUmp?

Wait till the DUmmies get wind of the AP report I saw that said the guns used in the shooting belonged to the shooters dead mother who taught at the school.

[Toastedturningtidelegs]

I am not a medical professional but he could have just been a run of the mill psychopath. There really isn't much that will help those types.

According to his brother he also has a personality disorder{he didn't specify which cluster} I would guess he would be in the B group with all the other antisocials, narcissists and borderlines. There was some planning involved which would rule out the others but i could be wrong.

[blitzkrieg_17]

According to his brother he also has a personality disorder{he didn't specify which cluster} I would guess he would be in the B group with all the other antisocials, narcissists and borderlines. There was some planning involved which would rule out the others but i could be wrong.

Antisocial, definitely. That makes sense because who else would do something like this? A sociopath, that's who.

[jukin]

Star Member Cetacea (5,676 posts)

View profile
Let the discrimination against the mentally ill begin. A PSA on mental illness and violence
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar,and evil is just evil.


Fact 1: The vast majority of people with mental illness are not violent. (no more so than the general population)


Fact 2: The public is misinformed about the link between mental illness and violence.


Fact 3: Inaccurate beliefs about mental illness and violence lead to widespread stigma and discrimination


Fact 4: The link between mental illness and violence is promoted by the entertainment and news media. (and pundits)


"The effects of stigma and discrimination are profound. The President’s New Freedom Commission on Mental Health found that, “Stigma leads others to avoid living, socializing, or working with, renting to, or employing people with mental disorders - especially severe disorders, such as schizophrenia. It leads to low self-esteem, isolation, and hopelessness. It deters the public from seeking and wanting to pay for care. Responding to stigma, people with mental health problems internalize public attitudes and become so embarrassed or ashamed that they often conceal symptoms and fail to seek treatment (New Freedom Commission, 2003).”

Can you  imagine the Cat 5 shit storm on the DUmp if this person had been in the military?

Yeah.

[Freeper]

Can you  imagine the Cat 5 shit storm on the DUmp if this person had been in the military?

Yeah.

They would be dancing with joy because they could pin it on Bush and his "illegal wars".

[formerlurker]

I suppose that there will soon be threads about how 'aspies' are the nicest people one could ever hope to meet, and are entirely incapable of this sort of violence.

Well, Ill tell you what primitives- 'aspies' are perfectly capable of violence - the disorder presents sociopath-like behavior in some cases. Not to mention, the people with Asperger's are still human, and are capable of independent thoughts & actions. The Shooter was 20 years old-  more than capable of making up his apparently twisted mind to do something barbaric.

At least he had the courtesy to check himself out once his rampage had ended - because his diagnosis would have kept him alive & in an institution at taxpayer's expense for the rest of his days, instead of six feet under where his sorry child-killing ass belongs.

What distinguishes Aspergers from autism is that the aspie kid is the one who presents typically - they are very high functioning.    They still have all of the neurological deficits of autism; see the world as black and white; do not understand emotions, social cues;  abstract concepts such as death are extremely difficult to understand; and can have no real interest in social interactions or contacts (i.e. loners - but they are quite content).  Capable of independent thought?  sure - but those thoughts are completely devoid of abstract thinking.     

School districts push them through and rarely if ever provide the services they need to be functioning adults.   

We have no idea what this person's diagnosis is, if he even had one.     His mother  - a teacher mind you - purchased him guns which she registered in her name.  Nice.

[jtyangel]

Nice little backtrack a few up but anyway...

What happened here creates too much aforethought, conflict, and confrontation for an autistic person. That, imo, would not be of any primary importance and could contribute to peripheral behaviors like being socially awkward or avoiding eye contact.

The primary contributor is probably this personality disorder they have mentioned.

even if he was aspergers he likely had some other very serious mental illness going on. The combination of the two and the inability to cope with even normal stressors led to a 'break'. As I said in another thread, the recent shootings are actually an argument for discussion of bringing back asylums where people who show the precursor signs can be institutionalized BEFORE this happens. The mental health problems and lack of effective intervention seem to all be contributors and I think with some people there is not effective intervention because the problem is that the personality disorder when that severe makes for someone who can not cope with the ordinary stressors that we all face in life. Someone like that, imo, can probably not be treated with therapy and medications. they need the stability and security of a facility that basically shields them from the outside world. Where they can do and see things in a controlled environment. In that situation they are unlikely to have a break and if they do they are not likely to hurt people to the extent they can on the outside.

A good point in this with autistics is that many do go into homes because of the routine and rigidity and constant supervision offered in them. Not because they are violent but because a place like that offers the stability and routine that they need to spare them the confusion of changes they can't process. What I said about a personality disorder ont he other hand applies more because that stability and routine is necessary to protect everyone involved from someone who has a personality disorder that severe not just themselves. The autistic often gets 'housed' to protect them from themselves and their inability to see danger to themselves whether crossing the street or some other routine matter. A severe personality disorder gets house not only for their own protection but society's protection from the consequences of a 'break'. I'm sure the difference between the two is obvious.

[formerlurker]

Oh and as far of the autism spectrum goes - if you meet one child with the diagnosis of autism, then you have met one child.    Every child is different and presents differently.    That is why it is a spectrum.

If he does have aspies, I would doubt this is the reason for these acts.  He most likely had a co-diagnosis, which when coupled with autism makes it near impossible to effectively treat.    The exposure to guns, violent movies and games would be therefore detrimental to someone like this.    I have no facts, but my eyebrow is raised in parents direction.

I will hold judgment however.

[formerlurker]

Nice little backtrack a few up but anyway...

What happened here creates too much aforethought, conflict, and confrontation for an autistic person. That, imo, would not be of any primary importance and could contribute to peripheral behaviors like being socially awkward or avoiding eye contact.

The primary contributor is probably this personality disorder they have mentioned.

even if he was aspergers he likely had some other very serious mental illness going on. The combination of the two and the inability to cope with even normal stressors led to a 'break'. As I said in another thread, the recent shootings are actually an argument for discussion of bringing back asylums where people who show the precursor signs can be institutionalized BEFORE this happens. The mental health problems and lack of effective intervention seem to all be contributors and I think with some people there is not effective intervention because the problem is that the personality disorder when that severe makes for someone who can not cope with the ordinary stressors that we all face in life. Someone like that, imo, can probably not be treated with therapy and medications. they need the stability and security of a facility that basically shields them from the outside world. Where they can do and see things in a controlled environment. In that situation they are unlikely to have a break and if they do they are not likely to hurt people to the extent they can on the outside.

A good point in this with autistics is that many do go into homes because of the routine and rigidity and constant supervision offered in them. Not because they are violent but because a place like that offers the stability and routine that they need to spare them the confusion of changes they can't process. What I said about a personality disorder ont he other hand applies more because that stability and routine is necessary to protect everyone involved from someone who has a personality disorder that severe not just themselves. The autistic often gets 'housed' to protect them from themselves and their inability to see danger to themselves whether crossing the street or some other routine matter. A severe personality disorder gets house not only for their own protection but society's protection from the consequences of a 'break'. I'm sure the difference between the two is obvious.

The present system of interventions lies with the public school districts which fail these children daily.  It's a poor system.  With proper interventions everyone has a chance.     

Front loading intense interventions in the early years yields the best long term outcomes.  <---  the entire foundation of early intervention.    I could write a book.

[jtyangel]

Oh and one more thing...It might be important to note that autistics are NOT considered mentally ill or even mentally retarded, but they can be one or both comorbid with autism. Autism, of which I know more about then aspergers, is a neurological condition. The nerves are underdeveloped in certain areas of the brain or do not work. Those areas are usually related to language and expression and the inability to adjust from a concrete learned scenario. Autistics don't appear to learn how others do. They can memorize but not apply those memorized scenarios to changing situations. I'm not sure the deficiency there. Toast might be able to help. I can't recall offhand. All of this actually makes more potential for them to be victimized by others or put themselves in dangerous scenarios(like crossing a street and not looking) then for them to victimize others. Liek I said, I can't speak to aspergers. I have very little experience with a child more capable then the classically autistic and quite frankly I'm not totally on board with them being on the spectrum with severely autistic people since they are two totally different animals from what I've seen.