Syria loads chemical weapons into bombs; military awaits Assad's order

[Mr Mannn]

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/05/15706380-syria-loads-chemical-weapons-into-bombs-military-awaits-assads-order?lite
Syria loads chemical weapons into bombs; military awaits Assad's order

--snip--
The military has loaded the precursor chemicals for sarin, a deadly nerve gas, into aerial bombs that could be dropped onto the Syrian people from dozens of fighter-bombers, the officials said.

As recently as Tuesday, officials had said there was as yet no evidence that the process of mixing the "precursor" chemicals had begun. But Wednesday, they said their worst fears had been confirmed: The nerve agents were locked and loaded inside the bombs.

--snip--
U.S. officials stressed that as of now, the sarin bombs hadn't been loaded onto planes and that Assad hadn't issued a final order to use them. But if he does, one of the officials said, "there's little the outside world can do to stop it."

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton reiterated U.S. warnings to Assad not to use chemical weapons, saying he would be crossing "a red line" if he did so.

[Mr Mannn]

Hillary gave a warning. Well that should take care of everything.
Why isn't Obama being a leader and giving a stern warning? Or does he know the world sees him as a paper tiger?

[Flame]

Why isn't Obama being a leader and giving a stern warning?

He's too busy planning his 4 million dollar trip to Hawaii to worry about this right now!

[formerlurker]

Ah, good times.   Good times.

The messiah has been reelected.   What is everyone worried about?

[Airwolf]

Only this from either us or someone else.

[Revolution]

The world...the ENTIRE world needs to turn on Syria RIGHT FREAKING NOW! Attack them if Assad pulls a Sandman Saddam. With full force. We all know that the only thing the Middle East should be 8is a giant pile of glass. Doubt Obama has the stones to do it, Look how well he (and FEMA) have done with the victims of Sandy) I hope to God another nation has them. It would solve many, many problems in this world. To unleash one of the nastiest chemical weapons I have ever heard of on one's own people should be a worldly crime, and should be dealt with as severely as possible.

Oh, and here's a little tidbit that SHOULD (but won't) shut DUmmies up forever about the WMD shit:

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/071912-618875-syria-chemical-weapons-came-from-iraq-.htm?p=full

[JohnnyReb]

The world...the ENTIRE world needs to turn on Syria RIGHT FREAKING NOW! Attack them if Assad pulls a Sandman Saddam. With full force. We all know that the only thing the Middle East should be 8is a giant pile of glass. Doubt Obama has the stones to do it, Look how well he (and FEMA) have done with the victims of Sandy) I hope to God another nation has them. It would solve many, many problems in this world. To unleash one of the nastiest chemical weapons I have ever heard of on one's own people should be a worldly crime, and should be dealt with as severely as possible.

Oh, and here's a little tidbit that SHOULD (but won't) shut DUmmies up forever about the WMD shit:

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/071912-618875-syria-chemical-weapons-came-from-iraq-.htm?p=full

...but...but...but Bush lied about those to get us into a war.....[DUmmie/mode]

[NHSparky]

...but...but...but Bush lied about those to get us into a war.....[DUmmie/mode]

C'mon--Saddam was using them on the Kurds and the Iranians in the 1980's, but funny how the MSM kinda swept that under the rug.

[CG6468]

C'mon--Saddam was using them on the Kurds and the Iranians in the 1980's, but funny how the MSM kinda swept that under the rug.

It's now the time.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Sarin is 1940s technology, any country bigger than Liechtenstein that wants to put the effort into it can cook up a batch.  I'm not sure that piles of dead Islamists and piles of dead Ba'athists is such a bad thing.  A lot of more-or-less innocent people will be killed, but a lot of more-or-less innocent people, and probably more of them if not necessarily the same ones, will also be killed if we go in and try to take the shit away from them. 

[JohnnyReb]

Sarin is 1940s technology, any country bigger than Liechtenstein that wants to put the effort into it can cook up a batch.  I'm not sure that piles of dead Islamists and piles of dead Ba'athists is such a bad thing.  A lot of more-or-less innocent people will be killed, but a lot of more-or-less innocent people, and probably more of them if not necessarily the same ones, will also be killed if we go in and try to take the shit away from them. 

Obama will probably forward them a few hundred million to build some "ovens" now.

[CG6468]

Sarin is 1940s technology, any country bigger than Liechtenstein that wants to put the effort into it can cook up a batch.  I'm not sure that piles of dead Islamists and piles of dead Ba'athists is such a bad thing.  A lot of more-or-less innocent people will be killed, but a lot of more-or-less innocent people, and probably more of them if not necessarily the same ones, will also be killed if we go in and try to take the shit away from them.

I was talking about making a glass desert, even without nukes. Cremation is included.

[DefiantSix]

Sarin is 1940s technology, any country bigger than Liechtenstein that wants to put the effort into it can cook up a batch.  I'm not sure that piles of dead Islamists and piles of dead Ba'athists is such a bad thing.  A lot of more-or-less innocent people will be killed, but a lot of more-or-less innocent people, and probably more of them if not necessarily the same ones, will also be killed if we go in and try to take the shit away from them. 

The problem though, is that we - or more specifically ISRAEL - have no way of knowing until it's too damned late whether the Syrian government (which has been propped up and dancing to the tune of Iran via Hamas for decades now) plans on using it on their own citizens subjects, or lobbing 'em across the border at Israelis.

[NHSparky]

The problem though, is that we - or more specifically ISRAEL - have no way of knowing until it's too damned late whether the Syrian government (which has been propped up and dancing to the tune of Iran via Hamas for decades now) plans on using it on their own citizens subjects, or lobbing 'em across the border at Israelis.

At least the Israelis have gas masks, for what good it'll do them.  The Syrians might as well saunter up to those warheads and take a big ol drag off 'em.

[Duke Nukum]

The world...the ENTIRE world needs to turn on Syria RIGHT FREAKING NOW! Attack them if Assad pulls a Sandman Saddam. With full force. We all know that the only thing the Middle East should be 8is a giant pile of glass. Doubt Obama has the stones to do it, Look how well he (and FEMA) have done with the victims of Sandy) I hope to God another nation has them. It would solve many, many problems in this world. To unleash one of the nastiest chemical weapons I have ever heard of on one's own people should be a worldly crime, and should be dealt with as severely as possible.

Oh, and here's a little tidbit that SHOULD (but won't) shut DUmmies up forever about the WMD shit:

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/071912-618875-syria-chemical-weapons-came-from-iraq-.htm?p=full

I was wondering if these were Saddam's stockpile.

[thundley4]

The problem though, is that we - or more specifically ISRAEL - have no way of knowing until it's too damned late whether the Syrian government (which has been propped up and dancing to the tune of Iran via Hamas for decades now) plans on using it on their own citizens subjects, or lobbing 'em across the border at Israelis.

If that happens, I wouldn't blame Israel for letting loose the nukes.

[dutch508]

The problem though, is that we - or more specifically ISRAEL - have no way of knowing until it's too damned late whether the Syrian government (which has been propped up and dancing to the tune of Iran via Hamas for decades now) plans on using it on their own citizens subjects, or lobbing 'em across the border at Israelis.

or both.

[NHSparky]

or both.

Another possibility as well--if Assad is on his way out in a very bloody manner ala Gadaffi, why not let the world burn on your way out?

It's the same old story--I don't fear the guy with 1000 nukes who knows he has as much to lose as me.  I fear the guy with one who feels like he has nothing left to lose.

Oh, and bitchslapped for not showing your ugly mug around here more often.  I don't wanna hear your excuses.  Not gonna fly.

[CG6468]

How can Syria really contain the area where they'd use this stuff? They're far from 20th century knowledge, much less 21st century knowledge.

[DumbAss Tanker]

How can Syria really contain the area where they'd use this stuff? They're far from 20th century knowledge, much less 21st century knowledge.

It's not like radiation, it's 'persistent' in chemical weapons terms but Sarin is delivered in an aerosol form because it is essentially a slightly viscous heavy liquid, 'Aerosol' means droplets and it falls out of atmospheric suspension and deposits on surfaces within a couple of hours after the bursting charge creates the aerosol cloud (Depending on winds and the amount used).  The droplets that are deposited remain lethal for a pretty good while, up to weeks, but UV light and weather break it down and disperse it like other complex organic toxic chemicals.  Fictional descriptions tend to grossly exaggerate its effectiveness because 'nerve gas' makes a really great Deus ex machina to wind up all the loose ends in a story.

As far as Israel goes, those points as a reason to attack now are illogical because Assad could have mixed it and dropped it on them any time in the past ten years or any time in the future, whether he does or doesn't dump any of it on the rebels (Who are as big a bunch of scumbags as the Ba'athists are) now.  They're independent decisions, not that he might not want to attack Israel.  Also, I don't see 'Attacking anyone who might attack Israel' as a sane foreign policy strategy for us.

Large-scale intervention in Syria would turn into a cluster**** that would make OIF/OEF (<- which is STILL an on-going cluster**** itself) look like Napoleon at Austerlitz by comparison.

[CG6468]

It's not like radiation, it's 'persistent' in chemical weapons terms but Sarin is delivered in an aerosol form because it is essentially a slightly viscous heavy liquid, 'Aerosol' means droplets and it falls out of atmospheric suspension and deposits on surfaces within a couple of hours after the bursting charge creates the aerosol cloud (Depending on winds and the amount used).  The droplets that are deposited remain lethal for a pretty good while, up to weeks, but UV light and weather break it down and disperse it like other complex organic toxic chemicals.  Fictional descriptions tend to grossly exaggerate its effectiveness because 'nerve gas' makes a really great Deus ex machina to wind up all the loose ends in a story.

As far as Israel goes, those points as a reason to attack now are illogical because Assad could have mixed it and dropped it on them any time in the past ten years or any time in the future, whether he does or doesn't dump any of it on the rebels (Who are as big a bunch of scumbags as the Ba'athists are) now.  They're independent decisions, not that he might not want to attack Israel.  Also, I don't see 'Attacking anyone who might attack Israel' as a sane foreign policy strategy for us.

Large-scale intervention in Syria would turn into a cluster**** that would make OIF/OEF (<- which is STILL an on-going cluster**** itself) look like Napoleon at Austerlitz by comparison.

I know it's not like radiation.

Using several or many of these would be uncontrollable, for the reasons you outlined, i.e. winds, temperatures, etc.

[DumbAss Tanker]

I know it's not like radiation.

Using several or many of these would be uncontrollable, for the reasons you outlined, i.e. winds, temperatures, etc.

It's not uncontrollable at all, we no longer have to slaughter a sheep and look at its guts to figure out what the winds tomorrow will be (Not that they were unpredictable in that part of the world even when people did read entrails).  The cloud has a very limited life and the downwind pattern and casualty-producing zones are HIGHLY predictable.  It's 'Uncontrollable' only in the sense that once you drop the weapons, there's no way to call the cloud back, which is true for any other kind of ordnance as well though the effects are a lot more immediate for high explosives.  Worst case is that your chief meteorologist is an enemy agent and told you exactly the wrong stuff on the wind, even then it just means the cloud goes three miles in the wrong direction before it dissipates to ineffectiveness.

[CG6468]

It's not uncontrollable at all, we no longer have to slaughter a sheep and look at its guts to figure out what the winds tomorrow will be (Not that they were unpredictable in that part of the world even when people did read entrails).  The cloud has a very limited life and the downwind pattern and casualty-producing zones are HIGHLY predictable.  It's 'Uncontrollable' only in the sense that once you drop the weapons, there's no way to call the cloud back, which is true for any other kind of ordnance as well though the effects are a lot more immediate for high explosives.  Worst case is that your chief meteorologist is an enemy agent and told you exactly the wrong stuff on the wind, even then it just means the cloud goes three miles in the wrong direction before it dissipates to ineffectiveness.

And they've loaded this into many warheads. Have they toyed with and improved the life of their poisons? Maybe yes, maybe no.

"Highly predictable" is like the blizzard in Illinois when partly cloudy skies are forecast.

[thundley4]

On second thought, do I really care if Assad uses this to kill other muslims?  

[CG6468]

On second thought, do I really care if Assad uses this to kill other muslims?  

I agree, but what will blammo do? Send in US forces?