When talking to members of the military and retired veterans

[Freeper]

SHRED (9,593 posts)

When talking to members of the military and retired veterans


 

I am talking about the right-wing ones which include family members.

Inevitably when the conversation comes to "Obamacare" or "free stuff and things" I call them out on the benefits they get which are 100% paid for by the US Government.
Where I get stumped is when they counter with the "I earned it because I was willing to lay my life on the line" speech.

I respect the fact that they were willing to do that but I cannot stand it when thy use it as cover while bashing the very "government" (as it applies to others) they rely so heavily on.

How do you handle this?
How would you reply?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021915021

Well how about this dumbass?
If you don't work for Walmart do you get a paycheck every two weeks from them? You don't, why is that?
You didn't provide them any labor in exchange for a paycheck.

Now let's replace Walmart with the government, did you provide the government any labor? You didn't, then sit down, shut up and quit demanding freebies.

hobbit709 (23,981 posts)
1. "And I earned my SS by working all my life for it"

The problem with the RWers is that their attitude is "I got mine Jack, screw you"

Actually it is the republicans who are trying to save Social Security, this notion that they are trying to take it away is nothing but left wing lies. If we keep going down the path we are now SS will be broke and millions of folks who paid in to it will not see a dime. But hey you get yours so screw everyone else, right?

Jackpine Radical (35,047 posts)
2. I dunno, but I have a RW cousin who was career Air Force

with VA health insurance & a pension and comes out with that crap all the time. Kinda pisses me off because he was never in combat or even close to it.

The contrast between us is interesting in that I'm a Vietnam combat vet with 3 bullet holes who came back radicalized, joined the antiwar movement, campaigned hard for McGovern & have been moving progressively leftward ever since.

Has anyone seen this DUmmy tell his Rambo story? I don't recall seeing him speak of the 3 bullet holes before.

Bigmack (6,236 posts)
12. Why is it that the office pogues and supply weinies...

.. always pull that "life on the line" bullshit?

The guys on the barstools at the VFW and such will be glad to tell you about their hardships, like the time they got that nasty paper cut, and the time the freezer broke and they lost all the ice cream.

I just tell people who pull that shit that I got enough time in the shit that I can tell them they're suckers for not seeing they were used by the people they are defending.

Another Rambo.

SHRED (9,593 posts)
6. I just don't get it


I told my son-in-law (18 years Navy) that I do not begrudge his healthcare and that I only wish I had access to such coverage after a lifetime of working (before 65).

That stumped him a bit.

You could have spent that time preparing for when you retire. Looks like you didn't and now you demand that the taxpayer pay for your sorry ass.

OldDem2012 (1,642 posts)
10. Yes, they earned their Government benefits, but....

...it was their choice to join the military in the first place. Nobody forced them to join, and for those still in the military, nobody is forcing them to stay. The vast majority of folks who stay in the military until retirement do so because they know there is no equivalent job on the outside that will provide the level of benefits they receive in the military. Ask the folks still in the military why they haven't gotten out. Listen carefully to the answers they give you. Ask them who they believe pays for those benefits.

Ask the folks who retired from the military why they stayed in the military...wasn't it for the retirement pay and medical benefits they received when they got out, and still receive? What they get in retirement is no different philosophically than what civilians receive when they retire and start collecting Social Security and Medicare.

The tax dollars WE ALL PAY INTO THE SYSTEM pays for "Obamacare" and the other "free stuff" the US Government provides as benefits. Therefore, none of what the Government provides is free. We all pay some sort of price for the benefits we receive.

Lots of folks who currently receive one or more Government benefits like food stamps, unemployment, etc., are ALSO veterans who didn't stay in the military until retirement. In addition to paying for them with their tax dollars, don't those veterans also earn those benefits by virtue of having served their country at some point in their lives?

Unfortunately, logic fails when dealing with some people. Good luck.

Logic fails big time with you goons. You had the same opportunity they did, and yet you choose not to, then you bitch that you don't get what they got for the choice they made.

nadinbrzezinski (112,607 posts)
14. First they did not earn them.

Last edited Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:31 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

VA is a product of WWIi. Some facts usually piss them off.

And it was passed by democrats with clear opposition of the GOP. I add, they think people on government programrs are mooches, so they are.

Yup, they get pissed...but that is the reality.

 

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Warriors earn.

Liberals steal.

[formerlurker]

nadinbrzezinski (112,607 posts)
14. First they did not earn them.

Last edited Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:31 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

VA is a product of WWIi. Some facts usually piss them off.

And it was passed by democrats with clear opposition of the GOP. I add, they think people on government programrs are mooches, so they are.

Yup, they get pissed...but that is the reality.

Excuse Ms. trained historian,   the military pension is as old as our country.   Mmmkay?   

Junior enlists with a promise of guaranteed health care and a monthly pension for the rest of his life if completes 20 years.    The government is his employer.   Military pension is his retirement.    See how that works? 

[franksolich]

Excuse Ms. trained historian,   the military pension is as old as our country.   Mmmkay?   

Junior enlists with a promise of guaranteed health care and a monthly pension for the rest of his life if completes 20 years.    The government is his employer.   Military pension is his retirement.    See how that works? 

As late as the first administration of Franklin Roosevelt (1933-1937), veterans' pensions were the largest item in the federal budget.

That isn't to say veterans' pensions were pretty generous--they weren't--but to demonstrate how small the federal budget once was.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Excuse Ms. trained historian,   the military pension is as old as our country.   Mmmkay?   

Junior enlists with a promise of guaranteed health care and a monthly pension for the rest of his life if completes 20 years.    The government is his employer.   Military pension is his retirement.    See how that works? 

3 hots and a cot = food  stamps  and public housing </du>

[formerlurker]

Let me also state that my husband did not stay in the military because of the awesome pay and benefits ( ).     He loved his job and his sense of duty to our country is something you will NEVER understand. 

[Delmar]

Response to SHRED (Original post)Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:07 AM
 obxhead (6,948 posts)
11. They served for our rights

not their rights.

I've paid taxes all my life for the benefits we all receive. We've ALL done something to earn our entitlements. That's why their called entitlements, we're entitled to them.

Maybe you harassed a whaling ship out on the high seas.  Maybe you stood watch at an OWS encampment.  Maybe you spoke truth to power at democrat underground.  We've all served.  Got that, wing nuts?

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

obxhead (6,948 posts)
11. They served for our rights

not their rights.

What rights do you imagine you have?

Do you think just because your mother neglected to abort you that we somehow owe you something?

[AprilRazz]

They seem to have a hard time grasping what is contractually promised and an entitlement. I was promised my GI bill in my contract to serve in the military. I held up my end of the contract and the federal government (sometimes) holds up their end.

The primitives do nothing and have their hands out for entitlements.

[Zeus]

The Plymouth colony first cared for veterans beginning in 1636. The Plymouth Colony was, along with Jamestown, Virginia, one of the earliest successful colonies to be founded by the English in North America and the first sizable permanent English settlement in the New England region. Aided by Squanto, an American Indian of the Patuxet people, the colony was able to establish a treaty with Chief Massasoit which helped to ensure the colony's success. It played a central role in King Philip's War, one of the earliest of the Indian Wars. Ultimately, the colony was merged with the Massachusetts Bay Colony and other territories in 1691 to form the Province of Massachusetts Bay.

The Continental Congress of 1776 encouraged enlistments during the American Revolutionary War by providing pensions for soldiers who were disabled. Direct medical and hospital care given to veterans in the early days of the republic was provided by the individual states and communities. In 1811, the first domiciliary and medical facility for veterans was authorized by the federal government, but not opened until 1834. In the 19th century, the nation's veterans assistance program was expanded to include benefits and pensions not only for veterans, but also their widows and dependents.

VA Medical Center in Manhattan, New York City
After the Civil War, many state veterans homes were established. Since domiciliary care was available at all state veterans homes, incidental medical and hospital treatment was provided for all injuries and diseases, whether or not of service origin. Indigent and disabled veterans of the Civil War, Indian Wars, Spanish-American War, and Mexican Border period as well as discharged regular members of the Armed Forces were cared for at these homes.

Congress established a new system of veterans benefits when the United States entered World War I in 1917. Included were programs for disability compensation, insurance for servicepersons and veterans, and vocational rehabilitation for the disabled. By the 1920s, the various benefits were administered by three different federal agencies: the Veterans Bureau, the Bureau of Pensions of the Interior Department, and the National Home for Disabled Volunteer Soldiers.

The establishment of the Veterans Administration came in 1930 when Congress authorized the president to "consolidate and coordinate Government activities affecting war veterans." The three component agencies became bureaus within the Veterans Administration. Brigadier General Frank T. Hines, who directed the Veterans Bureau for seven years, was named as the first Administrator of Veterans Affairs, a job he held until 1945.

The VA health care system has grown from 54 hospitals in 1930 to include 171 medical centers; more than 350 outpatient, community, and outreach clinics; 126 nursing home care units; and 35 domiciliaries. VA health care facilities provide a broad spectrum of medical, surgical, and rehabilitative care. The responsibilities and benefits programs of the Veterans Administration grew enormously during the following six decades. World War II resulted in not only a vast increase in the veteran population, but also in large number of new benefits enacted by Congress for veterans of the war.
The World War II GI Bill, signed into law on June 22, 1944, is said to have had more impact on the American way of life than any law since the Homestead Act nearly a century before.

Further educational assistance acts were passed for the benefit of veterans of the Korean War, the Vietnam Era, the introduction of an "all-volunteer force" in the 1970s (following the end of conscription in the United States in 1973), the Persian Gulf War, and those who served following the attacks of September 11, 2001.

The Department of Veterans Affairs Act of 1988 (Pub.L. 100-527) changed the former Veterans Administration, an independent government agency established in 1930, primarily at that time to see to needs of World War I, into a Cabinet-level Department of Veterans Affairs. It was signed into law by President Ronald Reagan on October 25, 1988, but actually came into effect under the term of his successor, George H. W. Bush, on March 15, 1989.

The Department of Veterans Affairs was created in direct response to the Supreme Court of the United States case of Rose v. Rose. The failure to perform apportionments by the previous Veterans Administration was identified under Title 38 of the United States Code. The Supreme Court ruled the existing language of 38 USC § 211 did not provide sole authority, did not include state courts and only included eligibility questions. As a huge point the Court said the language didn’t even obligate the VA to do its job.

[I_B_Perky]

SHRED (9,593 posts)

When talking to members of the military and retired veterans


 

I am talking about the right-wing ones which include family members.

Inevitably when the conversation comes to "Obamacare" or "free stuff and things" I call them out on the benefits they get which are 100% paid for by the US Government.

Where I get stumped is when they counter with the "I earned it because I was willing to lay my life on the line" speech. and they did dummie. Maybe they weren't in any warzone but at anytime the military could have ordered them there. They would have gone too. What have you done dummie? Sit around on your ass and whine the food stamps ain't enough to buy your lattes?

I respect the fact that they were willing to do that but I cannot stand it when thy use it as cover while bashing the very "government" (as it applies to others) they rely so heavily on. Well dummie... they provide a service. They DEFEND this country. What have you done to deserve your government check? I'll tell you... nothing. Absolutely freaking nothing!! Now do you get where they are coming from?

How do you handle this? You thank them for their service and then you shut your moocher pie hole.
How would you reply?

[dandi]

Here the DUmmy presents the same, tired strawman argument they are so famous for. Conservatives do not hate the government per se. We recognize the need for government to maintain a safe and orderly society. What we hate are the individuals within the govermnent who have perverted it beyond all recognition. That includes not only growing it to a size and authority incompatible with freedom, but perpetuating that growth through buying vast blocs of votes with the public treasure, i.e. wealth redistribution.

[Airwolf]

I served in both the Active Duty Army and the National Guard for a combined total of just over 23 years. Yes I didn't see combat but I was in a war zone called Korea since they have never signed a peace treaty and I was put on alert for Grenada but only got as far as making it to the trucks to head to the airfield before they pulled the plug and told us to stand down. Then there was 9/11 where I had to be activated for 6 months and pull duty. The big difference between me and those loser over at DU if they ever served was that the didn't stay in and work for at least 20 before they could be their benefits in any job it seems. All the want is a hand out.

Sorry but none of us that have served did so to allow you leeches to take  what you didn't earn . You want something, earn it or piss off . And for a so called trained historian Gnads the bald headed dwarf gets more facts wrong then a 7 year old trying to pass the ACTs. For someone that claims to be so much smarter then us on the right, DU is as wrong as any group can get and history shows us what happens when we follow their path to ruin. 

[DumbAss Tanker]

The shitheads are adding whole new chapters to their great big journal of Just Not Getting It.

[98ZJUSMC]

SHRED (9,593 posts)

When talking to members of the military and retired veterans


 

I am talking about the right-wing ones which include family members.

Inevitably when the conversation comes to "Obamacare" or "free stuff and things" I call them out on the benefits they get which are 100% paid for by the US Government.
Where I get stumped is when they counter with the "I earned it because I was willing to lay my life on the line" speech.

I respect the fact that they were willing to do that but I cannot stand it when thy use it as cover while bashing the very "government" (as it applies to others) they rely so heavily on.

How do you handle this?
How would you reply?

I reply that you are an incredible doucherocket.  

Rely on the Government?

Ignorant slut.

I served in both the Active Duty Army and the National Guard for a combined total of just over 23 years. Yes I didn't see combat but I was in a war zone called Korea since they have never signed a peace treaty and I was put on alert for Grenada but only got as far as making it to the trucks to head to the airfield before they pulled the plug and told us to stand down. Then there was 9/11 where I had to be activated for 6 months and pull duty. The big difference between me and those loser over at DU if they ever served was that the didn't stay in and work for at least 20 before they could be their benefits in any job it seems. All the want is a hand out.

Sorry but none of us that have served did so to allow you leeches to take  what you didn't earn . You want something, earn it or piss off . And for a so called trained historian Gnads the bald headed dwarf gets more facts wrong then a 7 year old trying to pass the ACTs. For someone that claims to be so much smarter then us on the right, DU is as wrong as any group can get and history shows us what happens when we follow their path to ruin. 

Evidently, somewhere along the line, these retards got it in their heads that everyone in the Military is somehow entitled to these "golden" bennies.

Wrong asshat.

[txradioguy]

Warriors earn.

Liberals steal.

Yup...and considering the shitty places they send us as the trade off for all of these alleged free bennies...(note to DUmmies...NOTHING is free!)..I'd say we earn everything we get and then some.


There's one one idiot on the Island that would do what we do to get what we have.

Not one.

[Undies]

Any form of compensation our military personnel receive is part of the contract they have with us (the government).  No part of it is a "benefit".  The arrangement does not compare, nor can it be compared, in any scenario, to what occurs in the private sector workplace.  To try to relate the two is idiotic, ridiculous, purposefully ignorant, and political dishonesty.

[BlueStateSaint]

Any form of compensation our military personnel receive is part of the contract they have with us (the government).  No part of it is a "benefit".  The arrangement does not compare, nor can it be compared, in any scenario, to what occurs in the private sector workplace.  To try to relate the two is idiotic, ridiculous, purposefully ignorant, and political dishonesty.

The bolded are the stock in trade for the DUmp.

[Airwolf]

Another thing is this. I have never seen any civilian on the left or right stand guard duty at the office on a holiday while his fellow workers go home and have a nice meal and good times at home. I have also never seen any of them break down and do maintenance on their office equipment because the monthly inspections and checks needed to be done on the Office PC and the monitor and the printers and the lights and the files needed to be gone over for accuracy. I have also never seen them get deployed to some shithole of a training area where they had to spend 2-4 weeks in a hole in the ground eating cold food or MREs till the FTX is over. I also know damn well the the average worker in the civilian workplace doesn't get up each morning and spends an hour doing PT at anywhere near the pace and workout the military does. They have the luxury of staying in when it rains, When it rained , my Co had us change into PT gear no matter the time of day and made us play soccer. I bet their bosses never made them so much as stand in the rain without an umbrella when they take their smoke breaks. 

How many of them have also spent 6-9 months away from their families with little or no communications while at sea? How many of them hated their job so much they wanted to leave but couldn't;t because they still had 2 or 3 years on a contract that said they were stuck there in Alaska? How many of them go o work wondering if they will make it because some crazy **** devoted to some extreme form of Islam planted an IED on the 405? Yeah their workload is so much harder then the average joe's.