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Author Topic: Just give me a big paycheck dammit!  (Read 3373 times)

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Online Carl

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Just give me a big paycheck dammit!
« on: November 30, 2012, 10:27:44 AM »
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021905275


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Humanist_Activist (1,465 posts)

If a person is working 40 hours a week, they should be paid enough to live off of.
I don't care if they work as a shit shoveler, a burger flipper, or as computer programmers or whatever it is, no full time employee should be denied a living wage.

And don't give me this shit about "free markets" or different skill sets/advance skill sets, you have college graduates working in IT for 8 bucks an hour, at companies where advancement is damn near unheard of, in the same boat, financially, as a 17 year old flipping burgers at McDonald's.

What we have is across the board wage depression, but without the corresponding decrease in cost of living. You have people who range in age from 20-40 who had to move back in with their parents, several times, just to avoid homelessness. How many others have their parents carry them in other ways, for example, paying their car insurance for them? Or their medical insurance? There's a reason why the 26 year old provision in Obamacare is becoming very popular among the populace, and that's just a sad state of affairs.

The minimum wage is useful in that its a good selling point for companies to say they are "better" than the government by paying people 8 bucks an hour versus $7.25, but its not like anyone, even in the most rural, economically depressed, areas of the country can live off either wage.

This is why unions are important, and why we need a living wage provision as well. Everyone who is employed full time should earn enough money to be able to afford a place to live, food on the table, transportation to work, and yes, even entertainment and extras, at least enough to be able to treat themselves to going to the movies more than once a year.

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quakerboy (10,150 posts)
1. Wrong

I would put it at about 30 hours. Working more than that should give you a comfortable margin past enough to live on.

We have machines. We don't have enough work that needs done by people to employ everyone 40 hours a week. We need to start reducing the work week and increasing the pay to reflect our increased productivity and population growth.

Other than that, I agree. 

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Live and Learn (1,118 posts)
3. Exactly, we need to reduce hours to create more jobs.

Last edited Fri Nov 30, 2012, 05:37 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

And all of them should pay a livable wage of course.

We also need to rid ourselves of this notion that some jobs are more worthy than others. I had to laugh today when I heard a local radio talk show host making fun of clerks that were striking on the docks because he thought they were greatly overpaid when all they did was paperwork and computer stuff that anyone could do.

Ha, anyone can do paperwork and computer "stuff" but it takes a genius to spew bs on a right wing radio show for a few hours a day.

This is the same mentality that thinks field workers making minimum wage are lazy while CEOs put in lots of sweat to earn those billions. Seriously, does it look like Mittwit ever sweated a day in his life (except maybe the last few minutes of November 6, 2012)?

 

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Blue_Tires (30,024 posts)
12. +1000

I've discovered awhile back that the optimal life balance is 4 days work, 3 off...

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lightcameron (117 posts)
8. How would you calculate "living wage"?

The definition would be important.

Seems like it would have to be done not nationally, not regionally, not even by state, but by zip code (or maybe even a smaller area than that). And you'd also have to address the issue of someone living in an area where the cost of living is different than that in the area where the business is located, which means companies would find a way to hire people who live in areas where the cost of living is lower, as decided by whomever the legislation empowers to determine the COL in every neighborhood in the country.

Then there's the self-employed. I am one of those, thanks to setting out a couple of years ago with the goal of never EVER working for anyone else for the rest of my life. I'm what some here might consider "rich," but how would the legislation you have in mind deal with the self-employed who are just barely scraping by? One way, I guess, would be to reduce the self-employment penalty tax, which is absolute bullshit, penalizing independent-minded entrepreneurs. But other than that, how would you address this aspect of it?

Interesting topic, by the way.

Enjoy your stay,reality is not welcome where you stand.

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whathehell (10,376 posts)
9. It sounds like you are challenging the very concept, imagining it as "overwhelming"

I don't have a blueprint myself, but I sense you're exaggerating the difficulty.

I don't know what you make, but I do know that what is considered "rich" in this country varies a lot.

I was surprised to learn that many consider it to be making $100,000 a year.

Multi-millionaire John McCain, on the other hand, claims you need at least 3 million dollars.


 

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TheKentuckian (16,205 posts)
11. I don't get this by zip code or smaller shit, I live in the same economy as someone across town

What are you expecting, that we make cost of living zones to reflect costs in gated communities and fancy subdivisions. Account for the keeping up with the Jones' factor of BMW's and private schools that cost more than most colleges?

See.

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OnionPatch (5,299 posts)
10. We will always have poverty

until the public mindset changes to where the majority of us believe anyone who works for eight hours a day deserves a living, no matter what they're doing. I had hoped we were getting closer to that but was surprised to find people right here, progressives, who believe there are certain occupations where the people who fill them don't deserve a living.  Apparently, we still have a long way to go.

Useless parasites.
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Offline franksolich

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Re: Just give me a big paycheck dammit!
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2012, 10:31:14 AM »
What is a "living wage"?

When I was wandering around the socialist paradises of the workers and peasants, at the time the "average" wage was $11 a month.

Believe it or not, people lived on it, had for years, and still are.
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Offline RobJohnson

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Re: Just give me a big paycheck dammit!
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2012, 10:41:42 AM »
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Humanist_Activist (1,465 posts)

If a person is working 40 hours a week, they should be paid enough to live off of.


Did the DUmmies forget that the new Affordable Care Act defines full time as 30 hours?

What is this 40 hour week they speak of?   :lmao:
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Offline USA4ME

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Re: Just give me a big paycheck dammit!
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2012, 10:45:30 AM »
Yeah, the Soviet Union was just swell.

.
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: Just give me a big paycheck dammit!
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2012, 10:50:59 AM »
Huh...most people I know make X, and live within those means.

Basically what they're trying to say is, I want free shit and I don't want to have to work very hard (if at all) for it.
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Offline Karin

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Re: Just give me a big paycheck dammit!
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2012, 11:02:22 AM »
Why can't these idiots understand basic business math?  You want the C-store clerk to make $60,000 per year?  Your Cheetos now cost $20 per bag.  Is that basic enough for you, DUmb****s? 
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Offline Wineslob

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Re: Just give me a big paycheck dammit!
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2012, 11:20:49 AM »
Quote from: Karin on November 30, 2012, 11:02:22 AM
Why can't these idiots understand basic business math?  You want the C-store clerk to make $60,000 per year?  Your Cheetos now cost $20 per bag.  Is that basic enough for you, DUmb****s? 


DUmmie response:


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Offline Rebel

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Just give me a big paycheck dammit!
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2012, 11:46:51 AM »
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umanist_Activist (1,465 posts)
you have college graduates working in IT for 8 bucks an hour, at companies where advancement is damn near unheard of,

Yeah, they're called Best Buy sales associates in the computer department with degrees in Sociology or that uber important "Art History Degree". Show me one person that has a degree in the catchall Computer Science, or any of the specialty degrees like I have in I.T. management or software engineering that aren't there transitionally.
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Offline seahorse513

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Re: Just give me a big paycheck dammit!
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2012, 11:59:04 AM »
Hey dumbasses, you want a bigger paycheck?? WORK FOR IT! OR DO SOMETHING, LIKE HIGHER EDUCATION TO IMPROVE YOUR STATUS!! end loud rant!! :banghead: :rant:
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Offline Splashdown

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Re: Just give me a big paycheck dammit!
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2012, 12:38:36 PM »
Quote from: seahorse513 on November 30, 2012, 11:59:04 AM
Hey dumbasses, you want a bigger paycheck?? WORK FOR IT! OR DO SOMETHING, LIKE HIGHER EDUCATION TO IMPROVE YOUR STATUS!! end loud rant!! :banghead: :rant:

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When, exactly did the world begin owing us something?

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« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 12:41:39 PM by Splashdown »
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Offline vesta111

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Re: Just give me a big paycheck dammit!
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2012, 12:39:44 PM »
Quote from: Rebel on November 30, 2012, 11:46:51 AM
Yeah, they're called Best Buy sales associates in the computer department with degrees in Sociology or that uber important "Art History Degree". Show me one person that has a degree in the catchall Computer Science, or any of the specialty degrees like I have in I.T. management or software engineering that aren't there transitionally.

A living wage is just that, one that allows one to survive with a roof over their head and food on the table.  One does not NEED a 50 inch TV, a 20 foot bass boat,  an above ground swimming pool or a $1000. designer dog.

A living wage does not mean one needs to buy $300 sneakers for a kid that will outgrow them in 3 months. Spend $500 on video games for the kids.  

Living wage is just that, BASICs necessity's for a life. One wants more, then that is for them to figure out how to get the money to do so. Once the basic living money is provided then all else is up to them.

Starts young, a kid that delivers papers or babysits, works after school for what they want that parents cannot provide them with.

 Goes on to parents do not owe their kids an education beyond High school, kids want to go to college, why spend $80,000. to get a child  a degree in recreation or square dancing and basket weaving ?

Children that show promiss in the sciences ,law and medicine will get grants on their own.  I will be darn if I want to spend big bucks so a kid can get a degree in Lawn Cricket.

Living wage is food, shelter, clothing, and all else is up to the person that wants more.

  

          
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Offline BEG

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Re: Just give me a big paycheck dammit!
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2012, 12:58:50 PM »
They really are children.
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Offline 98ZJUSMC

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Re: Just give me a big paycheck dammit!
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2012, 01:16:29 PM »
Quote
Humanist_Activist (1,465 posts)

If a person is working 40 hours a week, they should be paid enough to live off of.
I don't care if they work as a shit shoveler, a burger flipper, or as computer programmers or whatever it is, no full time employee should be denied a living wage.

And don't give me this shit about "free markets" or different skill sets/advance skill sets, you have college graduates working in IT for 8 bucks an hour, at companies where advancement is damn near unheard of, in the same boat, financially, as a 17 year old flipping burgers at McDonald's.

What we have is across the board wage depression, but without the corresponding decrease in cost of living. You have people who range in age from 20-40 who had to move back in with their parents, several times, just to avoid homelessness. How many others have their parents carry them in other ways, for example, paying their car insurance for them? Or their medical insurance? There's a reason why the 26 year old provision in Obamacare is becoming very popular among the populace, and that's just a sad state of affairs.

The minimum wage is useful in that its a good selling point for companies to say they are "better" than the government by paying people 8 bucks an hour versus $7.25, but its not like anyone, even in the most rural, economically depressed, areas of the country can live off either wage.

This is why unions are important, and why we need a living wage provision as well. Everyone who is employed full time should earn enough money to be able to afford a place to live, food on the table, transportation to work, and yes, even entertainment and extras, at least enough to be able to treat themselves to going to the movies more than once a year.

Typical.  The smartestest, bestest people in the Universe think that the only thing that drives prices is wage scale.

 :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Complete.  Idiots.

Quote from: BEG on November 30, 2012, 12:58:50 PM
They really are children.

Exactly...and quite stupid ones, at that.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 01:20:32 PM by 98ZJUSMC »
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Just give me a big paycheck dammit!
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2012, 01:20:21 PM »
You don't deserve it and the mere accident of your birth does not obligate me to provide it.
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Online 67 Rover

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Re: Just give me a big paycheck dammit!
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2012, 02:50:45 PM »
Quote from: BEG on November 30, 2012, 12:58:50 PM
They really are children.

With our national credit card in hand.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Just give me a big paycheck dammit!
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2012, 03:00:16 PM »
Quote from: franksolich on November 30, 2012, 10:31:14 AM
What is a "living wage"?

When I was wandering around the socialist paradises of the workers and peasants, at the time the "average" wage was $11 a month.

Believe it or not, people lived on it, had for years, and still are.

Their 'Legal' income, of course...in reality they all stole like pirates, especially from the State, and had a thriving illegal and barter trade in any skill they could exercise or product they could produce in their off-hours, which is what made the USSR the fertile breeding ground of organized crime that it was.
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Offline franksolich

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Re: Just give me a big paycheck dammit!
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2012, 05:59:01 PM »
Quote from: DumbAss Tanker on November 30, 2012, 03:00:16 PM
Their 'Legal' income, of course...in reality they all stole like pirates, especially from the State, and had a thriving illegal and barter trade in any skill they could exercise or product they could produce in their off-hours, which is what made the USSR the fertile breeding ground of organized crime that it was.

Uh huh, that's true.

And because of the hidden nature of the income, it was difficult to discern what they really lived on.

But I'll bet they lived on a Hell of a lot less than what the primitives consider a "living wage."
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Offline Tucker

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Re: Just give me a big paycheck dammit!
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2012, 06:44:49 PM »
Quote
Humanist_Activist (1,465 posts)

If a person is working 40 hours a week, they should be paid enough to live off of.
I don't care if they work as a shit shoveler, a burger flipper, or as computer programmers or whatever it is, no full time employee should be denied a living wage.

Can any one of the vast vermin at the DUmp tell me where would there be an incentive to increase your education in order to increase your income potential if all jobs paid the same?

Sound like some Marxist country where you are tested and then assigned a position by the state.
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Come to think of it, unions do create jobs. Companies have to hire two workers to do the work of one.

Offline Dori

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Re: Just give me a big paycheck dammit!
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2012, 07:38:52 PM »
Huh?

Quote
Then there's the self-employed. I am one of those, thanks to setting out a couple of years ago with the goal of never EVER working for anyone else for the rest of my life. I'm what some here might consider "rich," but how would the legislation you have in mind deal with the self-employed who are just barely scraping by? One way, I guess, would be to reduce the self-employment penalty tax, which is absolute bullshit, penalizing independent-minded entrepreneurs. But other than that, how would you address this aspect of it?


What self imployment penalty?  The only thing a self employed person pays that an employee doesn't pay is the employer's portion of FICA and Medicare.

Hey dummy, you are your own employee and that money goes into your retirement and IS NOT a penalty.  It's also a deductible expense.    :rant:
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Offline Splashdown

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Re: Just give me a big paycheck dammit!
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2012, 02:54:12 PM »
Think those fast food workers have cell phones? Maybe even smart phones?

Do they have Internet access?

Do they have heat?

How many TVs do you think they have? Cable channels?

Air conditioning?

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Offline FlaGator

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Re: Just give me a big paycheck dammit!
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2012, 03:29:53 PM »
Libs, business are not created to employ people. That just happens to be a consequence of a business becoming successful. They don't owe you a living wage by default. People have skills that have very degrees of value. Anyone can flip a hamburger but only trained people can program a computer, thus computer programs make more money than burger flippers. No only is a person paid based on their skill level they are also paid based on the amount of time that they use that skill for the employer's benefit. You work less you get paid less. If a machine can do 50% or your job then you make 50% less. If the machine can do 100% of you job then you are out a job and get paid $0.00

This isn't rocket science. If it were then I'd be making a lot of money right now for explaining it to you.
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Offline Celtic Rose

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Re: Just give me a big paycheck dammit!
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2012, 04:17:56 PM »
A college degree doesn't mean that you deserve to earn more.  College is a time to gain skills and knowledge that an employer may find useful.  If an employer doesn't find your ability to explain the historical importance of Rembrandt a benefit to their company, you won't get hired.  It is not an employer's job to make sure that you have enough to pay off your loans.

Also, you have no right to live where you can't afford to live.  I look at people in New York City and San Francisco complaining that they can't afford to live, and my first thought is always, why don't you try a different location.  The coasts have higher unemployment and higher cost of living. 
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Offline Evil_Conservative

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Re: Just give me a big paycheck dammit!
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2012, 06:05:31 PM »
Why do the DUmmies think people make a dollar a day?  If you have a minimum wage job, then you better find a better paying job or LEARN TO LIVE ON A TIGHT BUDGET!  Shit, DUmmies... my husband & I make decent money for our ages.  We aren't rich by any means.  However, some stupid tard in the government, or maybe just DUmmies, think our income is the top 10%.  Whatevs.  We live on a budget and if we want something fancy, we have to like OMG totally save for it.  ::)

We haven't had a vacation in YEARS.  Our last vacation was our honeymoon back in 2007.  We drove to Sedona from Phoenix for that.  No beach or overseas honeymoon for us.  The fanciest thing we own is a 12 year old Jaguar.  We were able to save up enough money to buy our first house this past summer.  Not by demanding our employers pay us a "living wage" but by utilizing a ****ing savings account.

We are currently using that same savings account for a trip to Disneyland for our daughter's fourth birthday in June.  We are damn lucky to have jobs still.  Just be thankful you have ANY money coming in it all, dick.  When I was laid off back in 2010, right before Thanksgiving, I took a job that paid $9/hr after I was finally able to find work.  It was a huge pay cut for me, but at no time did I think I wasn't being paid a "living wage".  Stupid...

I just want to punch a DUmmie in the face.
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Offline I_B_Perky

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Re: Just give me a big paycheck dammit!
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2012, 10:32:47 PM »
Quote from: Evil_Conservative on December 01, 2012, 06:05:31 PM
Why do the DUmmies think people make a dollar a day?  If you have a minimum wage job, then you better find a better paying job or LEARN TO LIVE ON A TIGHT BUDGET!  Shit, DUmmies... my husband & I make decent money for our ages.  We aren't rich by any means.  However, some stupid tard in the government, or maybe just DUmmies, think our income is the top 10%.  Whatevs.  We live on a budget and if we want something fancy, we have to like OMG totally save for it.  ::)

We haven't had a vacation in YEARS.  Our last vacation was our honeymoon back in 2007.  We drove to Sedona from Phoenix for that.  No beach or overseas honeymoon for us.  The fanciest thing we own is a 12 year old Jaguar.  We were able to save up enough money to buy our first house this past summer.  Not by demanding our employers pay us a "living wage" but by utilizing a ****ing savings account.

We are currently using that same savings account for a trip to Disneyland for our daughter's fourth birthday in June.  We are damn lucky to have jobs still.  Just be thankful you have ANY money coming in it all, dick.  When I was laid off back in 2010, right before Thanksgiving, I took a job that paid $9/hr after I was finally able to find work.  It was a huge pay cut for me, but at no time did I think I wasn't being paid a "living wage".  Stupid...

I just want to punch a DUmmie in the face.

Daggone it EC!!! Doncha know that the dummies are the smartest, bestest folks in the world and that they should be paid 2 million a year to sit around on their ass and pontificate about all the USA's problems and post their solutions on DU? You and I, however, are stoopid idiots that ain't got the brains to understand that we are voting against our best interests and we should get out there and work for a living!!!

Pisses me off too.   :cheersmate: :cheersmate:
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