Author Topic: Ok, plenty of other folkes are doing it so here is my cut..the 2012 election  (Read 4344 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline EagleKeeper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2585
  • Reputation: +134/-100
  • ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
We are all familiar with the MSM right, to the best of my knowledge they mostly carry water for the administration.

I followed a link over at Ace's place that pointed me to PJ Media and an article by Zombie I think.

Anyway the thrust of the article was to have conservative websites (you know..Fox, Ace, Hotair, Malkin, Drudge, blah blah blah) sorta use the same tactics that the MSM uses.

Sensationalism..Do the same thing that the Obama campaign was doing to Romney, wreck him. Use the conservative blogosphere and use sensational headlines to impact the electorate in the same way that the Obama machine was doing.

I left a comment on Zombies article calling into question the usefulness of expending this kind of effort on conservative internet media. Basically, what I said was that the voters that we need to reach are not going to be reading the websites that he is going to reach and that what we really have to fear is ABC, CBS, NBC and to a lesser extent local Fox affiliates.

I'm reading quite a few folkes on the conservative side that are arguing about giving up some things that I, for one, can't give up. In my mind there are conservative people that are in the process of taking themselves out of 2016, which I think may be a good thing.

But anyway, the point is that our megaphone is so much smaller and confined so artistic reporting and pundits are not going to help.

I don't have an answer but I was bothered by Zombies article.
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
- Napoleon Bonaparte

If you wait by the river long enough the bodies of your enemies will float by.
-Sun Tzu

Offline Ballygrl

  • Lipstick Renegade
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14934
  • Reputation: +983/-120
Do you have a link for the Zombies article?
Quote
"The nation that couldn’t be conquered by foreign enemies has been conquered by its elected officials" odawg Free Republic in reference to the GOP Elites who are no difference than the Democrats

Offline EagleKeeper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2585
  • Reputation: +134/-100
  • ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Do you have a link for the Zombies article?

I will look for it.
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
- Napoleon Bonaparte

If you wait by the river long enough the bodies of your enemies will float by.
-Sun Tzu

Offline Ballygrl

  • Lipstick Renegade
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14934
  • Reputation: +983/-120
OK Thanks! I looked for it at Ace of Spades but I got ticked off at Bobby Jindal, Rand Paul and WSJ's comments on what the Republican Party has to do to win! :argh:
Quote
"The nation that couldn’t be conquered by foreign enemies has been conquered by its elected officials" odawg Free Republic in reference to the GOP Elites who are no difference than the Democrats

Offline ChuckJ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4796
  • Reputation: +534/-37
We are all familiar with the MSM right, to the best of my knowledge they mostly carry water for the administration.

I followed a link over at Ace's place that pointed me to PJ Media and an article by Zombie I think.

Anyway the thrust of the article was to have conservative websites (you know..Fox, Ace, Hotair, Malkin, Drudge, blah blah blah) sorta use the same tactics that the MSM uses.

Sensationalism..Do the same thing that the Obama campaign was doing to Romney, wreck him. Use the conservative blogosphere and use sensational headlines to impact the electorate in the same way that the Obama machine was doing.

I left a comment on Zombies article calling into question the usefulness of expending this kind of effort on conservative internet media. Basically, what I said was that the voters that we need to reach are not going to be reading the websites that he is going to reach and that what we really have to fear is ABC, CBS, NBC and to a lesser extent local Fox affiliates.

I'm reading quite a few folkes on the conservative side that are arguing about giving up some things that I, for one, can't give up. In my mind there are conservative people that are in the process of taking themselves out of 2016, which I think may be a good thing.

But anyway, the point is that our megaphone is so much smaller and confined so artistic reporting and pundits are not going to help.

I don't have an answer but I was bothered by Zombies article.

I agree with you. The people who are really undecided or just don't know any better are constantly exposed to the MSM in some fashion. The people who are (or would be) exposed to conservative websites are usually already conservative.

Now one thing that might be somewhat helpful to the conservative cause would be to give factual and reasoned conservative responses to liberal propaganda on MSM websites and places like YouTube, Yahoo, etc. The only way that would be successful, however, would probably be that when the moonbats attack in response (which they would) keep the replies to them factual, calm, and to the point.
“Don’t vote for the person who tells you you deserve something. Just don’t do it if it’s something other than life, liberty, or the pursuit of possible happiness. If everyone is telling you you deserve something, vote for the one who is promising you the least. Be suspicious of the man or woman who tell you deserve everything. Because you don’t.” ---Mike Rowe

Offline formerlurker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9692
  • Reputation: +802/-833
OK Thanks! I looked for it at Ace of Spades but I got ticked off at Bobby Jindal, Rand Paul and WSJ's comments on what the Republican Party has to do to win! :argh:

But see that's the problem -- how pissed off?   to do something pissed off?

They have been down this road before, know the drill, yada yada yada.  They have to win with the resources they know they can get.   

Offline EagleKeeper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2585
  • Reputation: +134/-100
  • ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
OK Thanks! I looked for it at Ace of Spades but I got ticked off at Bobby Jindal, Rand Paul and WSJ's comments on what the Republican Party has to do to win! :argh:

Ok, I found it. This is the article that caught my attention.

http://pjmedia.com/zombie/2012/09/14/narrative-wars-slap-the-honey-boo-boos-with-truthaganda/

My comment was number 55 I guess but here it is...

Quote
55. JBarks
So…How do you get the honeyb’s to read sites that might be amenable to your advise.

I mean do uninterested/disinterested people that would rather watch honey boo boo put the effort in to get beyond the MSM?

I would posit that they do not/will not so in the end conservative blogs and whatnot just end up preaching to the home team.


This was his answer, make of it you will.

Quote
Zombie
Sigh — in comments above I discuss how our efforts are not intended to actually impact the eyeballs of the Honey Boo Boos themselves but simply change the atmosphere of their environment.


I don't think he answered my question, even in the main article.

Personally I don't think anyone has an answer to my question.
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
- Napoleon Bonaparte

If you wait by the river long enough the bodies of your enemies will float by.
-Sun Tzu

Offline Ballygrl

  • Lipstick Renegade
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14934
  • Reputation: +983/-120
But see that's the problem -- how pissed off?   to do something pissed off?

They have been down this road before, know the drill, yada yada yada.  They have to win with the resources they know they can get.

Pissed off to do the unthinkable and re-register as either a conservative or independent.
Quote
"The nation that couldn’t be conquered by foreign enemies has been conquered by its elected officials" odawg Free Republic in reference to the GOP Elites who are no difference than the Democrats

Offline Ballygrl

  • Lipstick Renegade
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14934
  • Reputation: +983/-120
I kind of agree with him that we have to find a way to get the Honey Boo Boo people involved, and if it takes sensationalism on our part? go for it.
Quote
"The nation that couldn’t be conquered by foreign enemies has been conquered by its elected officials" odawg Free Republic in reference to the GOP Elites who are no difference than the Democrats

Offline EagleKeeper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2585
  • Reputation: +134/-100
  • ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
I agree with you. The people who are really undecided or just don't know any better are constantly exposed to the MSM in some fashion. The people who are (or would be) exposed to conservative websites are usually already conservative.

Now one thing that might be somewhat helpful to the conservative cause would be to give factual and reasoned conservative responses to liberal propaganda on MSM websites and places like YouTube, Yahoo, etc. The only way that would be successful, however, would probably be that when the moonbats attack in response (which they would) keep the replies to them factual, calm, and to the point.


See, this is sorta the same argument that Zombie made and that Bally seems to be making.

I simply don't see how to get these folkes to pay attention to the discussion. If you can't do that then there is no discussion.

How does one give a factual and reasoned conservative response to liberal propaganda on MSM and websites.

Neither my Mom nor my Dad read conservative websites, neither does anyone else I know.

The conservative blogosphere is no where near as strong as some would like to think it is.

Turn on tv to your local abc station, kick back and be informed.
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
- Napoleon Bonaparte

If you wait by the river long enough the bodies of your enemies will float by.
-Sun Tzu

Offline ChuckJ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4796
  • Reputation: +534/-37

See, this is sorta the same argument that Zombie made and that Bally seems to be making.

I simply don't see how to get these folkes to pay attention to the discussion. If you can't do that then there is no discussion.

How does one give a factual and reasoned conservative response to liberal propaganda on MSM and websites.

Neither my Mom nor my Dad read conservative websites, neither does anyone else I know.

The conservative blogosphere is no where near as strong as some would like to think it is.

Turn on tv to your local abc station, kick back and be informed.

It's a facebook world. All of the local news stations around here have websites. Almost every one of them has a comment section following a story. YouTube has a comment section. Yahoo, on their news stories, has a comment section. Some of the people who visit those websites are still in the middle. I'm talking about responding there. So those in the middle who happen to read the comment section sees a rational and factual response to whatever leftwing propaganda has been 'reported'. This MIGHT be somewhat helpful to our cause.

As I said, I don't think anything done on a conservative website is going to turn anyone because such sites are already populated by conservatives.
“Don’t vote for the person who tells you you deserve something. Just don’t do it if it’s something other than life, liberty, or the pursuit of possible happiness. If everyone is telling you you deserve something, vote for the one who is promising you the least. Be suspicious of the man or woman who tell you deserve everything. Because you don’t.” ---Mike Rowe

Offline EagleKeeper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2585
  • Reputation: +134/-100
  • ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
For what it's worth I sometimes abuse myself by reading responses to these articles.

Quite frankly I am not amused. I don't see any conservative outreach coming from there.
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
- Napoleon Bonaparte

If you wait by the river long enough the bodies of your enemies will float by.
-Sun Tzu

Offline ChuckJ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4796
  • Reputation: +534/-37
For what it's worth I sometimes abuse myself by reading responses to these articles.

Quite frankly I am not amused. I don't see any conservative outreach coming from there.

You're not an idiot, and you sometimes read them. I not all that big of an idiot, and I sometimes read them. So chances are that there are other people who sometimes reads them who are not complete idiots. There is a chance, regardless of how small, that those 'not complete idiot' people are for whatever reason undecided.

With that said, in the times I've read the responses they have generally been the standard lib BS with the only occasional conservative response being something along the lines of 'liberals suck'. Such a response is fine here because we all know that liberals suck, but out in the wild of the internet that type of response is not going to sway anyone. A reasoned, factual response, on the other hand, may sway someone. Or at least get them to thinking about options.

Keep in mind that I'm not saying this would make a huge difference and turn the tide because I don't think it will. I'm just saying that it may help a bit and that it definitely wouldn't hurt.
“Don’t vote for the person who tells you you deserve something. Just don’t do it if it’s something other than life, liberty, or the pursuit of possible happiness. If everyone is telling you you deserve something, vote for the one who is promising you the least. Be suspicious of the man or woman who tell you deserve everything. Because you don’t.” ---Mike Rowe

Offline Lemondrop

  • Probationary (Probie)
  • Posts: 1
  • Reputation: +0/-0
Newbie here... Hi, y'all!

Here's the way I see it - I apply the same logic in my Christian faith, as I do in political thought: If everyone - and I do mean EVERYONE - could change the mind on ONE person in the next four years... it would DOUBLE the size of the voting bloc. 

But it takes reaching out, and talking to people gently, quietly, logically.  Planting a seed, that's all it is.

Just my $.02.

Offline wasp69

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7567
  • Reputation: +907/-520
  • Hillbilly Yeti
Personally I don't think anyone has an answer to my question.

I think I may have a solution here and here.  It's not an easy solution but I think it's going to be the most effective.
"We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."

C.S. Lewis

A community may possess all the necessary moral qualifications, in so high a degree, as to be capable of self-government under the most adverse circumstances; while, on the other hand, another may be so sunk in ignorance and vice, as to be incapable of forming a conception of liberty, or of living, even when most favored by circumstances, under any other than an absolute and despotic government.

John C Calhoun, "Disquisition on Government", 1840

Offline Ausonius

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 494
  • Reputation: +66/-4
Looking at the Future..the 2010 and 2012 elections
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2012, 10:28:42 AM »
Many thanks to EagleKeeper for this topic.  2012 makes me wonder about the forces unleashed in 2010!

The Election of 2010 is not without meaning, but it becomes harder to interpret it after the Election of 2012. Did we catch liberals napping in 2010? Why were the gains of 2010 not continued in 2012? Was it because Republicans AGAIN nominated an older white Grandpa, this time with issues like RomneyCare, religion, and Wall Street service to drag him down?

Foot-in-mouth syndrome affected too many candidates in other races.

As a student of History throughout my academic career (which is still perking along), I will say that historians in general make bad seers of the future, despite what one might think. Despite that, History must be a factor in delineating possible paths.

The nature of democracy contains the seeds of its own demise: history has shown this from Athens to Britain. Mediocrity eventually rises to the top, because in a democracy the majority is mediocre ipso facto. Only if they are cognizant that voting for someone like themselves is a guarantee for mediocre government, and then choose candidates more talented than the average American, will democracy function.

We are not seeing such choices however: we see mediocrity everywhere in both parties. And talented, dedicated people are turned away: Romney was not mediocre certainly, which is why his successes in business were interpreted as failures from the perspective of voters who want someone to feel their pain and care about them....and send them a check.

This is why restrictions on democracy were in place earlier in our history, with the Electoral College being just about the last one. We now see Leftists working to let criminals in prisons vote.

Perhaps we "need" a complete national bankruptcy to wake people up, as some have written. But I suspect that such a disaster would simply be blamed on "The Rich" and as "proof" that Capitalism is a failure, and that the gullible would persist in their leftist videoized slumber.

So what do we have? Despair or retrenchment? A lost war or a lost battle? If anything of the Tea-Party Spirit of 2010 is left alive - and I think it is - then 2014 and 2016 can be a time for a counter-revolution against Socialism...but not if people shrug.

I have told my students that "forces of History" do not exist: what does exist are the billions of choices, small and large, which we make every day. e.g. When we choose NOT to protest a leftist teacher in high-school propagandizing our children, because we are too polite, or are too busy running our businesses, or working overtime, or have thrown up our hands that it will not do any good, we have made a small choice which contributes to the persistence of Leftism. When we patronize the movie with the leftist movie star, we have made a choice which could in the long term influence the direction of the country. No extraneous "force of History" exists pushing us in that direction: we choose it.

Is the war lost? Possibly. It is still too early to tell: so we can still protest and with the Internet organize better than ever before. It will be especially interesting to see if Catholic bishops and priests (and others) across the nation make good on their promise to be jailed rather than submit to MAObamaCare's attack on Freedom of Religion. That could be the bridge too far for this regime.

But even if the war is over, why submit to the Dictatorship of the Lazytariat? 
"Every democracy eventually becomes a bilge pump expelling the most hilarious and unwitting self-satire."

Offline wasp69

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7567
  • Reputation: +907/-520
  • Hillbilly Yeti
Re: Looking at the Future..the 2010 and 2012 elections
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2012, 04:04:54 PM »
Many thanks to EagleKeeper for this topic.  2012 makes me wonder about the forces unleashed in 2010!

The Election of 2010 is not without meaning, but it becomes harder to interpret it after the Election of 2012. Did we catch liberals napping in 2010? Why were the gains of 2010 not continued in 2012? Was it because Republicans AGAIN nominated an older white Grandpa, this time with issues like RomneyCare, religion, and Wall Street service to drag him down?

Foot-in-mouth syndrome affected too many candidates in other races.

As a student of History throughout my academic career (which is still perking along), I will say that historians in general make bad seers of the future, despite what one might think. Despite that, History must be a factor in delineating possible paths.

The nature of democracy contains the seeds of its own demise: history has shown this from Athens to Britain. Mediocrity eventually rises to the top, because in a democracy the majority is mediocre ipso facto. Only if they are cognizant that voting for someone like themselves is a guarantee for mediocre government, and then choose candidates more talented than the average American, will democracy function.

We are not seeing such choices however: we see mediocrity everywhere in both parties. And talented, dedicated people are turned away: Romney was not mediocre certainly, which is why his successes in business were interpreted as failures from the perspective of voters who want someone to feel their pain and care about them....and send them a check.

This is why restrictions on democracy were in place earlier in our history, with the Electoral College being just about the last one. We now see Leftists working to let criminals in prisons vote.

Perhaps we "need" a complete national bankruptcy to wake people up, as some have written. But I suspect that such a disaster would simply be blamed on "The Rich" and as "proof" that Capitalism is a failure, and that the gullible would persist in their leftist videoized slumber.

So what do we have? Despair or retrenchment? A lost war or a lost battle? If anything of the Tea-Party Spirit of 2010 is left alive - and I think it is - then 2014 and 2016 can be a time for a counter-revolution against Socialism...but not if people shrug.

I have told my students that "forces of History" do not exist: what does exist are the billions of choices, small and large, which we make every day. e.g. When we choose NOT to protest a leftist teacher in high-school propagandizing our children, because we are too polite, or are too busy running our businesses, or working overtime, or have thrown up our hands that it will not do any good, we have made a small choice which contributes to the persistence of Leftism. When we patronize the movie with the leftist movie star, we have made a choice which could in the long term influence the direction of the country. No extraneous "force of History" exists pushing us in that direction: we choose it.

Is the war lost? Possibly. It is still too early to tell: so we can still protest and with the Internet organize better than ever before. It will be especially interesting to see if Catholic bishops and priests (and others) across the nation make good on their promise to be jailed rather than submit to MAObamaCare's attack on Freedom of Religion. That could be the bridge too far for this regime.

But even if the war is over, why submit to the Dictatorship of the Lazytariat? 

Very well said!  Bravo, sir!  I think you might need to bring that last line over here and repeat it as necessary.
"We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."

C.S. Lewis

A community may possess all the necessary moral qualifications, in so high a degree, as to be capable of self-government under the most adverse circumstances; while, on the other hand, another may be so sunk in ignorance and vice, as to be incapable of forming a conception of liberty, or of living, even when most favored by circumstances, under any other than an absolute and despotic government.

John C Calhoun, "Disquisition on Government", 1840

Offline Ausonius

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 494
  • Reputation: +66/-4
Re: Looking at the Future..the 2010 and 2012 elections
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2012, 05:55:02 PM »
Very well said!  Bravo, sir!  I think you might need to bring that last line over here and repeat it as necessary.

Many thanks for the compliment!

To continue just a little, we see "compromising fever" hitting the RINO's already, with talk about going along with tax increases to be "realistic."  And because the American public seemingly voted in favor of higher taxes by re-electing MAObama, our nervous quislings cave in immediately.

On the other hand, half the states with 54% of the population have solidly Republican legislatures and governors, some with huge majorities, and another group of states has split between the two parties.  This should give us hope for the future.  Fewer than 20 states with less than a majority of the population are "solid Blue."

Certainly this is not like e.g. 1964. 
"Every democracy eventually becomes a bilge pump expelling the most hilarious and unwitting self-satire."

Offline BigTex

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 967
  • Reputation: +35/-135
To continue just a little, we see "compromising fever" hitting the RINO's already, with talk about going along with tax increases to be "realistic."  And because the American public seemingly voted in favor of higher taxes by re-electing MAObama, our nervous quislings cave in immediately

You wouldnt agree to a 10/1 spending cut to tax increase? The cost for dems to end the bush tax cuts on the top tax bracket would nearly balance the budget, ending it for all Americans would end all federal spending.
Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism. -Kenny Powers

Offline Ausonius

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 494
  • Reputation: +66/-4
You wouldnt agree to a 10/1 spending cut to tax increase? The cost for dems to end the bush tax cuts on the top tax bracket would nearly balance the budget, ending it for all Americans would end all federal spending.

Sure, but...

The problem is that whenever one "compromises" with Leftists on spending cuts, the cuts never happen, or at least not to the degree originally agreed to.  This is why the FedGov is bigger than ever.

$10.00 in cuts for every dollar in tax hikes would be nice, but Dems would agree only to the opposite....and then spend more anyway.
"Every democracy eventually becomes a bilge pump expelling the most hilarious and unwitting self-satire."

Offline BigTex

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 967
  • Reputation: +35/-135
Sure, but...

The problem is that whenever one "compromises" with Leftists on spending cuts, the cuts never happen, or at least not to the degree originally agreed to.  This is why the FedGov is bigger than ever.

$10.00 in cuts for every dollar in tax hikes would be nice, but Dems would agree only to the opposite....and then spend more anyway.

the problem is though even if the 10 to 1 was iron clad the GOP wouldnt agree to it.
Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism. -Kenny Powers