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Author Topic: Yeah. I remember the first ultrasound where we saw a fetal heartbeat too.  (Read 4830 times)

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Offline Freeper

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Yeah. I remember the first ultrasound where we saw a fetal heartbeat too.
« on: October 12, 2012, 06:33:10 AM »
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Plaid Adder (5,372 posts)

Yeah. I remember the first ultrasound where we saw a fetal heartbeat too.


 
And yet I remain pro-choice.

And here is why, moved up from the bottom of the thread:

We had a lot of emotional experiences related to ultrasounds during Mrs. Plaidder's pregnancy with PJ. Some exhilarating, some heartbreaking. That is what pregnancy is like. There are so many opportunities for things to go wrong. It is a perilous nine months, and one of the things you learn by making that journey is that conception does not guarantee life.

I know so many women who have had one miscarriage, two miscarriages, multiple rounds of failed IVFs, stillbirths...all while desperately wanting to keep the children they lost. I remember the way a friend described looking at the ultrasound that showed that their daughter's heart had stopped beating--a day before her due date. I know what a fetus whose heart stopped beating days ago looks like on an ultrasound.

All the women I know who lost these pregnancies grieved over them. No matter how far along they were. Eight weeks, seven months, nine months minus a day. The loss of the pregnancy is the loss of the child you begin dreaming of the day that test goes positive. Whatever stage it's at.

We came to the decision, early in PJ's gestational period, that we would never be able to bring ourselves to terminate this pregnancy, no matter what the genetic testing showed; so we didn't pay for the genetic screening they push on you everywhere now. It was somewhat startling to discover that when it came to us, there was nothing that could have made us decide to terminate--not even knowing that the child had trisomy-13 or whatever it is that they scare you with to sell the tests.

That is the decision that WE made. That is the decision that WE had the RIGHT to make. And what we want is for EVERY woman to have the RIGHT to make her own decisions about her own pregnancy.That is what WE learned from all those ultrasounds. For me or Paul Ryan or anyone else to tell some woman who wants to end her pregnancy no, don't do it, that's not what I would do is just as wrong as it would have been for our doctors to say you must take the test, and if it is positive, you must abort. About something this personal, this vital, this potentially life-changing and all-consuming, it is the people going through the pregnancy who MUST have the right to make the decisions. Anything else is a brutal violation of your human rights.

Conception, gestation, delivery, all these things are so much more chancy and indeterminate and unpredictable than these people want you to believe. Life may or may not begin at conception. But women going through this know all too well that conception does not guarantee birth. I know. I have spent more nights than you want to know trying to answer the question why. Why could this baby not have lived? Why was I allowed to conceive but not to give birth? Why does God, or why does nature, allow fetuses and embryos to be created which are genetically non-viable and therefore doomed never to be born? Why all this waste of potential life?

This shit is complicated, it is emotional, it is hard, it is a source of real grief for so many women. And when I see a guy like Paul Ryan tell a story like this and then look out at us with his Disney doe eyes as if that makes it all so simple...well, I am going to see if I can get through this paragraph without using any more profanity. What you saw on that ultrasound, Paul, was possibility. A possible child and an actual child are two different things. Trust me. People break their hearts on that difference.

It's all so simple to you, you arrogant...well, OK, I'm in a new paragraph now, but still, serentiy now. All right. There are many things I am sick of. One is the way the right manipulates fetal imaging for its own purposes. Because what htey are doing is playing with the heartshaking emotions attached to pregnancy in an attempt to score their bullshit political points. And that is not OK, all right? Our hearts are not your ****ing playthings, any more than our bodies are.

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I haven't seen the Plaid Added in a long time. For some reason I had thought this DUmmy was a she.

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Diego_Native 2012 (2 posts)
1. Yes...I used reason and science...

...then I completely ignore them and base my decisions on my hatred of freedom and women.

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laundry_queen (3,228 posts)
2. I've BTDT 4 times

And I also love my children with all my heart. And I still am pro-choice, precisely because of those 4 beautiful girls I have.

That makes no sense, you are pro killing babies in the womb because you love your daughters?

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gollygee (10,219 posts)
3. Two kids, two ultrasounds

I cried when I saw the heartbeat. That was my baby's little heartbeat.

But I wanted those babies and I chose to have them. I am fully pro-choice.

If I ever start reading DU and they start making sense to me, I will know that I have lost my mind. These people are so backwards. They will fight to death to protect the right for women to kill the unborn because they feel like it, yet they will cry themselves to sleep every night over cop killers who are receiving justice for their crimes. That's right execute the innocent and spare the guilty.  :banghead:
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Offline Gina

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Re: Yeah. I remember the first ultrasound where we saw a fetal heartbeat too.
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2012, 06:36:27 AM »
They say abortion is not wrong yet each of them couldn't bring themselves to abort their own?  is that what this thread is about? :???:
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Offline MrsSmith

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Re: Yeah. I remember the first ultrasound where we saw a fetal heartbeat too.
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2012, 07:03:07 AM »
They admit that their children are obviously alive, obviously children, yet SUPPORT the CHOICE to kill other children based on feelings. That is the compassionate left for you.  :mad:
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Offline jtyangel

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Re: Yeah. I remember the first ultrasound where we saw a fetal heartbeat too.
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2012, 07:18:29 AM »
Quote from: MrsSmith on October 12, 2012, 07:03:07 AM
They admit that their children are obviously alive, obviously children, yet SUPPORT the CHOICE to kill other children based on feelings. That is the compassionate left for you.  :mad:

Yep that's what it boils down too. Morals are relative. Is it any wonder liberals slip so quickly into tyranny and genocide considering their views?
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Offline Rebel

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Re: Yeah. I remember the first ultrasound where we saw a fetal heartbeat too.
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2012, 07:23:00 AM »
The ONLY issue those DUmbasses are "Pro-Choice" on involves killing a child. That should tell you everything you need to now about those morally-degraded ****tards.
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Offline Carl

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Re: Yeah. I remember the first ultrasound where we saw a fetal heartbeat too.
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2012, 07:49:03 AM »
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What you saw on that ultrasound, Paul, was possibility. A possible child and an actual child are two different things. Trust me. People break their hearts on that difference.

Some statements are idiocy and others just a display of evil.
This one is the most vile combination of both.

**** you,you miserable cretin. :bird:
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Offline Freeper

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Re: Yeah. I remember the first ultrasound where we saw a fetal heartbeat too.
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2012, 07:55:03 AM »
Quote from: Carl on October 12, 2012, 07:49:03 AM
Some statements are idiocy and others just a display of evil.
This one is the most vile combination of both.

**** you,you miserable cretin. :bird:

A child is nothing other than a possible adult. Yet we don't kill children on that logic, well not yet anyway.

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Offline MrsSmith

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Re: Yeah. I remember the first ultrasound where we saw a fetal heartbeat too.
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2012, 08:00:42 AM »
Quote from: Rebel on October 12, 2012, 07:23:00 AM
The ONLY issue those DUmbasses are "Pro-Choice" on involves killing a child. That should tell you everything you need to now about those morally-degraded ****tards.
Oh, no, they are basically pro -choice on anything sex -based.  They are only anti -choice on things that really matter, like honor, decency, morality, Christianity, the Constitution ... anything that might limit their ability to be selfish and irresponsible.
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Offline USA4ME

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Re: Yeah. I remember the first ultrasound where we saw a fetal heartbeat too.
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2012, 08:08:02 AM »
Quote from:
Plaid Adder

For me or Paul Ryan or anyone else to tell some woman who wants to end her pregnancy no, don't do it, that's not what I would do is just as wrong as it would have been for our doctors to say you must take the test, and if it is positive, you must abort. About something this personal, this vital, this potentially life-changing and all-consuming, it is the people going through the pregnancy who MUST have the right to make the decisions. Anything else is a brutal violation of your human rights.

It will never be wrong to tell someone that abortion is immoral.  Preventing someone from doing something that is immoral trumps human rights (as you define it).  To not understand this is to have your conscience seered so that their is no morality in your life.  You and your fellow liberals have crossed that threshold, and you'll have to live with the consequences.

Quote from:
What you saw on that ultrasound, Paul, was possibility. A possible child and an actual child are two different things. Trust me. People break their hearts on that difference.

What you saw was an actual child.  That something could go wrong between that point and the day of birth is a possibility.  Until you understand that simple, yet indisputibly true, concept, you'll never really be human yourself.

.

« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 09:05:08 AM by USA4ME »
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Offline WinOne4TheGipper

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Re: Yeah. I remember the first ultrasound where we saw a fetal heartbeat too.
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2012, 08:24:54 AM »
Quote from: Gina on October 12, 2012, 06:36:27 AM
They say abortion is not wrong yet each of them couldn't bring themselves to abort their own?  is that what this thread is about? :???:

I think they're saying that even though they can still hear a heartbeat, that life doesn't matter because choice.  Apparently, in bizarro land, choice trumps life no matter the evidence.   That's what they tell themselves so that their fragile consciences aren't bothered by a worse slaughter than the holocaust.
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Offline Jasonw560

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Re: Yeah. I remember the first ultrasound where we saw a fetal heartbeat too.
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2012, 08:47:33 AM »
Everyone here knows why I am pro-life. DUmmies, if you're lurking, look around and you'll find out why.

Now, Plaid Ass, when you saw that heartbeat, what did you think? Did you HONESTLY think, "Wow, that's my zygote!!" If you say yes, I call a big truckload pile of BS on you. You. Called. That. Baby. Your. Child.

Why? Because it IS a child. Not a "perceived" child. These women (and men) who grieve for their stillborn babies are doing that because they are just that-babies. They take care of them, do things to help them develop in every sense. Have check ups to make sure the child is fine. Why? Because there is something there called true, unconditional love. When the babies die, it breaks their hearts because of that unconditional love.

My wife's pregnancy was a high-risk (because of twins). We opted to take the triple screen. Took it on Thursday, got the results on Friday. We were told that both children would have severe Down's syndrome. We never thought, that entire weekend, about aborting. Monday came, they did the test wrong, and the boys were fine. But, if God decided (or the hand of fate, if you prefer) that we were to raise severe Down's syndrome children, then so be it.

The difference is because we believe in the sanctity of innocent life. We have TRUE decency, compassion, respect, love, and honor. You are vile, loathsome, apathetic, ignorant, and downright evil.

The saddest part is that your kind will NEVER understand where we are coming from. You will never know decency, respect, honesty, humility. And I feel sorrow for you and your soul.

If ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest person in the universe.

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Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: Yeah. I remember the first ultrasound where we saw a fetal heartbeat too.
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2012, 08:50:37 AM »
I remember seeing our daughter on the ultrasound for the first time.  I thought to myself, "Hi, Ellen!"  (I was thinking about a Blackwater security team back then, too, to provide overwatch on her dates.)  How someone could murder a perfect little human being is waaaaaay beyond me.  The primitives are interested in one thing only--blood sacrifice.
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Offline BEG

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Re: Yeah. I remember the first ultrasound where we saw a fetal heartbeat too.
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2012, 08:54:00 AM »
You people (DUmmies) aren't normal.
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Offline Celtic Rose

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Re: Yeah. I remember the first ultrasound where we saw a fetal heartbeat too.
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2012, 08:57:17 AM »
A fetus is not a "possible child" it is a child, period.  One the egg is fertilized, it has its own DNA, separate from the mother. Yes, it is sheltered in the mother's body, but it is separate, and serious consequences can occur if the child's blood mixes with the mothers. 
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Offline wasp69

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Re: Yeah. I remember the first ultrasound where we saw a fetal heartbeat too.
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2012, 09:20:26 AM »
Quote from: BlueStateSaint on October 12, 2012, 08:50:37 AM
I remember seeing our daughter on the ultrasound for the first time.  I thought to myself, "Hi, Ellen!"  (I was thinking about a Blackwater security team back then, too, to provide overwatch on her dates.)  How someone could murder a perfect little human being is waaaaaay beyond me.  The primitives are interested in one thing only--blood sacrifice.

The first ultrasound for my 14 year old son was the most breathtaking.  The ultrasound tech was able to catch so many clear shots that it was amazing.  I looked at this child and clearly saw how his legs were made, how his body was built, and even what his face looked like.

My first thought, at the end of 6 months of pregnancy, was that looked just like me.  When he popped out, I was right.  An unbelievable experience to be sure.

It never occurred to me, though, to end his life...
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Offline Gina

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Re: Yeah. I remember the first ultrasound where we saw a fetal heartbeat too.
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2012, 09:30:07 AM »
Quote from: wasp69 on October 12, 2012, 09:20:26 AM
The first ultrasound for my 14 year old son was the most breathtaking.  The ultrasound tech was able to catch so many clear shots that it was amazing.  I looked at this child and clearly saw how his legs were made, how his body was built, and even what his face looked like.

My first thought, at the end of 6 months of pregnancy, was that looked just like me.  When he popped out, I was right.  An unbelievable experience to be sure.

It never occurred to me, though, to end his life...

Very beautiful to see you post that.  I can't understand the coldness one must have in their heart to think of the child as just a ball of cells. 
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Offline Vagabond

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Re: Yeah. I remember the first ultrasound where we saw a fetal heartbeat too.
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2012, 09:30:37 AM »
Quote from: jtyangel on October 12, 2012, 07:18:29 AM
Yep that's what it boils down too. Morals are relative. Is it any wonder liberals slip so quickly into tyranny and genocide considering their views?
They aren't liberals.  They are hedonists, just the same as Plato and Socrates faced.  They regress to tyranny because that is the only way they can compel others to do what they, the philospher kings they think they are, think they should.
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Offline Vagabond

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Re: Yeah. I remember the first ultrasound where we saw a fetal heartbeat too.
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2012, 09:37:42 AM »
My mother would have been advised not to give birth to me.  I was full term but underweight from malnourishment when I was born.  I forget the condition that causes that, but a lot of doctors today would recommend that the pregnancy be terminated due to the fetus "not developing properly".  Doctors later determined that the prenatal supplement that they had advised for mothers at the time was the problem, it was killing some babies and causing birth defects in others.  I was lucky, it seems the bad stuff wasn't getting passed to me.

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Offline Splashdown

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Re: Yeah. I remember the first ultrasound where we saw a fetal heartbeat too.
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2012, 10:06:24 AM »
It's a baby if you want it.

That exact--EXACT--"clump of cells," however, is just a fetus if unwanted.

I'll never get used to the logical gymnastics of those two basic sentences.
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Offline 98ZJUSMC

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Re: Yeah. I remember the first ultrasound where we saw a fetal heartbeat too.
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2012, 10:54:20 AM »
Quote from: Vagabond on October 12, 2012, 09:30:37 AM
They aren't liberals.  They are hedonists, just the same as Plato and Socrates faced.  They regress to tyranny because that is the only way they can compel others to do what they, the philospher kings they think they are, think they should.

Before the turn of the century, I would not have agreed with that, in complete seriousness.  As a joke with reference to their utter lack of a clue, sure.  Now, I have no choice, but to agree.  They have put their faith in a necessary evil that is both, indifferent to death and ambivalent to the truth.  Now, their religion demands ever greater power, more complete control.  The end result can be nothing other than tyranny.
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Offline Rebel

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Re: Yeah. I remember the first ultrasound where we saw a fetal heartbeat too.
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2012, 10:55:27 AM »
Quote from: MrsSmith on October 12, 2012, 08:00:42 AM
Oh, no, they are basically pro -choice on anything sex -based.  They are only anti -choice on things that really matter, like honor, decency, morality, Christianity, the Constitution ... anything that might limit their ability to be selfish and irresponsible.

Now what I'm saying, Mrs. You're opposed to gay marriage. They don't think you should have that choice to be opposed to it. It's their way, or no way. The biggest echo chamber in the country is in the collective minds of the leftist. We have NUMEROUS differences here on the right, yet you don't see us telling each other, "enjoy your stay", etc.
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Offline 67 Rover

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Re: Yeah. I remember the first ultrasound where we saw a fetal heartbeat too.
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2012, 10:56:57 AM »
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We had a lot of emotional experiences related to ultrasounds during Mrs. Plaidder's pregnancy with PJ

WOW that PJ is one lucky kid to have made it out of there alive.
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Offline Toastedturningtidelegs

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Re: Yeah. I remember the first ultrasound where we saw a fetal heartbeat too.
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2012, 10:57:08 AM »
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It's all so simple to you, you arrogant...well, OK, I'm in a new paragraph now, but still, serentiy now. All right. There are many things I am sick of. One is the way the right manipulates fetal imaging for its own purposes. Because what htey are doing is playing with the heartshaking emotions attached to pregnancy in an attempt to score their bullshit political points. And that is not OK, all right? Our hearts are not your ****ing playthings, any more than our bodies are.

Only a leftist would equate human life to "bullshit political points" As usual the "children" on the left don't like being reminded of their ghoulishness. Which party brought this topic into the election again? As I recall it was a certain former Clinton political advisor who started this bullshit.As usual you scumbags look for a wedge when you're leaders are in deep shit!
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Offline 98ZJUSMC

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Re: Yeah. I remember the first ultrasound where we saw a fetal heartbeat too.
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2012, 10:57:56 AM »
Quote from: Splashdown on October 12, 2012, 10:06:24 AM
It's a baby if you want it.


Tweeted, on an Obamaphone.
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Liberal thinking is a two-legged stool and magical thinking is one of the legs, the other is a combination of self-loating and misanthropy.  To understand it, you would have to be able to sit on that stool while juggling two elephants, an anvil and a fragmentation grenade, sans pin.

"Accuse others of what you do." - Karl Marx

Offline 98ZJUSMC

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Re: Yeah. I remember the first ultrasound where we saw a fetal heartbeat too.
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2012, 10:59:50 AM »
Quote from: Toastedturningtidelegs on October 12, 2012, 10:57:08 AM
Only a leftist would equate human life to "bullshit political points" As usual the "children" on the left don't like being reminded of their ghoulishness. Which party brought this topic into the election again? As I recall it was a certain former Clinton political advisor who started this bullshit.As usual you scumbags look for a wedge when you're leaders are in deep shit!

Sure.   What is a life, compared to free stuff and feeling good?
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Liberal thinking is a two-legged stool and magical thinking is one of the legs, the other is a combination of self-loating and misanthropy.  To understand it, you would have to be able to sit on that stool while juggling two elephants, an anvil and a fragmentation grenade, sans pin.

"Accuse others of what you do." - Karl Marx
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