Author Topic: Ethanol Mandates– the poster child for zombie government programs that never die  (Read 7685 times)

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Offline RobJohnson

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Since the Carter administration the government has been diverting your dollars to put ethanol into your gas tank. Initially it was intended to be a tool to help the United States become energy independent, it then morphed into a tool to help increase gas mileage and later it became a critical element in fighting global warming. Now it doesn’t even do any of those dubious, but theoretically positive, things. It’s simply become another failed government wealth transfer program.

The Wall Street Journal states: Corn is also a key ingredient in the combine of political power and corporate welfare that is U.S. alternative energy policy. The food-to-fuel mandate is known as the Renewable Fuels Standard (RFS) and requires 13.2 billion gallons of ethanol to be blended into the gasoline supply this year and 36 billion gallons by 2022. These quotas are fulfilled almost entirely by corn ethanol.

Ethanol is an industry that enjoys no natural market. The only reason the ethanol market exists in the first place is because of government mandates. And who are the beneficiaries of this corporate welfare that is funded out of your pocket? Mainly members of the farm / finance / producers cabal in the form of the Renewable Fuels Association. This advocacy organization that is simply trying to save our planet is made up of an array good hearted companies that are just too fragile to survive without Uncle Sam’s largesse with your money.

Among these are food processor ADM (Rev = $80 Billion, #28 on the FORTUNE 500), transportation company CSX ($11 Billion, #226) and energy companies Kinder Morgan ($8 Billion, #311) and Noble Group ($80 Billion, #139 on the Global FORTUNE 500). This ethanol boondoggle translates into a $45 billion industry… money that comes out of your pocket and could be spent elsewhere if it were not being, literally, set on fire.

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Offline sunsettommy

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Since the Carter administration the government has been diverting your dollars to put ethanol into your gas tank.

True and it was B.S. from the start too.

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Initially it was intended to be a tool to help the United States become energy independent,...

It is a false premise because it is a LOWER energy source than the gasoline it was intended to supplement.But since it was a GOVERNMENT mandate it was clear that the free market was NOT interested in it.Meanwhile that idiot Carter shuts down Nuclear Energy construction at the same period of time.

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...it then morphed into a tool to help increase gas mileage and later it became a critical element in fighting global warming.


Ethanol DECREASES fuel mileage because it has a much lower octane of 69 to work with and not suitable for older vehicles either as it contributes to internal engine damage due its corrosive chemistry.It was never a credible element for global warming either because CO2 itself does not drive warming at all.The very nature of energy transfer from the atmosphere to space dwarfs the alleged "heat trapping" capability of CO2 by several times over ON A YEARLY BASIS!

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Now it doesn’t even do any of those dubious, but theoretically positive, things. It’s simply become another failed government wealth transfer program.

Ethanol burning promotes ozone pollution in the cities.

Offline Wineslob

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What are these "space dwarfs" and how are they trapping Co2?












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Offline sunsettommy

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 :-)

Well if it is trapped out in space then those dwarfs will be happy..........

Offline RobJohnson

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In the 90's ethanol based fuels caused a lot of problems for fuel injectors. The corn alcohol would displace moisture and cause injectors to rust. It was also very hard on fuel pumps.


Offline JohnnyReb

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"I'm starving to death but by God I can drive myself to the graveyard"....DUmmies.
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Offline RobJohnson

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"I'm starving to death but by God I can drive myself to the graveyard"....DUmmies.


 :lmao:

Offline Lacarnut

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In the process of cooking the corn in the mfg of ethanol, pollution was greater than state and federal allowances. The states and the Feds were going to fine the mfg but guess what. Congress or the EPA alllowed higher pollutions readings. The fines were dropped. As far as I know, this is the first time this has ever happened.

 

Offline sunsettommy

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In the process of cooking the corn in the mfg of ethanol, pollution was greater than state and federal allowances. The states and the Feds were going to fine the mfg but guess what. Congress or the EPA alllowed higher pollutions readings. The fines were dropped. As far as I know, this is the first time this has ever happened.

 

Interesting!

Can you provide a source for this?

Here below is a source that shows the bad side effect of burning Ethanol in cars.It promotes OZONE pollution!

Ethanol, Ozone and the EPA

Offline Lacarnut

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goodle --ethanol plants cited for pollution

Offline RobJohnson

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goodle --ethanol plants cited for pollution

The production of ethanol produces more pollution then burning gas in cars!


Offline LC EFA

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The production of ethanol produces more pollution then burning gas in cars!



My electricity bill skyrockets when I run my ..ehrm "Water Purifier" ... on any regular basis. That electricity is provided from a coal fired facility.

An industrial scale distillation plant goes through shitlots of LNG or electricity to do the same.

I wonder if they include those costs into their model for "pollution" produced / ton of ethanol used as a fuel.


Offline Lacarnut

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goodle --ethanol plants cited for pollution

correcting the word google.

Ethanol emits 2 times the allotted pollution rates set by the state and the Federal Government. Any other business that did that would be fined and shut down.  The EPA comes along and says we will raise the allowable rates just for this one and only manufacturing entity. This sorry ass admin. is just full of special exemptions for the chosen few.

Offline RobJohnson

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correcting the word google.

Ethanol emits 2 times the allotted pollution rates set by the state and the Federal Government. Any other business that did that would be fined and shut down.  The EPA comes along and says we will raise the allowable rates just for this one and only manufacturing entity. This sorry ass admin. is just full of special exemptions for the chosen few.

ADM who has the market share of ethanol production throws money at anyone running for office re guardless of political party.

Offline thundley4

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ADM who has the market share of ethanol production throws money at anyone running for office re guardless of political party.

True, but it makes little sense for them to do so.  They had the grain market well in hand long before the ethanol boondoggle began.

Offline RobJohnson

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True, but it makes little sense for them to do so.  They had the grain market well in hand long before the ethanol boondoggle began.


I think the money keeps Dwayne Andreas out of prison.  :-)

Offline thundley4

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I think the money keeps Dwayne Andreas out of prison.  :-)


That's a possibility.

Offline RobJohnson

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Offline thundley4

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I can't be too critical of ADM since a lot of the electric motors I work on are from one of their divisions, and they are responsible for most of the overtime work that I get.

Offline CG6468

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The gasohol gives me 4.5 MPG less than staight gasoline.

'Splain to me how this helps me lower my costs.
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Offline JohnnyReb

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The gasohol gives me 4.5 MPG less than staight gasoline.

'Splain to me how this helps me lower my costs.

Because they tax other people to subsidize th ...oh, you pay taxes.... nevermind.
“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of ‘liberalism’, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.” - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948

"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within."  Stalin

Offline RobJohnson

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Because they tax other people to subsidize th ...oh, you pay taxes.... nevermind.


 :rofl:

Offline Crazy Horse

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In the 90's ethanol based fuels caused a lot of problems for fuel injectors. The corn alcohol would displace moisture and cause injectors to rust. It was also very hard on fuel pumps.



You don't even want to know what it does to marine engines.

On ADM, about seven years ago I had the pleasure of watching the the ceo serve our fine heroes with his entire family and give the thanks as they deserve with complete humility.
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Offline RobJohnson

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The king of ethanol had a lot of trouble during the late 90's

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The giant agribusiness company had just pleaded guilty to price-fixing and paid a $100 million fine to the U.S. government.

http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2001-07-08/a-different-kind-of-andreas-at-adm

Offline thundley4

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The king of ethanol had a lot of trouble during the late 90's

http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2001-07-08/a-different-kind-of-andreas-at-adm

I still think Mark Whitacre was a scapegoat.