Author Topic: oil price question..  (Read 3935 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Lauri

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3636
  • Reputation: +143/-18
oil price question..
« on: May 21, 2008, 03:44:16 PM »
i just asked this in rants n raves, but didnt want it to get buried.

is the price continuing to go up because people fear we are running out of oil? or there are too many people who need it?

help me out here...  :popcorn:

Offline Rebel

  • MAGA
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16934
  • Reputation: +1384/-215
Re: oil price question..
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2008, 03:52:19 PM »
i just asked this in rants n raves, but didnt want it to get buried.

is the price continuing to go up because people fear we are running out of oil? or there are too many people who need it?

help me out here...  :popcorn:

Supply is increasing exponentially with China and India seeing their demand increase. Only thing we can do is drill for our own oil, build more refineries, and start looking for alternatives.
NAMBLA is a left-wing organization.

Quote
There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site

Offline USA4ME

  • Evil Capitalist
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14835
  • Reputation: +2476/-76
Re: oil price question..
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2008, 04:02:31 PM »
Supply is increasing exponentially with China and India seeing their demand increase. Only thing we can do is drill for our own oil, build more refineries, and start looking for alternatives.

Bingo!  Except I'm afraid the enviro whackos still have a grip on preventing drilling and none of the 3 remaining candidates are going to push to drill or build refineries.  They've all jumped "green" bandwagon which, even if we got started in earnest today, won't produce anything even remotely usable for at least 30 more years.

In short, expect energy prices to remain high and who knows what they'll be in the future.

You study the Roman and Greek and Persian Empires and wonder if they ever knew what would be their demise.  At this point, I'd have to say the enviro kooks have set the USA on the road to our eventual fall.  Communism sucks, but at least they take these fools who want to tie the hands of the country and shoot them, I'll give them that much credit.

.
Because third world peasant labor is a good thing.

Offline DixieBelle

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12143
  • Reputation: +512/-49
  • Still looking for my pony.....
Re: oil price question..
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2008, 04:33:07 PM »
doesn't the falling dollar affect the price of oil?
I can see November 2 from my house!!!

Spread my work ethic, not my wealth.

Forget change, bring back common sense.
-------------------------------------------------

No, my friends, there’s only one really progressive idea. And that is the idea of legally limiting the power of the government. That one genuinely liberal, genuinely progressive idea — the Why in 1776, the How in 1787 — is what needs to be conserved. We need to conserve that fundamentally liberal idea. That is why we are conservatives. --Bill Whittle

Offline Rebel

  • MAGA
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16934
  • Reputation: +1384/-215
Re: oil price question..
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2008, 04:34:28 PM »
doesn't the falling dollar affect the price of oil?

Yes, it has a severe impact.
NAMBLA is a left-wing organization.

Quote
There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site

Offline Lauri

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3636
  • Reputation: +143/-18
Re: oil price question..
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2008, 04:39:14 PM »
i just asked this in rants n raves, but didnt want it to get buried.

is the price continuing to go up because people fear we are running out of oil? or there are too many people who need it?

help me out here...  :popcorn:

Supply is increasing exponentially with China and India seeing their demand increase. Only thing we can do is drill for our own oil, build more refineries, and start looking for alternatives.

ok, so right now, the price is going up overnight, every day, because two big countries are coming online with their needs?

is the price going up to help some countries cut back on their usage so the two new countries coming online dont shock the market?

Offline Lauri

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3636
  • Reputation: +143/-18
Re: oil price question..
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2008, 04:41:29 PM »
Supply is increasing exponentially with China and India seeing their demand increase. Only thing we can do is drill for our own oil, build more refineries, and start looking for alternatives.

Bingo!  Except I'm afraid the enviro whackos still have a grip on preventing drilling and none of the 3 remaining candidates are going to push to drill or build refineries.  They've all jumped "green" bandwagon which, even if we got started in earnest today, won't produce anything even remotely usable for at least 30 more years.

In short, expect energy prices to remain high and who knows what they'll be in the future.

You study the Roman and Greek and Persian Empires and wonder if they ever knew what would be their demise.  At this point, I'd have to say the enviro kooks have set the USA on the road to our eventual fall.  Communism sucks, but at least they take these fools who want to tie the hands of the country and shoot them, I'll give them that much credit.

.

i think you may be right about the enviro-kooks sending us down in flames - but i dont think that's their solution. they really do believe there is a problem, and this will be the key to fixing it.

the rest of us know it wont work, but we seem to be powerless to stop it. McCain jumping on board with the wackos isnt helping us at all either.

Offline Rebel

  • MAGA
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16934
  • Reputation: +1384/-215
Re: oil price question..
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2008, 04:51:13 PM »
ok, so right now, the price is going up overnight, every day, because two big countries are coming online with their needs?

is the price going up to help some countries cut back on their usage so the two new countries coming online dont shock the market?

As Dixie says, it's also tied to the value of our dollar, at least how it concerns us. We need to drill our own oil so issues like that don't affect us as much as it will be drilled, refined, and marketed on our economy, and not hindered by someone else's economy. Only problem is, it's a pipe dream. Companies that deal in commodities are always going to sell to the highest bidder. I'm sure there are many more people on board that are more experienced or knowledgeable on this situation; I'm just looking at if from a simple marketing stance.
NAMBLA is a left-wing organization.

Quote
There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site

Offline Rebel

  • MAGA
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16934
  • Reputation: +1384/-215
Re: oil price question..
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2008, 04:53:39 PM »
....but taking out the value of the dollar, oil has increased about 3-fold, gas prices have increased about 3-fold, and liberals blame the gas companies......who's profit margin is fairly dismal considering what is normal in the business world. Exxon was the only one in a recent release that had above 10%. Shell had 7.5. That sucks.
NAMBLA is a left-wing organization.

Quote
There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site

Offline Lauri

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3636
  • Reputation: +143/-18
Re: oil price question..
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2008, 05:02:37 PM »
ok, so right now, the price is going up overnight, every day, because two big countries are coming online with their needs?

is the price going up to help some countries cut back on their usage so the two new countries coming online dont shock the market?

As Dixie says, it's also tied to the value of our dollar, at least how it concerns us. We need to drill our own oil so issues like that don't affect us as much as it will be drilled, refined, and marketed on our economy, and not hindered by someone else's economy. Only problem is, it's a pipe dream. Companies that deal in commodities are always going to sell to the highest bidder. I'm sure there are many more people on board that are more experienced or knowledgeable on this situation; I'm just looking at if from a simple marketing stance.

well, that helps me a lot. im trying to get the overall view of what is going on - and it would seem to me that if the US used their own oil, well, wouldnt we be getting off the foreign oil?

seems like that's what Dems want, but they dont want to let us do it.

granted, i know we affect other countries economies if we just up and stop using their only, or largest, commodity.

its pretty tangled..

Offline DixieBelle

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12143
  • Reputation: +512/-49
  • Still looking for my pony.....
Re: oil price question..
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2008, 05:13:48 PM »
I think the important thing is that people are starting to really pay attention. Watching oil prices essentially double in such a short amount of time is alarming. My hope is that people will dig deeper and that maybe we'll get some common sense solutions. Unfortunately, the American political machine moves as gracefully as an oil tanker turning on a dime. And takes about as long. Sigh.

I'm trying to wrap my head around this issue too. I did find this online. it's old but the issues are basically the same. Economics and the oil market are over my head.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/P100650.asp
I can see November 2 from my house!!!

Spread my work ethic, not my wealth.

Forget change, bring back common sense.
-------------------------------------------------

No, my friends, there’s only one really progressive idea. And that is the idea of legally limiting the power of the government. That one genuinely liberal, genuinely progressive idea — the Why in 1776, the How in 1787 — is what needs to be conserved. We need to conserve that fundamentally liberal idea. That is why we are conservatives. --Bill Whittle

Offline West Coaster

  • Probationary (Probie)
  • Posts: 50
  • Reputation: +5/-2
Re: oil price question..
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2008, 06:35:32 PM »
ok, so right now, the price is going up overnight, every day, because two big countries are coming online with their needs?

is the price going up to help some countries cut back on their usage so the two new countries coming online dont shock the market?

As Dixie says, it's also tied to the value of our dollar, at least how it concerns us. We need to drill our own oil so issues like that don't affect us as much as it will be drilled, refined, and marketed on our economy, and not hindered by someone else's economy. Only problem is, it's a pipe dream. Companies that deal in commodities are always going to sell to the highest bidder. I'm sure there are many more people on board that are more experienced or knowledgeable on this situation; I'm just looking at if from a simple marketing stance.

well, that helps me a lot. im trying to get the overall view of what is going on - and it would seem to me that if the US used their own oil, well, wouldnt we be getting off the foreign oil?

seems like that's what Dems want, but they dont want to let us do it.

granted, i know we affect other countries economies if we just up and stop using their only, or largest, commodity.

its pretty tangled..

I'm not sure what you mean by "the US used their own oil."  If the private sector drilled for oil in the US, they would sell it at the market rate.  The only way that could affect the price of oil would be if (1) the psychological effect drove oil speculation down or (2) the oil made available from such drilling hforced the global market down due to the added increase in supply.  The remaining alternative would be for the government to mandate that private companies sell the oil drilled in the US for lower prices than available on the world market and that smacks of the same tactics as Hugo Chavez.
When we were at peace, Democrats wanted to raise taxes. Now there's a war, so Democrats want to raise taxes. When there was a surplus, Democrats wanted to raise taxes. Now that there is a mild recession, Democrats want to raise taxes.
-Ann Coulter

Offline Rebel

  • MAGA
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16934
  • Reputation: +1384/-215
Re: oil price question..
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2008, 07:21:58 PM »
I'm not sure what you mean by "the US used their own oil."  If the private sector drilled for oil in the US, they would sell it at the market rate.  The only way that could affect the price of oil would be if (1) the psychological effect drove oil speculation down or (2) the oil made available from such drilling hforced the global market down due to the added increase in supply.  The remaining alternative would be for the government to mandate that private companies sell the oil drilled in the US for lower prices than available on the world market and that smacks of the same tactics as Hugo Chavez.


This is true, but what if the oil companies here were allowed to drill everywhere oil was found in the United States, open more refineries, and flood the market with a larger supply? Why not start out own version of OPEC with the US, Mexico, and Canada? Just wondering. I'm in learning mode here. I know the principles behind supply and demand and also recognize it isn't as simple as it would seem due to the many factors involved.

Besides, if you don't look at the dollar amount, and just focus on the profit margin, their profit margin is dismal. The whole dollar amount can't be used to form a position because, while Shell made 114 billion, everything else is relative.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2008, 07:23:30 PM by Rebel »
NAMBLA is a left-wing organization.

Quote
There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site

Offline Lord Undies

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11388
  • Reputation: +639/-250
Re: oil price question..
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2008, 07:27:24 PM »
I'm not sure what you mean by "the US used their own oil."  If the private sector drilled for oil in the US, they would sell it at the market rate.  The only way that could affect the price of oil would be if (1) the psychological effect drove oil speculation down or (2) the oil made available from such drilling hforced the global market down due to the added increase in supply.  The remaining alternative would be for the government to mandate that private companies sell the oil drilled in the US for lower prices than available on the world market and that smacks of the same tactics as Hugo Chavez.


This is true, but what if the oil companies here were allowed to drill everywhere oil was found in the United States, open more refineries, and flood the market with a larger supply? Why not start out own version of OPEC with the US, Mexico, and Canada? Just wondering. I'm in learning mode here. I know the principles behind supply and demand and also recognize it isn't as simple as it would seem due to the many factors involved.

Besides, if you don't look at the dollar amount, and just focus on the profit margin, their profit margin is dismal. The whole dollar amount can't be used to form a position because, while Shell made 114 billion, everything else is relative.

Take a look see how much Exxon-Mobil and Shell paid in federal taxes.  I never hear a moonbat wonder where that comes from.

Offline West Coaster

  • Probationary (Probie)
  • Posts: 50
  • Reputation: +5/-2
Re: oil price question..
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2008, 10:58:01 AM »
I'm not sure what you mean by "the US used their own oil."  If the private sector drilled for oil in the US, they would sell it at the market rate.  The only way that could affect the price of oil would be if (1) the psychological effect drove oil speculation down or (2) the oil made available from such drilling hforced the global market down due to the added increase in supply.  The remaining alternative would be for the government to mandate that private companies sell the oil drilled in the US for lower prices than available on the world market and that smacks of the same tactics as Hugo Chavez.


This is true, but what if the oil companies here were allowed to drill everywhere oil was found in the United States, open more refineries, and flood the market with a larger supply? Why not start out own version of OPEC with the US, Mexico, and Canada? Just wondering. I'm in learning mode here. I know the principles behind supply and demand and also recognize it isn't as simple as it would seem due to the many factors involved.

Besides, if you don't look at the dollar amount, and just focus on the profit margin, their profit margin is dismal. The whole dollar amount can't be used to form a position because, while Shell made 114 billion, everything else is relative.

You're correct in that it's not particularly simple.  As I and others have noted in another post, the price increase in oil is in large part due to the decline of the dollar.  When it looses value against other currencies, those selling oil, while not explicitly denominating in other currencies, do so implicitly by raising prices in dollars.  There's also the speculation component that's been discussed extensively in the news, with immediate demand (and the possibility of interruption of supplies) influencing the price.  There is virtually no surplus when you look at daily supply and demand.  There is also rapidly increasing demand with India and China entering the industrial world.

Your observation about increasing supply (in any free market economy) is correct.  If the supply is increased dramatically, then prices will decline.  The advantage of finding it inside the US is primarily security rather than price, however, as American produced oil will be sold on the free market at free market prices.

Of all those things, however, this could dramatically lower the price...

Quote
Massive Oil Deposit Could Increase US reserves by 10x
America is sitting on top of a super massive 200 billion barrel Oil Field that could potentially make America Energy Independent and until now has largely gone unnoticed. Thanks to new technology the Bakken Formation in North Dakota could boost America’s Oil reserves by an incredible 10 times, giving western economies the trump card against OPEC’s short squeeze on oil supply and making Iranian and Venezuelan threats of disrupted supply irrelevant.

http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-energy-news2.13s.html
When we were at peace, Democrats wanted to raise taxes. Now there's a war, so Democrats want to raise taxes. When there was a surplus, Democrats wanted to raise taxes. Now that there is a mild recession, Democrats want to raise taxes.
-Ann Coulter

Offline Chris_

  • Little Lebowski Urban Achiever
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46845
  • Reputation: +2028/-266
Re: oil price question..
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2008, 12:45:42 PM »
^And the environmentalists are already screaming about the damage that would be done if the Bakken Field were developed.....

doc
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.