Taxpayer loss on GM bailout rises to $35 billion

[Chris_]

Government Motors: As GM shares near record low, taxpayer loss on bailout rises to $35 billion

General Motors (GM) shares fell to a fresh 2012 closing low of 19.57 on Monday. The stock hit 19 in mid-December, the lowest since the auto giant came public at $33 in November 2010 following its June 2009 bankruptcy.

Normally you might say, tough luck investors. But this is Government Motors. The Treasury still owns 26.5% of GM, or 500 million shares. Taxpayers are still out $26.4 billion in direct aid. Shares would have to hit $53 for the government to break even.

Those shares were worth about $9.8 billion as of Monday. That would leave taxpayers with a loss of $16.6 billion.

Investors Business Daily

"Sure, let's give them the money.  It will be a net benefit when they pay it back."

Yeah, right.

[Kyle Ricky]

But, but, but, GM is back from the brink of extinction and better than ever? I hope they realize that this is what happens when you give a company billions of our tax money to pay off the unions.

[CG6468]

I wish they'd go belly up and get it over with. 

[Kyle Ricky]

They should have forced them into bankruptcy. Letting them take our money like that was ridiculous. I will never buy another GM vehicle again.

[JohnnyReb]

Caught a couple of minutes of CBS News last night. They showed a Chinese couple buying a FORD. They said that in China owning a FORD was a status symbol....

[Chris_]

I won't either.  If I ever need a truck, I'll  buy a old Jeep Wagoneer or a new F-150.  If I need a car, I'll buy another Camry (I have my eye on a Solara).

[Texacon]

This is exactly why I bought a Toyota Tundra.  I couldn't force myself to buy a GM product and the Ford I was driving was a lemon.

Tundra is made right here in Texas in San Antonio by genuine Mexican/American labor!  LOL

2nd best truck I've ever owned to this point in my life and I've owned a lot of them.  Give me a few more years with it and it'll be the best truck I've ever owned.

KC

[Kyle Ricky]

Tundra's are beautiful trucks. I want a new F-150 myself. I can't get past those. They make me drool.

[Texacon]

I had an F-150 King Ranch that stayed in the shop more than I had it.  I traded it in for one of these;



I've got a 2010 Tundra Crew Max 5.7 liter Platinum Edition with raptor running boards.  I LOVE this truck!  More room in the back seat than any car (paying attention ladies?     )  and when you pull out to pass someone it will set you back in your seat.

Not to mention when I tried to pass someone in the F-150 it was limited out at around 98 mph.  I've had this truck up to 120 mph in a passing situation and it was still climbing.  I don't think it IS limited out.

Yeah, you can have your F-150, I'll stick with my Tundra.

KC

[Kyle Ricky]

I had an F-150 King Ranch that stayed in the shop more than I had it.  I traded it in for one of these;



I've got a 2010 Tundra Crew Max 5.7 liter Platinum Edition with raptor running boards.  I LOVE this truck!  More room in the back seat than any car (paying attention ladies?     )  and when you pull out to pass someone it will set you back in your seat.

Not to mention when I tried to pass someone in the F-150 it was limited out at around 98 mph.  I've had this truck up to 120 mph in a passing situation and it was still climbing.  I don't think it IS limited out.

Yeah, you can have your F-150, I'll stick with my Tundra.

KC

KC, that truck is flipping GORGEOUS!  

[Texacon]

KC, that truck is flipping GORGEOUS!  

I think there are only 2 things about this truck I don't like.  The first is the fuel tank.  It's only around 23 or 24 gallons where the F-150 had a 37 gallon tank.  I could go around 600 miles without filling up the Ford.  The Tundra not so much.  I can only get about 370 miles out of a tank.

The second thing is with the Crew Max the beds are short.  I wish the bed was longer. 

One of my favorite features is the 'sliding' back glass.  On the Crew Max's the WHOLE friggin' window slides down.  You can drive down the road with that window open and you don't get a lot of road noise or air noise.  You can also adjust the headlights from inside the truck.  If you're pulling a trailer you have a headlight adjustment in the cab where you can make the headlights aim lower so you're not blinding people if the front of the truck is raised. 

Ahhh yeah, I could talk about that truck all day.  LOL

KC

[Kyle Ricky]

I think there are only 2 things about this truck I don't like.  The first is the fuel tank.  It's only around 23 or 24 gallons where the F-150 had a 37 gallon tank.  I could go around 600 miles without filling up the Ford.  The Tundra not so much.  I can only get about 370 miles out of a tank.

The second thing is with the Crew Max the beds are short.  I wish the bed was longer. 

One of my favorite features is the 'sliding' back glass.  On the Crew Max's the WHOLE friggin' window slides down.  You can drive down the road with that window open and you don't get a lot of road noise or air noise.  You can also adjust the headlights from inside the truck.  If you're pulling a trailer you have a headlight adjustment in the cab where you can make the headlights aim lower so you're not blinding people if the front of the truck is raised. 

Ahhh yeah, I could talk about that truck all day.  LOL

KC

You are making me think twice here. I am going to be torn now!  I will have to look hard and good. As it will be one of them. Decisions, decisions.

[Texacon]

You are making me think twice here. I am going to be torn now!  I will have to look hard and good. As it will be one of them. Decisions, decisions.

You may want to give the Tundra's a look.  They also have a MUCH tighter turning radius.

The F-150 is usually built in Canada.  The Tundra is built in San Antonio.  It doesn't get much simpler than that.  heh.

KC

[Kyle Ricky]

You may want to give the Tundra's a look.  They also have a MUCH tighter turning radius.

The F-150 is usually built in Canada.  The Tundra is built in San Antonio.  It doesn't get much simpler than that.  heh.

KC

What about the cost to drive it and the resale value?

[Texacon]

What about the cost to drive it and the resale value?

As far as maintenance goes, I'm using synthetic oil and changing it every 10,000 miles.  I haven't had a single thing done to the truck in the 2 years I've owned it (bought it new) other than oil changes, tire rotations and alignments.  I have over 55,000 miles on it now.

Gas mileage is suck.  I get about 18 on the interstate and probably 15.5 - 16 around here.

I talked to a mechanic before I bought it and they told me they don't see them come into the shop very often but when they DO come in it can be quite expensive to fix them.

As far as resale .... sheesh.  Ever look at autotrader.com for the Toyota's?  Lord have mercy, may as well buy a new one in most cases.  They seem to do just fine on resale.

One of the biggest reasons I bought this model was because we do a lot of driving and the back seat has enough room that the back seat will actually slide forward and lean back.  The kids love the room.  We have the DVD players in the head rests for them and they'll just lean the seat back, pop in a DVD and we don't hear squat for 3 hours.

KC

[Kyle Ricky]

As far as maintenance goes, I'm using synthetic oil and changing it every 10,000 miles.  I haven't had a single thing done to the truck in the 2 years I've owned it (bought it new) other than oil changes, tire rotations and alignments.  I have over 55,000 miles on it now.

Gas mileage is suck.  I get about 18 on the interstate and probably 15.5 - 16 around here.

I talked to a mechanic before I bought it and they told me they don't see them come into the shop very often but when they DO come in it can be quite expensive to fix them.

As far as resale .... sheesh.  Ever look at autotrader.com for the Toyota's?  Lord have mercy, may as well buy a new one in most cases.  They seem to do just fine on resale.

One of the biggest reasons I bought this model was because we do a lot of driving and the back seat has enough room that the back seat will actually slide forward and lean back.  The kids love the room.  We have the DVD players in the head rests for them and they'll just lean the seat back, pop in a DVD and we don't hear squat for 3 hours.

KC

That isn't bad.

Let's see a 24 gallon tank and 18 mpg on the highway. Gas is $3.19 here, so the cost per mile would be $.17 cents.

The F-150 with a 37 gallon tank: With gas being $3.19, the cost per mile would be $.08 cents per mile.

I just looked at the hold up value and the Toyota does destroy the ford in that aspect. I change my oil every 5,000 miles and use synthetic as well. I never owned a truck, so I am guessing that every 10,000 miles is the norm for them?

The other factor will be how much they are as apposed to the F-150. If they are close to $40,000.00 there is no way I will be getting one. If they are in the mid to low 30's then we might have something.

[zeitgeist]

But, but, but, GM is back from the brink of extinction and better than ever? I hope they realize that this is what happens when you give a company billions of our tax money to pay off the unions.

I thought the union got stock?  (That would have been poetic justice IMHO).

[Texacon]

That isn't bad.

Let's see a 24 gallon tank and 18 mpg on the highway. Gas is $3.19 here, so the cost per mile would be $.17 cents.

The F-150 with a 37 gallon tank: With gas being $3.19, the cost per mile would be $.08 cents per mile.

I just looked at the hold up value and the Toyota does destroy the ford in that aspect. I change my oil every 5,000 miles and use synthetic as well. I never owned a truck, so I am guessing that every 10,000 miles is the norm for them?

The other factor will be how much they are as apposed to the F-150. If they are close to $40,000.00 there is no way I will be getting one. If they are in the mid to low 30's then we might have something.

It's going to depend on what model you're looking at.  The F-150 King Ranch was a comparable pickup to what I bought in the Tundra and they were both very close in price; Low $40's.

I would imagine the same would hold true all the way down through the models.  I know some of the Tundra's are in the $20's.

As to the oil changes, my truck holds 8 quarts so I'm comfortable with 10,000 using the synthetics.  The Toyota also uses a different kind of oil filter.  You don't buy an enclosed filter like you do with other vehicles.  You just by the filter media and pull the housing off to get to the old media and change it.

KC

[Kyle Ricky]

I thought the union got stock?  (That would have been poetic justice IMHO).

My understanding was that the bailout was to pay for all the union pensions and officers. If any of them were giving stock, they would have sold them with the new IPO (Which from what I heard, the unions were the only ones privey to that?). That is if they were smart enough to sell them during the IPO.

It's going to depend on what model you're looking at.  The F-150 King Ranch was a comparable pickup to what I bought in the Tundra and they were both very close in price; Low $40's.

I would imagine the same would hold true all the way down through the models.  I know some of the Tundra's are in the $20's.

As to the oil changes, my truck holds 8 quarts so I'm comfortable with 10,000 using the synthetics.  The Toyota also uses a different kind of oil filter.  You don't buy an enclosed filter like you do with other vehicles.  You just by the filter media and pull the housing off to get to the old media and change it.

KC

That doesn't sound to bad. I was looking on the Toyota website and checking some out. The one I built was around $32,000.00. So that isn't bad.

[Texacon]

My understanding was that the bailout was to pay for all the union pensions and officers. If any of them were giving stock, they would have sold them with the new IPO (Which from what I heard, the unions were the only ones privey to that?). That is if they were smart enough to sell them during the IPO.


That doesn't sound to bad. I was looking on the Toyota website and checking some out. The one I built was around $32,000.00. So that isn't bad.

If I were you I would go test drive them head to head and see what you think.  Drive them in circles to see how tight they turn.  Get out on the interstate and put your foot in it.  Hell, even the windshield wipers on the Toyota work better at speed.

The Tundra was also made to be more of a work truck.  All the knobs were designed be turned while wearing gloves and the console in between the front seats is set up to hold hanging files.

Have fun!

KC

[Lacarnut]

Buffett, the senile old fart and Obama's economic adviser, took it on the chops with GM and GE stock. He lost millions with them two dogs.

Instead of paying the gov. back with their profits, they gave the employees big bonuses. Obama and GM are rotten to the core.

[JohnnyReb]

Just throwing this in for the hell of it.

I bought a new 1970 Chevy 1/2 ton pickup. Small V-8, 8' fleetside bed, stepbumber, tinted glass, not the highest priced and not the cheapest...flat $2,500 tags, tax and all.

Times have really changed.

[thundley4]

Just throwing this in for the hell of it.

I bought a new 1970 Chevy 1/2 ton pickup. Small V-8, 8' fleetside bed, stepbumber, tinted glass, not the highest priced and not the cheapest...flat $2,500 tags, tax and all.

Times have really changed.

You can't touch a ten year old truck for that price  now.

[Texacon]

Just throwing this in for the hell of it.

I bought a new 1970 Chevy 1/2 ton pickup. Small V-8, 8' fleetside bed, stepbumber, tinted glass, not the highest priced and not the cheapest...flat $2,500 tags, tax and all.

Times have really changed.

Yeah but that was before O'bama!!

LOL

KC

[JohnnyReb]

Yeah but that was before O'bama!!

LOL

KC

...and before Clinton.

In 1992 I bought a new 4-door F-350 FORD diesel dually with everything they had on it for just $21,150 cash and that included Tags, tax and extended warranty.

I can't afford one now though.