Author Topic: Roberts Obamacare decision  (Read 2878 times)

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Offline EagleKeeper

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Roberts Obamacare decision
« on: July 02, 2012, 04:38:27 PM »
This is starting to bother me.

In the opinion Roberts wrote that it is not the job of the supreme court to judge legislation on the merits of its wisdom, only on its constitutionality.

Look, I understand that there was some goofy stuff with ACA but that is not what I'm looking at.

Roberts is taking a beatdown for just looking at the law as passed, looking at the arguemen ts as presented to the supreme court and making a judgement.

I don't even understand this deal about him changing his mind...so what...I change my mind about 100 times a day.

Does the House have the power to levy taxes or does it not, in my mind that is the only question, the freaking lawyer for the administration made that argument so it had to be considered.

There is a ton of folkes that I read, alot, that don't seem to get the point the way I see it.

Obviously I got something wrong but I just don't know what it is.

I don't care about any twisted theorys, It's just the actual decision itself from the standpoint of what was presented to the court.

There are lead pipe cinches on both sides, I so don't care about them, What the heck am I missing?
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Offline Danglars

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Re: Roberts Obamacare decision
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2012, 04:47:20 PM »
The core of it, EK, is that no matter what you call it, Roberts gave Congress unlimited power to tax all of us for not buying anything and everything. Taxes without transactions of any kind. That's new. There's no limit at all to it now. That's why Roberts justificably deserves thiis calumny.

I don't know of any precedent in the tax code for taxing someone if nothing is done. Roberts has subsumed penalizing into taxation.

Offline EagleKeeper

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Re: Roberts Obamacare decision
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2012, 04:57:53 PM »
Thanks for replying Danglars.

Allow me to to drill down a bit further.

1) Does the house have the right (constitutionally) to levy a tax no matter how outrageous it may be?

2) If you were Justice Roberts on what reason would you have ruled to strike down the mandate, or the whole law or whatever.

If I'm missing any details, please let me know.

I'm not even thinking of Romney's dumbass adviser right now.
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Offline BigTex

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Re: Roberts Obamacare decision
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2012, 06:42:55 PM »
I'm not even thinking of Romney's dumbass adviser right now.

What wrong with his adviser? he just said the Romney agreed with the conservative justices that the mandate was a penalty and the law should have been rendered unconstitutional.
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Offline EagleKeeper

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Re: Roberts Obamacare decision
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2012, 07:05:31 PM »
The only reason that Fehrnstroms remarks piss me off is that this stuff is settteled.

It's been ruled on and found to constitutional.

How soon is this going to back to the supreme court?

Still trying to call this anything but a tax is less then helpfull.

The administration argued that it was a tax, Roberts agreed.

I think that needs to be taken to the bank

What the heck does Fehrnstrom think they can accomplish by agreeing with the administration? Again , is there a chance that this is going back to the supreme court...if no then I think that we need to take the word of barry big ears and his lawyer and the decision of the court all the way to the inauguration.
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Offline Zeus

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Re: Roberts Obamacare decision
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2012, 07:14:23 PM »
What wrong with his adviser? he just said the Romney agreed with the conservative justices that the mandate was a penalty and the law should have been rendered unconstitutional.

The SCOTUS decision did in effect put restraint on congressional over reach on use of the commerce clause to justify their actions. The mandate is a tax. In today's political environment passing more taxes is extremely difficult and borders on political suicide. It remains to be seen but I think Roberts preserved the commerce clause and put a servere onous on congress when it comes to taxation.
It is said that branches draw their life from the vine. Each is separate yet all are one as they share one life giving stem . The Bible tells us we are called to a similar union in life, our lives with the life of God. We are incorporated into him; made sharers in his life. Apart from this union we can do nothing.

Offline EagleKeeper

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Re: Roberts Obamacare decision
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2012, 07:17:48 PM »
So Krauthamer just made the arguement that the anti-injuction act should apply. that pushes it off to 2014, basicaly someone needs to get harmed before it even enters the court system.

Again I just totally do not understand the reaction from the right.
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Offline EagleKeeper

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Re: Roberts Obamacare decision
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2012, 07:59:00 PM »
Ok, so let me change this up a bit.

As we know things as they are today is there a reason the law or the mandate could have stuck been down?
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Offline Carl

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Re: Roberts Obamacare decision
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2012, 08:18:34 PM »
To me one should not be allowed to rewrite a law on the floor of the Supreme Court in arguments.
When it was argued that it should be considered a tax the Justices should have said,it was not written as one so that does not apply.

Offline EagleKeeper

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Re: Roberts Obamacare decision
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2012, 09:29:17 PM »
Carl, I've been staring at your post for about 2 hours now and I haven't been able to come up with a retort.
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
- Napoleon Bonaparte

If you wait by the river long enough the bodies of your enemies will float by.
-Sun Tzu

Offline 5412

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Re: Roberts Obamacare decision
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2012, 09:58:59 PM »
This is starting to bother me.

In the opinion Roberts wrote that it is not the job of the supreme court to judge legislation on the merits of its wisdom, only on its constitutionality.

Look, I understand that there was some goofy stuff with ACA but that is not what I'm looking at.

Roberts is taking a beatdown for just looking at the law as passed, looking at the arguemen ts as presented to the supreme court and making a judgement.

I don't even understand this deal about him changing his mind...so what...I change my mind about 100 times a day.

Does the House have the power to levy taxes or does it not, in my mind that is the only question, the freaking lawyer for the administration made that argument so it had to be considered.

There is a ton of folkes that I read, alot, that don't seem to get the point the way I see it.

Obviously I got something wrong but I just don't know what it is.

I don't care about any twisted theorys, It's just the actual decision itself from the standpoint of what was presented to the court.

There are lead pipe cinches on both sides, I so don't care about them, What the heck am I missing?

Hi,

Here is what I got out of it.

1.  Congress has the right to tax most anything but the people have the right to hold their feet to the fire for it.  Like it or not the libs just shoved the biggest tax increase in history down our throat.  Even with that, it will  come something like $1.4 trillion short of the costs.......which means the death panels will prevail, has to happen.

2.  The libs tried to get it through the Supremes by saying it was covered under the commerce clause.  Remember the federal government provides for the common defense and regulates trade...all the rest is left to the states....yeah right!  Roberts point was it was not covered under the commerce clause because it was a non-event, the person who is being taxed did nothing; therefore there was no commerce.  That has needed to be reigned in for quite sometime and in the long run it has clipped the wings of the liberals.

3.  Now here is the kicker.  He also said the states could opt out and the federal government cannot penalize them for doing so.  You had 26 states file suit so if they all opt out,there is no national health care.  Strong case for state sovereignty.

While a lot of us would have just preferred the Supremes said it was unconstitutional this is the second best thing and not so bad.  I still recall the confirmation hearing for Roberts when he was asked about protecting the little guy.  His response is that he will make rulings according to the Constitution.  If the Constitution says the little guy wins, that is how he rules, if it says the big guy wins, that is how he rules.  When he took the job of writing the majority opinion he did us all a huge favor.

Now here are some scenarios.  This election is now a clear cut vote on Obamacare.  If you will recall, when it passed something like 56% of the American people were opposed to it so they were governing against the will of the people.  Rasmussen polls since that time still show the majority of the public oppose the law.  So if the people vote in a democrat congress and they keep the law, then it is OUR problem.  I am not so sure that 100% of the democrats would vote to retain the law either.

And finally.  After the 2008 election there was a Russian scholar that predicted the US would splinter like Russia did into several smaller countries.  The affirmation of state sovereignty and the way the country is headed, it would not surprise me if that happened.  This time a civil war; possibly without a shot being fired. 

Bottom line, the working class has had all the BS they need.  They can easily take back the country as Obamacare can be repealed with 51 cotes in the senate.  If they do not, then we deserve to suffer the consequences.  I love it when the governor of FL told the federal government to shove it, they are going to make sure all voters are legal.  Hopefully more states will follow suit.

Interesting times folks, we have the power to prevail if we do not screw it up.

regards,
5412

Offline thundley4

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Re: Roberts Obamacare decision
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2012, 10:06:35 PM »
Hi Dennis.  I think people will start seeing brighter sides to this ruling as time goes by.

It's easier talking about politics than the Cubs this year, isn't it?

Offline 5412

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Re: Roberts Obamacare decision
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2012, 09:00:09 PM »
Hi Dennis.  I think people will start seeing brighter sides to this ruling as time goes by.

It's easier talking about politics than the Cubs this year, isn't it?

Hi,

Yes it sure is.  However there is an interesting point so far.  I keep track of my season tickets that I sell.  Now I set out the ones I use, and the ones I sell to Cub fans at cost.  The rest go on StubHub and I hope to recover losses for games we can't go to.  Last year, I was in the hole double what I am this year.  Even as bad as they are, so far so good.

regards,
Dennis

Offline Penrod

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Re: Roberts Obamacare decision
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2012, 02:35:19 PM »
It seems to me now that they could tax us all if we dont by a Volt lol.

Roberts should be impeached. What on earth was he thinking. He destroyed the integrity of the court not upheld it.

Offline docstew

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Re: Roberts Obamacare decision
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2012, 07:34:48 AM »
It seems to me now that they could tax us all if we dont by a Volt lol.

Roberts should be impeached. What on earth was he thinking. He destroyed the integrity of the court not upheld it.

And what crime are you accusing the Cheif Justice of? Or is it just the crime of disagreeing with you?

I dislike the decision too, but we don't advocate firing people for disagreements or mistakes (the Obamacare decision was both).

Offline Willow

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Re: Roberts Obamacare decision
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2012, 02:13:00 PM »
It is not just a Tax. It's 21 different new taxes. Amounting to about 695 billion dollars. Someone is going to pay those taxes and it seems that someone is the middle class.

Offline 5412

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Re: Roberts Obamacare decision
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2012, 04:03:11 PM »
It seems to me now that they could tax us all if we dont by a Volt lol.

Roberts should be impeached. What on earth was he thinking. He destroyed the integrity of the court not upheld it.

Hi,

If Roberts should be impeached, then so should the other four that voted with him.

regards,
5412

Offline Bad Dog

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Re: Roberts Obamacare decision
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2012, 04:09:37 PM »
Hi,

If Roberts should be impeached, then so should the other four that voted with him.

regards,
5412

I think you have to have committed some sort of a crime to be impeached and please don't spout treason either.