Author Topic: primitives discuss giving presents to little kids  (Read 1484 times)

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Offline franksolich

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primitives discuss giving presents to little kids
« on: June 10, 2012, 11:33:45 AM »
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002788428

Oh my.

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Liberal_in_LA (24,016 posts)

A man keeps giving small presents to my 5-year-old daughter, and it's freaking me out.

This letter caught me eye following the story last week about the bookstore that wouldn't allow single males to be in the children's section. what do you parents think about this? Maybe the man is being grandfatherly. What if the gift giver was a woman? Or do you find this just as creepy as the mother? Prudence gives the letter writer a different take in her response. read it at the link

Dear Prudence,

I have wonderful parents who often watch my 5-year-old and 2-year-old daughters. My parents live at the beach and have taken the kids for overnights, and even for a week. They have become close friends with a nearby couple their age, who also have grown children and a grandson.

The problem is that my husband and I are totally creeped out by the man. My oldest daughter has come home from trips to my parents’ house with a "present" from this man: a seashell, a feather, a rock. Once when I was dropping my girls off, I stayed awhile and “Fred” and “Wilma” stopped by and brought a present. It was a sand dollar in a box elaborately decorated with fancy ribbon.

I had a pit in my stomach the whole way home and I realized what bothered me about Fred’s gestures. They seem innocuous but are too adult in their presentation; he only brings gifts when my husband and I aren't scheduled to be there; and he singles out my older daughter and doesn’t bring presents for my younger one.

It feels like he is grooming her to trust him, and my mommy-warning sirens are screaming. I have no proof or even a suspicion of impropriety on this man's part, but the girls are set to stay with my parents for a long weekend and we want to be certain that my folks won't be socializing with Fred and Wilma. We don’t want to insult their friendship, but how do we explain that their friends are creepy and we don't want them near our kids?

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/dear_prudence/2012/06/dear_prudie_a_man_keeps_giving_gifts_to_my_young_daughter_should_i_be_worried_.html?google_editors

It's a big blazing campfire, unusual in that it contradicts the usual primitive stance about children, both born and unborn.

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sarisataka (394 posts)

1. Your child is your #1 priority everything else is secondary.

You don't have to make accusations but can bring up your concerns. Get guarantees that the children will be supervised at all times and that though you consider the 'gifts' to be thoughtful, you are just not comfortable with them.

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Number23 (12,137 posts)

69. I agree with everything you've said

That child is the parent's number ONE priority. Talking to the mom's parents about their friends may lead to some potentially hurt feelings, but I think the mother of that child would rather hurt the neighbor's feelings than have anyone do anything to hurt her child.

As you said, if they can get guarantees that the children will never be left alone in the neighbor's presence then it's win-win. If they can't, then see you later "Fred."

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SoutherDem (1,029 posts)

2. Sadly today one never knows.

When I was a kid it was simply someone being nice to the child. The reason he give a gift to the 5 year old and not 2 years old is simply the fact the 5 year old most likely responds to the gifts while the other doesn't.

Today, however who knows.

I guess I can't buy gifts for my nieces at that bookstore.
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ohheckyeah (4,350 posts)

8. I think the reason the gifts are only given to the 5 year old is that they aren't safe gifts for a 2 year old. Notice the gifts are mostly things one can pick up free. Since 2 years olds tend to put everything in their mouth you don't give them rocks, feathers or a sand dollar. As for the way they are wrapped it probably is Wilma doing the wrapping - my husband, father and brother couldn't wrap a box elaborately if their lives depended on it.

Having said that - if the mother is that concerned she should ask her parents to make sure not to leave the girls alone with anyone else.

I don't know the age of Fred and Wilma or the mother but I think a lot of older people enjoy doing things for little kids without having sinister motives. My mom gives neighborhood kids cookies but she isn't luring them in....she's just a nice woman who loves kids and misses having little one's around to do for. All of her grand kids are grown and the great grand kids live too far away.
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enlightenment (5,294 posts)

29. A rock, a feather, a shell.

Not precisely the crown jewels.

I think it's a damned shame that we've reached such a state in this world that everyone is suspect.

There is no 'right way' to behave these days; really. We are not allowed to interact in any way with children unless we have received explicit instruction from the parents. If I were male, I'd be afraid to so much as smile at a child for fear that it would be misconstrued as unhealthy interest. As a middle-aged woman (with a grown child, so before anyone launches the 'you don't have children' rationale - yes, I've been there), I once attempted to hand a child a crayon they had dropped in a restaurant - the mother snatched the thing out of my hand like I was trying to give the kid a live grenade. Ridiculous.

I'm sorry, but there is a whole lot of over-reaction going on. Yes, the world is a scary place and we need to teach our kids to be smart - but Prudence got it right. If the woman has issues with the friends, why not talk to her parents? Maybe (shock) even get to know the couple?

Adult behavior suggests that the mother (and her husband, I presume) should simply explain that giving the child gifts in this way makes them uncomfortable and they would prefer that the couple stopped doing it. Instead, she has written a public letter that tries and convicts the couple without any evidence - and that letter has become sufficient proof for a handful in this thread to do the same.

This is witch-burning behavior at its finest, really. Who needs proof? All you need is a 'gut instinct' or a 'feeling' in order to convict not just a man, but his wife ("their friends are creepy and we don't want them near our kids") based on nothing. No proof, not even a suspicion.

A sad world, indeed.
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eek MD (295 posts)

84. This thread just shows how badly we've stereotyped men in this society....

Were this an elderly woman giving a child a token gift, there wouldn't even be the slightest worry. Yet a man does the same thing and suddenly we've already judged that he's grooming the kid for molestation.

This story reminds me of my elderly neighbor who used to always bring us Coke (Cola, not drugs) when we were kids running around outside in the summertime (Back in the 80's). And before y'all start going on about statistics (which I know already will be the response to this), most abuse happens from members of one's own family. Perhaps the person in question should be just as wary of the people caring for her kids (who are in private places alone with the kids), as they are about a person who sees the kid only in public places.

Parents need to do a little less stereotyping of strangers, and a little more education to their kids about what they should do to keep safe.

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4th law of robotics (1,066 posts)

110. If this person were a woman it would be a story about the nice woman who always has such wonderful gifts for the kids!

We get it, every male past puberty is a rapist/molester/pervert in some way or another. This is why you get stories of lost kids wondering down the street with plenty of witnesses but no one wants to intervene for fear of being labeled a pedophile.
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tjwash (7,665 posts)

103. holy shit...one paragraph off a little known advice column and a mob jury gets formed

This thread has already formed a lynch mob and tossed the rope over the tree branch.

Love Internet message boards
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MineralMan (44,358 posts)

106. Well, this could be a cause for concern or just some nice old folks.

The real answer is for the parents to get to know these people, through their own parents' acquaintance with them.

Talk with them. Find out what's going on and ask about those gifts they've been giving. Ask them why they're doing that. Be frank. If there's a reluctance to get to know you, or your questions don't produce acceptable answers, then keep the kids away and tell those people that they aren't allowed to see them or give them gifts like those.

I used to sell mineral specimens to collectors on the Internet. Since my wife and I rented an office suite for that and our other businesses, I converted one room of the suite into a mineral museum, complete with extensive display cases and even a self-guided audio tour so I didn't always have to quit other things when visitors showed up. It was fun, and I had hundreds of people, including whole school classes come there.

No child ever left that showroom/museum without being given a mineral specimen, complete with a label that explained what it was, where it came from, and other information. I bought material for those gifts specifically for that use. A few of the kids got interested in minerals and sometimes came to the offices and museum on their own. Others came with their parents. It was a great pleasure to introduce those children to something I found fascinating.

I don't have any children of my own, but like interacting with kids and trying to teach something when I do. Lots of people feel the same way, and enjoy seeing and talking with children. They're not dangerous people, or any risk to the safety of anyone. They just like kids.

When I was a child, there were adults not related to me who liked kids. I learned a lot from those friendly people. A few were important influences on my life, and I knew them for many years. None represented any risk to me, but my parents always took the time to get to know them. Some were neighbors. Some were people with interesting hobbies. Others were business owners who didn't mind the incessant questions kids have. All were terrific people, and my life would have been lessened had they not been in my childhood.

Knowledge is the key. Know people, and you won't be afraid of them. Know people, and you'll spot the ones who are potentially dangerous. But don't isolate your children from adults. Just get to know the adults and make informed decisions about them. Panic without knowledge is not a good thing.

franksolich, a single middle-aged male, was not the brightest kid around when a little lad, and to this day follows a rule his parents imposed about him; franksolich is always giving things to children, but only in the presence of their parents, and only after saying "I have something for you, but ask your parents first," and then after it's presented, reminding the child, "now, never take something from someone you don't know, unless your parents are with you."

Common sense.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline obumazombie

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Re: primitives discuss giving presents to little kids
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2012, 11:36:38 AM »
^It's quite uncommon, so is common courtesy.
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Offline Evil_Conservative

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Re: primitives discuss giving presents to little kids
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2012, 11:42:07 AM »
I wouldn't be too concerned.  Maybe he has a grandchild (or two) that live farther away and he doesn't see them much, so he gives little "gifts" to the child?  It's a seashell that anyone could go and get.  My daughter received a giant stuffed shark from one of the mechanics where my husband works.  A customer had left it behind and so he took it and gave it to my husband to give to our daughter.  That shark probably needed its own plane ticket, so that's probably why the family left it behind.  This mechanic has met our daughter a few times.  He lives right around the corner from us, so we do run into him at Walmart occasionally. 

A cashier at one of the grocery stores we shop at frequently has "gifts" to give to the children.  My daughter got a bag of chocolate eggs for Easter and a few weeks ago, he gave her a bag of M&M's.  It doesn't concern me.  He's a nice guy and all the regulars love going to his line.  His line is always the longest.  I've seen someone refuse to leave his line for a line that just opened up.  He's the nicest cashier at any store I have ever been to.

I think the OP is a being paranoid.
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Offline franksolich

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Re: primitives discuss giving presents to little kids
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2012, 12:40:06 PM »
^It's quite uncommon, so is common courtesy.

I don't remember much about it, but when the family lived alongside the Platte River, years before we moved up into the Sandhills, about three or four times a year, these strange men would come to our house, and stay with us for a few days.  If I'd been any older and more knowledgeable, I would've considered them sinister Italianate-looking thugs; but I was aware they were good friends of the parents, and that they'd come to hunt and fish.

They always had presents for me, things one doesn't usually give a small child.  They also brought along a few "token" things for the younger brother, more appropriate for our ages.

Unbeknownst to me, they were M.D.s and psychologists from Lincoln and Omaha--and a couple from the Omaha School for the Deaf--and while of course they were out there to hunt and fish, they had another important reason to visit.

My parents were raising me in defiance of all the then-conventional wisdom about the upbringing of deaf children, and they were intensely curious about how it was all coming out.  They did seem to pay more attention to me than I thought was necessary, but had the good graces to go on to something else whenever I got irritated about it.

These are only vague memories, but I do recall raising a ruckus three or four times when they expressed the wish to take me to the soda fountain at the drug store three blocks downtown, alone with them.  No way.  To get me to go, they had to invite my younger brother too.  I wasn't going anywhere with strangers unless it was with someone who knew what was going on.  (I was about four at the time, my younger brother, two.)

At about the same time, I'd made the acquaintance of a very old man who seemed to shave only once a week; he was a widower and lived way out in the country.  Originally from a wealthy family, he'd drunk away most of the farm.  He was touched in the head; he raised a few pigs, and imagined that they enjoyed rides through the verdant countryside in the bed of his pick-up truck.

He'd load them up--I dunno if they protested or not--and drive his battered, rusted, old truck to our place, asking me if I'd like to come along.  It was always okay with the parents, and if the parents weren't around, well, the older siblings were glad to be relieved of half their baby-sitting chores.....

There was probably a story in him, and he probably told it to me as we rode through the country, sometimes up into the lower reaches of the Sandhills to the north, but of course I never heard it; I only sensed that he talked a lot while he was driving.  (Undoubtedly, my parents, because they were who they were, knew his story, but as with the secrets of everyone else entrusted to them, they never passed it on.)

One night, when I was six years old, he went home, sauced, and decided to make some dinner.  The pilot light in his natural-gas stove had gone out, and in his drunkeness, he tried to get it going.

The biggest piece of him that was ever found was his left leg, dangling from a faraway tree as if a stocking on the fireplace mantel at Christmas.  It was very sad, this first funeral (a closed casket) I ever attended. 
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline GOBUCKS

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Re: primitives discuss giving presents to little kids
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2012, 12:45:53 PM »
Now that's more like it! A leg dangling from a tree! Galveston!

Offline franksolich

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Re: primitives discuss giving presents to little kids
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2012, 12:48:20 PM »
Now that's more like it! A leg dangling from a tree! Galveston!

That's probably where the lonestarnut primitive--or whichever primitive it was--got the idea, from reading franksolich, although in this case it really happened (I however was not exposed to the facts at the time).
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline obumazombie

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Re: primitives discuss giving presents to little kids
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2012, 03:31:13 PM »
Now that's more like it! A leg dangling from a tree! Galveston!
Too bad something less catastrophic doesn't happen to Pedro.
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Offline franksolich

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Re: primitives discuss giving presents to little kids
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2012, 03:34:15 PM »
Too bad something less catastrophic doesn't happen to Pedro.

Actually, that's an old story of mine; I'm sure it was posted (freerepublic?) on the internet more than ten years ago, and I've used that line several times since.

I wasn't there to see it; that was just the way an older brother later explained it to me.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline MrsSmith

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Re: primitives discuss giving presents to little kids
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2012, 03:35:46 PM »
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4th law of robotics (1,066 posts)

110. If this person were a woman it would be a story about the nice woman who always has such wonderful gifts for the kids!

We get it, every male past puberty is a rapist/molester/pervert in some way or another. This is why you get stories of lost kids wondering down the street with plenty of witnesses but no one wants to intervene for fear of being labeled a pedophile.

When I helped with a Sunday school class, part of our training was "don't give hugs unless another teacher is there," and "try not to take just one child to the bathroom."   :(  It's certainly not just men, though men get it worse.  

I once watched a kid wreck her bike in front of a day care...there were three other parents picking up kids at the same time, and we all just froze.   I know everyone thought just what I did, what if she goes home and tells her folks about "the stranger that picked up my bike."  Thankfully, at that moment, another child came around the corner, so I felt OK with taking the bike off her and helping her up, then telling the other child to be sure and get her home OK.  The other parents were all male, and VERY obviously relieved that I had stepped forward...even though they all had their own children in tow.  It's sad, really sad.   :(

I know of one foster dad that was accused of child molestation.  He immediately lost his job, lost his foster kids, and nearly lost his stepchild.  It was a nasty, horrid time for him...deserved if he had done it, but a few months later the accuser recanted her story and told her social worker that it had been her stepfather, but she was too afraid of him to tell the truth at first.  The guy got his job back, but I'm not sure how long he stayed.  Many people still treated him as though he were guilty.   :(
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Offline vesta111

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Re: primitives discuss giving presents to little kids
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2012, 05:45:36 PM »
When I helped with a Sunday school class, part of our training was "don't give hugs unless another teacher is there," and "try not to take just one child to the bathroom."   :(  It's certainly not just men, though men get it worse.  

I once watched a kid wreck her bike in front of a day care...there were three other parents picking up kids at the same time, and we all just froze.   I know everyone thought just what I did, what if she goes home and tells her folks about "the stranger that picked up my bike."  Thankfully, at that moment, another child came around the corner, so I felt OK with taking the bike off her and helping her up, then telling the other child to be sure and get her home OK.  The other parents were all male, and VERY obviously relieved that I had stepped forward...even though they all had their own children in tow.  It's sad, really sad.   :(

I know of one foster dad that was accused of child molestation.  He immediately lost his job, lost his foster kids, and nearly lost his stepchild.  It was a nasty, horrid time for him...deserved if he had done it, but a few months later the accuser recanted her story and told her social worker that it had been her stepfather, but she was too afraid of him to tell the truth at first.  The guy got his job back, but I'm not sure how long he stayed.  Many people still treated him as though he were guilty.   :(

This is horrid all these story's.

Things go wrong for kids that do not understand life. Closet's I ever got to my knowledge was my Mother that to my distress at the age of 4-5 decided I was too old to sit in any males lap, DAD, grandpa, any uncle.

One uncle would come in pick me up and swing me about ,I really loved to see him until Mom put an end to that.

Mom has never been a hugger freely person, and my grandmas were to a point.  Contact was in bathing and dressing.    Grandpa's would talk to me and take me places but there was no physical contact. No holding hands or snuggling up to them as they watched TV.     Spaces had to be kept apart.

Strange world for an only child, love from all but no actual physical contact.   Love from all care and support but no physical bonding even with MOM.  it has only been in the last 10 years that she finally got around on to tell me on the phone " I love you"    her mind set up to that time was she should not have to say the words, I should have known from her actions.------

Actions speak louder then words was her way of life until the last few years.  First time she told me she loved me I fell on the floor, I was 45 years old.

Back on subject, I had a friend who steered me to a hair dresser a male that was willing to DO ME for half price.  a charming man and really knew his craft.   

One night after a few brews she told me the male was gay and would groom the young sons of his customers sometimes for years to get their and their mothers trust.   -----Oh shit this man had taken my 5 year old son out for ice cream  the other week as I waited for his stylest to do me.   

Scared me and I went for another 2 years with no do.

Never know guys, all ways wonder why family, friends or strangers signal out a child for presents.  For someone to present say a rock or a feather or a sea shell in hand to a child in hand, no problem.    When gifts are given to just to one child in the family ignoring the others and they are wrapped in special boxes, you may want to raise an eye brow.

Hard world out there, when children come into it sometimes it is impossible to protect them, one cannot be with them 24/7, keep them in a box or away from family, friends or strangers that that may take advantage of them.

But on the other hand to raise children who have only physical upkeep as in bathing and clothing is to put these kids into the hands of monsters that will seek them out, find them and destroy them .

  I lucked out but for those that didn't   there are broken lives and heart ache ever where one looks. 







 

Offline Karin

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Re: primitives discuss giving presents to little kids
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2012, 10:03:02 AM »
MineralMan's loooong story reminded me of: