Fire on nuclear-powered submarine at Maine shipyard injures 6

[txradioguy]

KITTERY, Maine –  A fire on a nuclear-powered submarine at a Maine shipyard has injured six people, including a firefighter.

Fire crews responded Wednesday to the USS Miami SSN 755 at the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard on an island in Kittery, a town near Portsmouth, N.H., popular with tourists.

The shipyard says the injured people have been treated and released. The firefighter suffered heat exhaustion.

The fire still was not out shortly before midnight but shipyard spokesman Capt. Bryant Fuller says the situation is improving.

Shipyard public affairs specialist Gary Hildreth says the fire started in the forward compartment of the sub. The shipyard says the sub's reactor wasn't operating at the time and was unaffected.

The cause of the fire hasn't been identified.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/23/fire-on-nuke-powered-sub-at-maine-shipyard-hurts-4/?vgnextrefresh=1?test=latestnews

[NHSparky]

Biggest reason why I despised shipyard.

Some idiot was probably supposed to have a fire watch and didn't post one.  Memo to shipyard dicks--heat can go through bulkheads, which is why you have fire watches on BOTH SIDES of a bulkhead you're welding/grinding on.

[zeitgeist]

Biggest reason why I despised shipyard.

Some idiot was probably supposed to have a fire watch and didn't post one.  Memo to shipyard dicks--heat can go through bulkheads, which is why you have fire watches on BOTH SIDES of a bulkhead you're welding/grinding on.

Care to speculate on exactly who is responsible for maintaining ship conditions?  Also, who mans the top side watch? 

Now how did Hymie put that thing about Responsibility?

Admiral Hyman Rickover on Responsibility  

"Responsibility is a unique concept. It can only reside and inhere in a single individual. You may share it with others, but your portion is not diminished. You may delegate it, but it is still with you. You may disclaim it, but you cannot divest yourself of it. Even if you do not recognize it or admit its presence, you cannot escape it. If responsibility is rightfully yours, no evasion or ignorance or passing the blame can pass the burden to someone else. Unless you can point your finger at the man responsible when something goes wrong, then you have never had anyone really responsible."

It is possible the firewatch was not on their toes.  It is also possible there were combustible materials in the area that should not have been where they were (aka trade litter).  Question is, who is responsible for ship safety in dock?  I am going to file this under shit happens and much ado about nothing until more is known.   

I mean it is not like they sunk a boat in dry dock for Pete sake {cough, Mare Island, cough). 

[NHSparky]

Care to speculate on exactly who is responsible for maintaining ship conditions?  Also, who mans the top side watch? 

The shop doing the work is responsible for providing adequate oversight (firewatch) and for maintaining the space in a safe manner.  The crew is there to run the boat and the equipment, not play janitor.

I say that as a former submariner who has spent time in a shipyard (PHNSY 1991) and who has been on TWO boat fires--both caused by welding/grinding by shipyard folks who weren't doing their jobs and allowed lagging or other debris to catch on fire.

[vesta111]

Care to speculate on exactly who is responsible for maintaining ship conditions?  Also, who mans the top side watch? 

Now how did Hymie put that thing about Responsibility?



It is possible the firewatch was not on their toes.  It is also possible there were combustible materials in the area that should not have been where they were (aka trade litter).  Question is, who is responsible for ship safety in dock?  I am going to file this under shit happens and much ado about nothing until more is known.   

I mean it is not like they sunk a boat in dry dock for Pete sake {cough, Mare Island, cough). 

They did WHAT at Mare Island ?????  Since it has been 30 years since I lived on base there this is all new to me.

The police did, from what I am told, have a problem with everyone trying to get to Pierce Island to watch the fire.  [ Slow Poke old town, don't get much excitement and to watch a Submarine on fire at such a close distance was a head turner ]    

Other side of the river, Kittery, had the best views as people were climbing on their roofs to get a good view.  Poor police they all deserve a raise for having this dumped in their lap.

As far as I know it is all on the head of the Base Commander, HIS base every darn thing that happends on the Base is his responsibility.    When the boat docked for refit he took charge of the boats safety out of the hands of the ships Captain.   I do not know much about the Law Of The Sea but when a vessel is on dry land all kinds of responsibilities are turned over to others.  

I hope the Skipper and crew are not held responsible for this -----But then the Shipyard workers do have a Union [ worthless ] a no strike clause.    

Interesting how many early retirements will come from this by the civilian sector of workers. Perhaps a couple heart attacks for the bosses with in 2 years of full retirement.  

BTW this could not have come at a better time for the Ship Yard as grumbles are going around as they do every 10-15 years of a possible Base closing in the near future.  Have to keep it open now to repair damage to the boat and forfill commitments made for future overhauls.  [ Just Saying ]  
 

[wasp69]

Biggest reason why I despised shipyard.

Some idiot was probably supposed to have a fire watch and didn't post one.  Memo to shipyard dicks--heat can go through bulkheads, which is why you have fire watches on BOTH SIDES of a bulkhead you're welding/grinding on.

*ding-ding-ding*

Sparky, I could not H5 you enough for that one.  Too many damned times I have personally had to put the brakes on hot work because the yard-birds and their crackhead fire watches did not do enough to safely grind or weld.  Too many availabilities to count, too many times we got lucky because we caught the fuggin' idiots before they burned the boat to the waterline.

For the record, I can tell you that after normal working hours the Sailors on duty can only be in so many places at one time.  Topside watches cannot supervise welders inside the skin of the ship.  By the time a topside watch notices smoke, it is already too late.

[NHSparky]

Amen--consider that even in 3 or 4-section duty, most of the duty section is probably on the barge training or doing other stuff after 1600, with only a few watch standers in/on the boat (MAYBE 5 or 6, including topside.)  The fire started about 1730, so unless there was testing going on (possible, but more likely they were doing dinner on the barge) there would only be duty section folks on board.

Word has it the fire started in the Torpedo Room and spread to the hull insulation, which is why it took so long to put it out.  That stuff burns HOT, smoulders, and puts out some nasty-assed DARK smoke.  Watchstanders in Maneuvering were in Scott Air-Paks.  The Navigator was one of the guys injured when he fell down a hatch (there are a few besides the normal ladders.)

Personal experience--when I was on the Holland, the NSF (Nuclear Support Facility) was immediately forward of one of the Engine Room spaces.  One night as I was RCSS (Radcon Shift Supervisor) I noted paint smouldering and bubbling on the bulkhead between the NSF and ER.  I literally hammered on the wall and yelled at them to stop and directed the NSF Watch to get a fire extinguisher.  The dipshit doing the welding 1--wasn't supposed to be doing that, considering any changes to nuclear facilities or spaces adjacent to them takes NAVSEA 08 approval, 2--figured that a fire watch wasn't necessary because it was on "his" side of the bulkhead, 3--couldn't find a radworker qualified guy to be a firewatch anyway.

Needless to say, after the Ship's Duty Officer and I got through with him, and the Radcon Officer got through with him, then the Repair Officer got through with him, he had about 1/10 ounce of ass left.

[wasp69]

Personal experience--when I was on the Holland, the NSF (Nuclear Support Facility) was immediately forward of one of the Engine Room spaces.  One night as I was RCSS (Radcon Shift Supervisor) I noted paint smouldering and bubbling on the bulkhead between the NSF and ER.  I literally hammered on the wall and yelled at them to stop and directed the NSF Watch to get a fire extinguisher.  The dipshit doing the welding 1--wasn't supposed to be doing that, considering any changes to nuclear facilities or spaces adjacent to them takes NAVSEA 08 approval, 2--figured that a fire watch wasn't necessary because it was on "his" side of the bulkhead, 3--couldn't find a radworker qualified guy to be a firewatch anyway.

Needless to say, after the Ship's Duty Officer and I got through with him, and the Radcon Officer got through with him, then the Repair Officer got through with him, he had about 1/10 ounce of ass left.

Frikkin' moron!  Where were you at the time, Metro Machine?  That sounds like something those idiots would do.

[NHSparky]

I mean it is not like they sunk a boat in dry dock for Pete sake {cough, Mare Island, cough). 

The Guitarro was a combination of several issues--competing tests, the SDO (Ship's Duty Officer) and STE's (Shipyard Test Engineers) not talking to each other, and fouled hatches.

Personally, I'd rather sink a boat next to the pier than burn one up in the drydock.  Both suck, but the former sucks slightly less.

[NHSparky]

Frikkin' moron!  Where were you at the time, Metro Machine?  That sounds like something those idiots would do.

Stationed in Guam.  The welder was from R-2 (ship guy.)

[CG6468]

I mean it is not like they sunk a boat in dry dock for Pete sake {cough, Mare Island, cough). 

USCG, too. {cough,cough}

(Snip)
She became known as the Coast Guard submarine after an incident that occurred while she was undergoing repairs while in drydock 14 March 1963, when a disgruntled crewman opened the drydock's seacocks, sinking both the drydock and the Tamaroa.  A history written by a former crewman of Tamaroa noted:

"In [March], 1963, in the dark of a winter night, Tamaroa slipped below the waters of New York Harbor when a drunk and disorderly crew member opened the port side valves of Tam's dry dock.  Tam was listing 10 degrees to port when the OD sounded the alarm.  James Perkins, a crew member at the time, wrote later, 'Pause for a second, if you will, and take note of the fact that the Tam is in port, out of the water, and some idiot sounds the alarm to abandon ship at midnight.'  It's December 22, colder than a well digger's belt buckle outside, the keel is above water and (someone) wants me to go outside?  The seriousness of the situation was spreading, the crew sensed something was wrong and, finally, abandoned ship.  Some had blankets, some were in their skivvies, some were barefoot.  The temperature was 20 degrees and the wind was howling.  The Tam listed further to port, things started to creak and groan in the dark.  Nobody knew the cause.  In the midst of all that confusion, everyone had forgotten that the captain was on board that night.  The Tam is about to fall over and he's still asleep in his cabin!  One of the crew, who was showering when the alarm sounded, ran back up the ladder clad in a towel and roused the captain from a solid sleep.  They flew down the ladder, getting away from what was an apparent disaster about to happen.  Upon reaching land, the whole flippin' mess went over.  The Tam had every sea cock cut out of her, the stern tube packing was out [and] she went down like a lead sinker.  It took nine months and $3.2 million to rebuild Tamaroa."

USCGC TAMAROA

[wasp69]

Stationed in Guam.  The welder was from R-2 (ship guy.)

I hope his Chief took a dogging wrench to his ass.

[zeitgeist]

The Guitarro was a combination of several issues--competing tests, the SDO (Ship's Duty Officer) and STE's (Shipyard Test Engineers) not talking to each other, and fouled hatches.

Personally, I'd rather sink a boat next to the pier than burn one up in the drydock.  Both suck, but the former sucks slightly less.

Well neither is the optimum outcome of the overhaul process.  Fortunately there was no loss of life ( this time ).  I just happened to be in Puget when the welder / burner  played flaming marshmallow. The firewatch couldn't work the extinguisher in time to put him out among other things that went wrong.  That little deal brought the whole firewatch situation to all stop back then.  I suspect this will stand down hot work for several days as well. 

Boat fires are never good.  Neither are electrocutions or confined space deaths.  It is dangerous work overhauling a boat.  Lots of things can lay you low if you are no on your game.  Everyone bitches about all the training for things like lockout / tagout, confined space, and firewatch, but it is just a cost of doing business.  Even the best trained make mistakes.  I am sure there are people sitting in the canary room as we speak.     

[obumazombie]

After attending shipboard, and flight deck firefighting schools, I concluded I would be better off not having to fight a real one.

[zeitgeist]

Latest article from local rag:

http://www.seacoastonline.com/articles/20120524-NEWS-120529829

They allow ten free looks a month I think but don't know because I actually subscribe.  Their wrappers make great poop bags.

[T-Monay820]

After attending shipboard, and flight deck firefighting schools, I concluded I would be better off not having to fight a real one.

That's pretty much what I learned: if I ball one up on the flight deck, and I'm relying on my fellow aviators to come save me from my burning wreckage, I'm pretty much done.

On a side note, I had an interesting discussion with a shoe about her firefighting response based on a question from her SWO board. They asked her what she would do if there was a flight deck fire on her small boy while she was OOD, and her response was to throw a hard turn to try and roll the bird off the flight deck. Led to a very morbid discussion.

[seahorse513]

When I was listening to the news this morning on my way to work, the guy they were interviewing said it was still under investigation, that was 8:30 am est.
the only time I was in a submarine was when the HMS Orion was docked in Portsmouth, NH. That was (1990??).  I am not sure what the measurement difference is, but I do remember it being very narrow.
As I reflected this morning, it must be hard to put out a fire in a narrow area.
I am glad there were no fatalities, and a speedy recovery to those who were injured...

[zeitgeist]

When I was listening to the news this morning on my way to work, the guy they were interviewing said it was still under investigation, that was 8:30 am est.
the only time I was in a submarine was when the HMS Orion was docked in Portsmouth, NH. That was (1990??).  I am not sure what the measurement difference is, but I do remember it being very narrow.
As I reflected this morning, it must be hard to put out a fire in a narrow area.
I am glad there were no fatalities, and a speedy recovery to those who were injured...

Overhauling a nuclear submarine is a lot like rebuilding an engine through the tailpipe.  And to make things even more fun the stuff which comes out last has to go back in first (abreviated CF).  Add to that the unexpected surprises one finds from repairs made underway or at certain mid-pacific service stations (never documented anywhere) and you can be in for a whole bunch of surprises not caught by the survey teams. 

Firefighting on a sub?  Yikes probably the worst environment you could ever find.  One way in, dark, darn hard to ventilate, toxic fumes are a given.   


BTW O_zombie, I was the guy at the Lakes who asked the Chief if he could demonstrate the goose neck tecnique for fighting an oil fire one more time.  Since I was the lead guy on the hose  I  figured it would be a prudent move not to have a bunch of burning oil flash back on me.  His comment was something like "College kid, huh."   

[NHSparky]

Firefighting on a sub?  Yikes probably the worst environment you could ever find.  One way in, dark, darn hard to ventilate, toxic fumes are a given.

   

The trainer is bad enough.  And NO, you can't see shit.  Now stick yourself in a REAL fire, where the compartment is several hundred degrees (yes, that hot.)  OBA or Scott Air Pack not giving your face a good seal?  Mommy and daddy (or wifey) is gonna get a nice check.

Think of the Worcester Cold Storage fire back in the late 90's, but like zeit said, one way in, one way out, and a whole lotta ways to get lost or ****ed up.

I'd rather be a grunt in a firefight than fighting a fire on a boat.

[obumazombie]

Overhauling a nuclear submarine is a lot like rebuilding an engine through the tailpipe.  And to make things even more fun the stuff which comes out last has to go back in first (abreviated CF).  Add to that the unexpected surprises one finds from repairs made underway or at certain mid-pacific service stations (never documented anywhere) and you can be in for a whole bunch of surprises not caught by the survey teams. 

Firefighting on a sub?  Yikes probably the worst environment you could ever find.  One way in, dark, darn hard to ventilate, toxic fumes are a given.   


BTW O_zombie, I was the guy at the Lakes who asked the Chief if he could demonstrate the goose neck tecnique for fighting an oil fire one more time.  Since I was the lead guy on the hose  I  figured it would be a prudent move not to have a bunch of burning oil flash back on me.  His comment was something like "College kid, huh."   

Reminds me of a shipdeck firefighting school war story. We were doing hose team drills preparing for the lightoff of the fire pit that would send a column of flame 300 feet into the air. We were drilled to run in groups to each hose section, connect them to each other, to the nozzle, and to the hydrant, then charge the hose. After an afternoon of drills, where I was jostled away from the nozzle, which everyone wanted to play with once the hose was charged, they lit the pit. This time when our instructors sounded the fire alarm, I noticed the crowd on my hose team was jostling away from the nozzle, and I was getting jostled towards it. Once we arrived at the hose, and I looked around quickly, I was the nozzleman, first to enter the pit with 300 feet of fire erupting. It was funny in retrospect.

[wasp69]

I'd rather be a grunt in a firefight than fighting a fire on a boat.

And that, children, is a bona fide no shitter.

[zeitgeist]

New info available here:

http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=67636


 Looks like it was a vacuum cleaner that set it off.   

[thundley4]

New info available here:

http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=67636


 Looks like it was a vacuum cleaner that set it off.   

We had a clothes drier on our boat that almost required it's own fire watch.

[zeitgeist]

I find it interesting that it was a vac.  I thought SY vac's were designed not to do that, like maybe even air operated?

 

[thundley4]

I find it interesting that it was a vac.  I thought SY vac's were designed not to do that, like maybe even air operated?

 

We had a couple of wet/dry shop vacs.