Author Topic: Debtors prison- A DUmmies Tale of Woe  (Read 5763 times)

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Offline Tucker

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Debtors prison- A DUmmies Tale of Woe
« on: May 07, 2012, 06:41:02 PM »
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002656246

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The Doctor. (16,442 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

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I May be Going to Debtor's Prison

From Daily Kos:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/05/07/1089502/-I-May-be-Going-to-Debtor-s-Prison

[I know they're supposed to be illegal, but society has found some ways around that. The bottom line here is that I may be going to prison not because I've done anything wrong or deliberately committed a crime, but because I've been poor and very, very unlucky... and I know I'm not the only one. I know what kind of scrutiny and harassment writing this may invite, but there is a terrible meme in the nation right now that must be dissected and expunged if we are to move more toward being a more fair and civilized society.

That meme is that 'poverty is a choice'.

After I explain, I know how easy it will be to tell me I 'could have made better choices'. Believe me, I know that. But the choices I made at the time were reasonable choices. Many people have made many of the same choices I have made and managed to do well by them. So the choices I made were reasonable, but things just didn't work out. In retrospect, I could have done things differently of course, but I did not have the luxury of foresight at the time.

<...>

My misfortune created gaps in payments and the debt accrued. The last blow, however, was by far the most heartbreaking and among so many other unfortunate coincidences, it bore the worst possible timing.

<...>

I can hardly describe the angst, agony, and sickness I feel at being told that I've chosen to live in poverty. So many people put barely half the effort into finding gainful work that I have and are doing just fine. There's no way to describe how awful this feels. Yet, in this country, we are afflicted with that poisonous meme that tells us people are poor because they somehow deserve it, and that the rich deserve to be richer. It is not just a meme, it is a sickness that pervades and infects the minds of people who might otherwise have been kinder and more understanding of their neighbor's plights, but instead visit scorn upon those who might have so much more to offer if not for their struggle. Sure, not everyone in poverty is fighting so hard to get out, but after so many efforts prove utterly futile is it any wonder that people might just give up?]

It's actually long, but it's worth reading:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/05/07/1089502/-I-May-be-Going-to-Debtor-s-Prison

The author is effectively going to jail for being too poor to pay. Wait till you read about the circumstances.

Worth a read. Long but only a true DUmmy could have experienced that drama.

From the Koz site:

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You can do this by Vetwife, Mon May 07, 2012 at 03:38:37 PM PDT (0+ / 0-)

I wonder...

Back to the DUmp.

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The Doctor. (16,442 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
3. Thanks.

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There's a chance I may not be posting here for a while.

Hey. you're popular. I'm sure you'll have friends up the ass.

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99Forever (527 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
25. I certainly hope things get better for you...

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... though it's not much comfort, my personal financial situation is going from bad to worse and short of something radical taking place.....

...let's just say we are screwed. A lifetime of work has been drained from us, with little hope that anyone in a position to make it better (read: the government owned lock, stock and barrel by the 1%) even cares the tiniest bit.

Getting locked up for debts, is something we were taught didn't happen in America. I guess we were lied to then, also.

There's a storm on the horizon, a big nasty one.

He's not getting locked up for debt. He's getting locked for for being a dead beat.

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Lionessa (1,643 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
5. Y'know this is nothing more really than "my ex-wife and life screwed me" rant.

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He doesn't take much responsibility for his choices (sort of does but in such a lame way it's ridiculous), and spends most of his time demonizing his ex-wife who we are to take his word on that she's a evil, gold-digger (yeah, like that's not every ex-husband's bs line to not accept the fact that they had faults they were unwilling to keep in check while demanding the woman be perfect), even attacks her mother (how classic is that?), and then claims to be just like every other person whose been experiencing economic desperation. He's not. There are a lot of us who very simply lost our employment or business and simply can't find any other income, no drama, no blaming family or friends or exes, just economic hardship.

It's not worth reading, really not. I wish I had the time back. Yes, perhaps it is unfair to expect child support when one is broke, but since he presents his reasons for being broke in such a way as to be unbelievably one sided with himself as some type of troubled hero of heart and soul, makes the entire story essentially unbelievable.

He's not telling the whole story, only the sob parts, imo.

 :loser:

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Pithlet (24,868 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
6. Exactly.

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It seems as though he tried to start up a business rather than spending the effort looking for a job. That's likely what led to the possible jail time. If you've got a child support order, you can't just decide not to look for a job and try your hand at starting a business. You don't have that luxury, and the courts won't look at that kindly.

You DUmbass.

It seems you're lacking the entrepreneurial gene that many Americans had when this great nation was being formed.

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mysuzuki2 (2,000 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
11. You are of course correct.

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a male could not possibly have a legitimate complaint against a female. Women are never vindictive and never lie.

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grasswire (33,725 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
27. Recommendation: fathersandfriends.org web site and facebook page

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There is community and resources for those ensnared in the injustices of the system.

The group fathersandfriends.org is actively advocating for some sanity in the laws.

I have suffered for several years now alongside a family member who is going through a similar process. Hollywood couldn't write the script for this one. Like the story in the OP, the actions and decisions of this crazy-authoritarian ex and of the courts are crushingly NUTS and defeating, and not in the best interests of the children.

Several things every parent going through this should know about:

1. Parental alienation is now a recognized abuse of the children. It is child abuse. Parental alienation is when a parent deliberately turns children against the other parent. It is child abuse, and should be so named, and family courts should root it out and punish it.

2. States get money from the federal government for collecting child support. The family court system is a MONEY-MAKER for states.

3. If a parent signs a contract with the state to collect the child support, that parent cannot also go to family court and sue separately. That would be a breach of contract with the state.

Stay strong, all those who are caught between the poor economy and the system. Reach out. Stand with each other.

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Come to think of it, unions do create jobs. Companies have to hire two workers to do the work of one.

Offline franksolich

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Re: Debtors prison- A DUmmies Tale of Woe
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2012, 06:47:42 PM »
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Aw Judy, Judy Judy. Did you just do a Nadin just to have something to say?

Actually, probably not.

One senses the pie-and-jam primitive's watched this in her own family; if I recall correctly, there was a recent episode where a great-grandson (or something) of hers had to go all the way from Oregon to Maine on Amtrak, staying at the home of primitives in Massachusetts, while some family matter was settled involving a young child.

The pie-and-jam primitive's not even 70 years old yet, and already she's a great-great-grandmother of what appears to be a five-year-old male child.

In case one needs the mathematics done, that's five generations of 13 years each.

The hormones must get going early, in Sherlock Judy's family.
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Offline jukin

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Re: Debtors prison- A DUmmies Tale of Woe
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2012, 07:58:09 PM »
The less a DUmbass works, the more unlucky it gets.

Mix in equal parts of stupidity and laziness and you too can become one of the democrat's highly prized and admired victims.

When you are the beneficiary of someone’s kindness and generosity, it produces a sense of gratitude and community.

When you are the beneficiary of a policy that steals from someone and gives it to you in return for your vote, it produces a sense of entitlement and dependency.

Offline BEG

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Re: Debtors prison- A DUmmies Tale of Woe
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2012, 08:15:41 PM »
It pisses me off to no end when a man (or woman) says they are too poor to pay child support. Your kid still has to eat, go to the doctor/dentist, be clothed, etc. Take a ****ing job at McDonalds until something in your field comes up. It doesn't matter what your ex spends on themselves, your kid still needs to eat and have a roof over their head.   You had the kid/s, take care of them you ****ing loser.

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Re: Debtors prison- A DUmmies Tale of Woe
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2012, 08:28:36 PM »
Oh my! How could such awful things happen to a perfectly awful and angry person like The Doctor?

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Offline Delmar

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Re: Debtors prison- A DUmmies Tale of Woe
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2012, 08:41:52 PM »
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It's actually long, but it's worth reading:

No kidding, it sure is long.
The incredible amount of detail in this sob story is what convinces me that it's a big load of BS.  The truth is usually short and simple.  Liars often embellish with a lot of details thinking that it makes the story sound more believable.   
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Offline I_B_Perky

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Re: Debtors prison- A DUmmies Tale of Woe
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2012, 08:43:16 PM »
I didn't read his whole sob story. What I got out of what little I did read is he didn't pay his child support and landed, or will land, in jail.

Well boo-****ing-hoo.

Sorry dummie... actions have consequences. Sorry your parents didn't teach you that. Now you are gonna get an real education. Bubba and Tyrone are waiting for you.
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Offline A7X_foREVer

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Re: Debtors prison- A DUmmies Tale of Woe
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2012, 08:50:08 PM »
It pisses me off to no end when a man (or woman) says they are too poor to pay child support. Your kid still has to eat, go to the doctor/dentist, be clothed, etc. Take a ****ing job at McDonalds until something in your field comes up. It doesn't matter what your ex spends on themselves, your kid still needs to eat and have a roof over their head.   You had the kid/s, take care of them you ****ing loser.


That is so true kids do not ask to be born you need to support them.

Here is a tip for all of you DUmmies save a bunch in child support by investing in a box of condoms!
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Offline Tucker

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Re: Debtors prison- A DUmmies Tale of Woe
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2012, 09:07:57 PM »
I liked the fact that it was the tale of a woman who got fed up with a panty-waist liberal male and went out looking for a man.

It's the same song that's been played over and over many times at the DUmp.
Come to think of it, unions do create jobs. Companies have to hire two workers to do the work of one.

Offline BEG

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Re: Debtors prison- A DUmmies Tale of Woe
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2012, 09:17:00 PM »
Ok, I read the whole friggen thing (except when he went into the part about how the rich suck and how we should all support losers like him). He sounds A LOT like my brother-in-law (only worse). He sounds like he has ADHD.  He even mentions not being able to afford medication he needs to stay "focused".

He is a perpetual victim. He will never be successful. Reading his long list of excuses thinly disguised as a "look how victimized I am"  crap pisses me off.  People at DU and others on DailyKos are just enablers. They fill people like UGP's head full of victim mentality crap which only hurts the person more in the long run. The people who try to smack these people up side the head with reality are always piled on.  These people are truly dilusional.

Oh, I read vetwife's comment. All I'm going to say is... :whatever:

Offline BEG

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Re: Debtors prison- A DUmmies Tale of Woe
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2012, 09:29:31 PM »
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LASlibinSC
42. My ex is dumb as a hammer and crazy as a sack of bats.

Yes he was a RW hottie. And yes I picked him. Ahh love! Anyway, he couldn't hold down a job for love nor money. But he always made his CS payments. He did yard work, painted houses, hauled trash anything. Granted, he didn't start a physical 'business' have plans for books, develop inventions, or business models. He did sign up for food stamps, work fast food and flat out hustle. We fed and provided for the kids. Sounds like this is just wallowing to me. Well written though, don't ya think? I laughed, I cried.....



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Taitertots
55. Imprisoning poor people after assigning them debts they could never pay is wrong

The court should have never ordered him to pay in the first place. $7800 a year is ****ing outrageous, who has that kind of money?

To all those with moral poutrage because it is child support. When is a child EVER better off having their parent imprisoned for being unable to pay? It just makes it impossible for the children to ever receive any support.


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Response to Taitertots (Reply #55)Mon May 7, 2012, 07:34 PM
 Lionessa
60. $7800 a year is outrageous?? Do you have a clue what it costs

to raise a child, annually? An idea at all?

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #60)Mon May 7, 2012, 07:41 PM
Taitertots
62. So what, a person making $10,000 can't pay $7800

It doesn't matter what it costs to raise a child if the parent physically doesn't have the money to support themselves and pay child support.


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Response to Lionessa (Reply #60)Mon May 7, 2012, 08:00 PM
 lumberjack_jeff
68. It doesn't matter what it costs. The only thing that matters is what he can pay. n/t

Offline Tucker

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Re: Debtors prison- A DUmmies Tale of Woe
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2012, 09:44:47 PM »
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LASlibinSC
42. My ex is dumb as a hammer and crazy as a sack of bats.

Yes he was a RW hottie. And yes I picked him. Ahh love! Anyway, he couldn't hold down a job for love nor money. But he always made his CS payments. He did yard work, painted houses, hauled trash anything. Granted, he didn't start a physical 'business' have plans for books, develop inventions, or business models. He did sign up for food stamps, work fast food and flat out hustle. We fed and provided for the kids. Sounds like this is just wallowing to me. Well written though, don't ya think? I laughed, I cried.....

There's a lessen in there that liberals could learn.
Come to think of it, unions do create jobs. Companies have to hire two workers to do the work of one.

Offline sybilll

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Re: Debtors prison- A DUmmies Tale of Woe
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2012, 09:55:11 PM »
That tale of woe could have been written by my deadbeat ex-husband (sans me running off with a rich man), and on countless court appearances, the judge sympathised with his whiny tales.  I got $150/mo when he did work, so he quit working above board swiftly.  I then got zero for 6 years, 6 years.  When finally hauled back in front of the judge, he felt sorry for the deadbeat and let him make arrear payments to me at an astonishing $50 per month.  So, that whining pound of flesh can kindly Eat A Bowl Of Dicks. 

Offline Rebel

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Re: Debtors prison- A DUmmies Tale of Woe
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2012, 11:21:35 PM »
The only entity that can throw your sorry asses in jail for failure to pay is the IRS and the federal government, and you f'n DUmb chimps want to give them even more power. Idiots.
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Re: Debtors prison- A DUmmies Tale of Woe
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2012, 04:53:47 AM »
$7,800/year is $650/month.

That's about the same as a new car or a house payment.  Cheap at twice that price for a child.

I've worked a second job at Walmart, making $9.00/hr, 24 hours per week, and brought home over $800/month.

Suck it up, DUmmie.  Yes, you SHOULD have made better choices in life, then you wouldn't be "poor".

That tattoo on your neck doesn't seem like a very good idea right now, does it.   :loser:
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Debtors prison- A DUmmies Tale of Woe
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2012, 06:07:21 AM »
Life's a bitch...........and then you marry one.
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Re: Debtors prison- A DUmmies Tale of Woe
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2012, 06:20:05 AM »
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You can do this by Vetwife, Mon May 07, 2012 at 03:38:37 PM PDT (0+ / 0-)

I wondered where she had disappeared to.
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Offline AprilRazz

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Re: Debtors prison- A DUmmies Tale of Woe
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2012, 06:20:35 AM »
Sounds like she got tired of supporting his lazy butt and moved onto greener pastures.
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Offline Tucker

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Re: Debtors prison- A DUmmies Tale of Woe
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2012, 06:53:56 AM »
I wondered where she had disappeared to.

At least we know that she's still around.
Come to think of it, unions do create jobs. Companies have to hire two workers to do the work of one.

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Re: Debtors prison- A DUmmies Tale of Woe
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2012, 07:33:00 AM »
While i think this dummy probably deserves what is about to happen to him...I will say men are rarely treated fairly in a divorce and most courts really could give a shit less if you have enough income to live on. You know this going in and should probably prepare for when it finally happens. Btw for those of you who have never been through a divorce the child support your ex gets from you is only a fraction of what you will be held responsible for. That being said this clown was trying to get around paying and is now being jailed for it as he should. If you find that the child support award is too much you can go before the judge again to get it reduced...maybe....
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Offline Karin

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Re: Debtors prison- A DUmmies Tale of Woe
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2012, 07:43:25 AM »
There are some problems with the system (at least here).  The court will calculate the CS based on your tax return from last year.  Never mind what's going on now.  If you were hourly and had a ton of overtime, due to extraordinary circumstances, and don't have it now, too bad.  I've seen this situation.  Guy ended up with a $65 paycheck to last him 2 weeks; lost the truck due to repo, then lost the job due to no transportation.  No money for kids.  Bankruptcy filings all around, it's a terrible mess.

Offline BEG

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Re: Debtors prison- A DUmmies Tale of Woe
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2012, 08:03:28 AM »
There are some problems with the system (at least here).  The court will calculate the CS based on your tax return from last year.  Never mind what's going on now.  If you were hourly and had a ton of overtime, due to extraordinary circumstances, and don't have it now, too bad.  I've seen this situation.  Guy ended up with a $65 paycheck to last him 2 weeks; lost the truck due to repo, then lost the job due to no transportation.  No money for kids.  Bankruptcy filings all around, it's a terrible mess.

Read the guys long screed, he is in this mess because of his own actions not extraordinary circumstances.

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Re: Debtors prison- A DUmmies Tale of Woe
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2012, 08:25:10 AM »
Back before my eldest turned 18 I had to contend with the fact my ex turned my life into an episode of Jerry Springer when she dumped me for her step-brother who was in prison for killing a man to protect a drug network (talk about your shots to the ego). Despite this horrendous scenario I was ordered to pay $350/month for the privilege of having my son taken from me.

Don't fret, she has since left him and moved on but all-in-all she has 3 children by 3 separate fathers. Thankfully, she also got really fat, so...HA!

Florida is a rather "helpful" state. If you have a support order they will garnish the amount owed each month. As far as I was concerned it saved me the hassle of stamps, envelopes, filling-out a check etc. However, when I re-enlisted for the National Guard the garnishment was also levied against my monthly drill checks of which they were taking 50%. In other words, I was OVER-paying.

When I moved to Colorado I recieved a letter that I was in arrears. As I had stayed employed and was still enlisted I was curious as to how this might come to be. So I phoned the FL Dept of Revenue where they assured me my account showed I was showing a surplus. Sure enough, the online account tracker showed this as well.

The next month I received another letter claiming arrearages and another phone call gained me another reassurance that I was showing a surplus...larger than previous month's (the amount of which was coincidentally 50% of my drill pay).

The month following I received yat another letter this time threatening to suspend my drivers license. This was no small thing as I had a Class A CDL which was required for my job with Halliburton. Again, I was told everything was in my favor; surely this was just a glitch.

The next month the glitch suspended my license. A check with the Colorado DMV showed the glitch had infected itself nationawide. I was told I could not return to work until my license was reinstated.

Every day for 6 weeks I was on the phone no less than 3 times a day speaking to a horde of bureaucrats who at best had no concern for me. I tried being pleasant, I tried cajoling, I tried screaming. I was told to hire a lawyer at $250/hour to contest my innocence. Consulting a lawyer revealed he could not do anything I was not already doing, i.e. file and wait. I was told once you level a complaint they register a ticket and have 30 days to act on/ignore it. If after 30 days nothing happens you are free to register a second complaint which begins another 30 days for them to set you aside.

At long last I got the one bureaucrat that actually cared (maybe she was new). practically in tears over the financial ruin of being out of work she gave me the number to a supervisor. I pleaded with the supervisor. Surely, I said, this all came about because someone hit the wrong button. If only someone would be brave enough to hit the other button this could all be resolved...I just needed a little bravery for my side. The records were all there. Everyone could see the truth of my cause. Why wouldn't anyone act?

She acted.

I was notified 3 days later that my license had been reinstated. Of course, just because the Dept of Revenue ****s-up doesn't mean the Dept of Motor Vehicles gives a rat's ass. If I wanted my license truly reinstated I had to pay the customary $75 just like every other deadbeat parent or drunk driver. Of course, living in Colorado meant I had to pay a courier a further $75 to stand in line for me.

So, 6 weeks later I was back on the job though I had lost 6 weeks of pay (BTW - I was ineligible for gov't assistance during this time because I was the bad guy, deadbeat parent in the eyes of the system that said I was overpaid). And I had to pay $150 to get back what was rightfully mine, wrongfully taken.

The ONLY upside to this is the fact that had they not been double-dipping from my monthly National Guard check I WOULD have gone into arrears. Their incompetence ultimately saved me from their incompetence.

I doubt this would ever making onto their lovely little liberal website, though. They love stories about how evil and mean the government is...but never stories about how incompetent and apthetic it becomes. They love the idea of government so long as they're the only ones in charge.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline Toastedturningtidelegs

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Re: Debtors prison- A DUmmies Tale of Woe
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2012, 08:26:54 AM »
There are some problems with the system (at least here).  The court will calculate the CS based on your tax return from last year.  Never mind what's going on now.  If you were hourly and had a ton of overtime, due to extraordinary circumstances, and don't have it now, too bad.  I've seen this situation.  Guy ended up with a $65 paycheck to last him 2 weeks; lost the truck due to repo, then lost the job due to no transportation.  No money for kids.  Bankruptcy filings all around, it's a terrible mess.
Yep! your income last year is not necessarily your income this year :banghead:
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Offline Tucker

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Re: Debtors prison- A DUmmies Tale of Woe
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2012, 08:27:34 AM »
Read the guys long screed, he is in this mess because of his own actions not extraordinary circumstances.

His sentencing date is this morning.

Off with his head.. er... off to the hoosegow with him.
Come to think of it, unions do create jobs. Companies have to hire two workers to do the work of one.