Prime example of the idiocy that is NU.

[Rebel Yell]

This is why I hate to ask a lib a question......

Do you see an answer in here anywhere?

I jumped off the boat at NU yesterday, and was immediately up to my knees in shit.

This is what happens when CC goes down.  BadCat is right.

http://www.neutralunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39457

Yesterday, 12:38 PM 
 Sam Fisher 
NUbie
   Join Date: Nov 01 2007
Posts: 22
Political Persuasion: Right of Center

How about those who support Obama because of the color of his skin? He is carrying 90% of the black vote. Coincidence?

Yesterday, 12:43 PM 
 Dick Tuck 
Dick Hussein Tuck
   Join Date: May 30 2007
Posts: 13,247
Political Persuasion: Left of Center

 Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Fisher 
How about those who support Obama because of the color of his skin? He is carrying 90% of the black vote. Coincidence?

If you believe that Obama is carrying 90% of the black vote (I dispute your number) only because of his color, rather than his message, I'd say you either haven't payed attention, or you just believe some inbred racial canard about the real dynamics of what's happening.

Yesterday, 01:12 PM 
 Sam Fisher 
NUbie
   Join Date: Nov 01 2007
Posts: 22
Political Persuasion: Right of Center

 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terr 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...8.barackobama1

The racial divide was stark in North Carolina, where Obama took 91% of the African-American vote and Clinton only 6%.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedi...,4171507.story

Obama won more than 90% of African Americans in both states

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opini..._Patterns.html

Obama won 88 percent of the black vote in Ohio.
...
But on Tuesday, given a choice, 90 percent of African American voters chose Obama.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/200...democrati.html

[in New Jersey] Obama, who received 82 percent of the black vote according to the exit polling data

(note: this is New Jersey, where Hillary was about as strong as anywhere).


But every single one of those blaack voters were very informed citizens voting for Obama because of his record (non existent), his morals (attends a racist church), and his stances (I must have missed them). None of them voted for him because he is black. ALL of the whites that vote for McCain (who I'm not a fan of) are ill informed rednecks who just don't want that nigra in the White House. Every well informed white voter will vote for Obama, because every American who pays attention will fall lock step in line with Obama. Hell, why even have an election.

 

Yesterday, 12:46 PM 
 Sam Fisher 
NUbie
   Join Date: Nov 01 2007
Posts: 22
Political Persuasion: Right of Center
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Tuck 
If you believe that Obama is carrying 90% of the black vote (I dispute your number) only because of his color, rather than his message, I'd say you either haven't payed attention, or you just believe some inbred racial canard about the real dynamics of what's happening.

If 90% of whites vote for McCain, would you say it is because of his message?

 

Yesterday, 12:50 PM 
 Dick Tuck 
Dick Hussein Tuck
   Join Date: May 30 2007
Posts: 13,249
Political Persuasion: Left of Center
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Fisher 
If 90% of whites vote for McCain, would you say it is because of his message?

No, and especially since early primary polls and discussions on this site indicated an intense disgust with McCain. Words often bantered were "RINO" and "he's against free speech".

Yesterday, 12:47 PM 
 Dolphy 
Often I am permitted to return to a meadow
   Join Date: May 28 2007
Location: Berkeley
Posts: 14,607
Political Persuasion: Left of Center
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Fisher 
How about those who support Obama because of the color of his skin? He is carrying 90% of the black vote. Coincidence?

Leaving aside for a moment the ridiculous contention that the only draw Obama has for other blacks is shared racial identity, which is the greater concern to you: the positive inclination of people to vote for a candidate because of ethnic pride and identification, or the negative inclination of people to vote against a candidate because of hatred and/or fear?

 

Yesterday, 12:50 PM 
 Sam Fisher 
NUbie
   Join Date: Nov 01 2007
Posts: 22
Political Persuasion: Right of Center Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolphy 
Leaving aside for a moment the ridiculous contention that the only draw Obama has for other blacks is shared racial identity, which is the greater concern to you: the positive inclination of people to vote for a candidate because of ethnic pride and identification, or the negative inclination of people to vote against a candidate because of hatred and/or fear?

In my opinion, they are equally ignorant reasons to vote for a candidate. Tell me what the Harvard educated, world trsveled lawyer has in common with the poor oppressed blacks in America, who are trying to get by the best they can on a small income. People who can't afford to go to college. Tell me the common denominator.

 

Yesterday, 12:50 PM 
Dick Tuck 
Dick Hussein Tuck
   Join Date: May 30 2007
Posts: 13,249
Political Persuasion: Left of Center
 
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Fisher 
In my opinion, they are equally ignorant reasons to vote for a candidate. Tell me what the Harvard educated, world trsveled lawyer has in common with the poor oppressed blacks in America, who are trying to get by the best they can on a small income. People who can't afford to go to college. Tell me the common denominator.

If you believe that racism and pride are equally ignorant, I feel sorry for you.

Yesterday, 12:55 PM 
 Dolphy 
Often I am permitted to return to a meadow
   Join Date: May 28 2007
Location: Berkeley
Posts: 14,608
Political Persuasion: Left of Center

 Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Fisher 
In my opinion, they are equally ignorant reasons to vote for a candidate. Tell me what the Harvard educated, world trsveled lawyer has in common with the poor oppressed blacks in America, who are trying to get by the best they can on a small income. People who can't afford to go to college. Tell me the common denominator.

Are you similarly concerned with Mormons who voted for Romney? Catholics for JFK? etc. etc. Lots of etceteras.

But ignorance aside, you haven't answered my question. I didn't ask which is more "ignorant." I asked which is more harmful: to vote for a candidate because of, or in part because of pride in shared identity, or to vote against a candidate out of fear and hatred?

 

Yesterday, 12:54 PM 
 Sam Fisher 
NUbie
   Join Date: Nov 01 2007
Posts: 22
Political Persuasion: Right of Center

 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Tuck 
If you believe that racism and pride are equally ignorant, I feel sorry for you.


Proud of what? That a rich lawyer is running for office. Again, tell me what the average black person in America has in common with Obama.

  Yesterday, 12:59 PM 
 Sam Fisher 
NUbie
   Join Date: Nov 01 2007
Posts: 22
Political Persuasion: Right of Center
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolphy 
Are you similarly concerned with Mormons who voted for Romney? Catholics for JFK? etc. etc. Lots of etceteras.

But ignorance aside, you haven't answered my question. I didn't ask which is more "ignorant." I asked which is more harmful: to vote for a candidate because of, or in part because of pride in shared identity, or to vote against a candidate out of fear and hatred?

I am equally concerned about any citizen who votes for a candidate based on that candidates appearance. I say they are equally harmful, both are equally divisive. Whether you are voting for or against, race based voting flies in the face of democracy, plain and simple.

Yesterday, 01:00 PM 
 Dolphy 
Often I am permitted to return to a meadow
   Join Date: May 28 2007
Location: Berkeley
Posts: 14,608
Political Persuasion: Left of Center

 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Fisher 
I am equally concerned about any citizen who votes for a candidate based on that candidates appearance. I say they are equally harmful, both are equally divisive. Whether you are voting for or against, race based voting flies in the face of democracy, plain and simple.

So the Mormon who votes for Romney out of pride bothers you as much as the white person who votes against a black person because he hates blacks.

Got it, Sam!

Yesterday, 01:03 PM 
 Sam Fisher 
NUbie
   Join Date: Nov 01 2007
Posts: 22
Political Persuasion: Right of Center

 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolphy 
So the Mormon who votes for Romney out of pride bothers you as much as the white person who votes against a black person because he hates blacks.

Got it, Sam!

So you know where I stand, because I'll tell you. Now you tell me, you have no problem with a voter voting for a candidate based on the color of his skin, his religion, or her gender, as long as they are voting for the candidate you support. Ends justify the means, right?

Yesterday, 01:10 PM 
 bodecea 
Homotroll Grand Poobah
   Join Date: Mar 11 2008
Location: Left Coast
Posts: 1,072
Political Persuasion: Left of Center
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Fisher 
I am equally concerned about any citizen who votes for a candidate based on that candidates appearance. I say they are equally harmful, both are equally divisive. Whether you are voting for or against, race based voting flies in the face of democracy, plain and simple.

I'm sorry...but there is a big difference between voting FOR someone because you identify with them in some way and voting AGAINST someone because you are racist, sexist, ageist or other.

 

Yesterday, 01:11 PM 
 Dolphy 
Often I am permitted to return to a meadow
   Join Date: May 28 2007
Location: Berkeley
Posts: 14,609
Political Persuasion: Left of Center

 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Fisher 
So you know where I stand, because I'll tell you. Now you tell me, you have no problem with a voter voting for a candidate based on the color of his skin, his religion, or her gender, as long as they are voting for the candidate you support. Ends justify the means, right?

Identity politics is one of the most basic building blocks behind politics in this and every other society. It is basic. Groups band together out of perceived shared interests. Would I prefer that everybody vote for a candidate based purely and only on ideology? You bet. Do I understand that people define their interests in terms of shared cultural allegiances? You bet. Do I understand that the nexus between race and culture and class and political ideology is extremely complex, and that an urban raised Harvard educated wealthy black man might have more in common with an urban raised Harvard educated wealthy white man than he has with a rural raised poor black man? Yep.

Identity politics is a complicated thing. But voting against somebody out of racism is more bothersome to me than voting for someone out of the perception of shared identity.

Yesterday, 01:16 PM 
 Sam Fisher 
NUbie
   Join Date: Nov 01 2007
Posts: 22
Political Persuasion: Right of Center
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolphy 
Identity politics is one of the most basic building blocks behind politics in this and every other society. It is basic. Groups band together out of perceived shared interests. Would I prefer that everybody vote for a candidate based purely and only on ideology? You bet. Do I understand that people define their interests in terms of shared cultural allegiances? You bet. Do I understand that the nexus between race and culture and class and political ideology is extremely complex, and that an urban raised Harvard educated wealthy black man might have more in common with an urban raised Harvard educated wealthy white man than he has with a rural raised poor black man? Yep.

Identity politics is a complicated thing. But voting against somebody out of racism is more bothersome to me than voting for someone out of the perception of shared identity.

Never been a big fan of tap dancing. I completely understand identity politics, but are YOU okay with someone voting for a candidate solely based on the color of that persons skin?

Yesterday, 01:17 PM 
 Dick Tuck 
Dick Hussein Tuck
   Join Date: May 30 2007
Posts: 13,250
Political Persuasion: Left of Center
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Fisher 
That will never be answered. He can't just come out and say that only whites are racist. Even though that's what he wants to say.

Geez, 90% of blacks are going to vote for whoever the Democrat is. They'll do so because the GOP has trivialized them, played the race card in their Southern Strategy, and otherwise have ignored things as simple as equal treatment under the law.

What are you personally doing to change the dynamics of the GOP to make it more inclusive, and responsive to simple American values of equal opportunity?

Yesterday, 01:18 PM 
 Dolphy 
Often I am permitted to return to a meadow
   Join Date: May 28 2007
Location: Berkeley
Posts: 14,609
Political Persuasion: Left of Center
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Fisher 
Never been a big fan of tap dancing. I completely understand identity politics, but are YOU okay with someone voting for a candidate solely based on the color of that persons skin?

I already answered your question. I prefer that people vote out of shared ideology. I said that, clearly.
 

Yesterday, 01:19 PM 
 Dick Tuck 
Dick Hussein Tuck
   Join Date: May 30 2007
Posts: 13,250
Political Persuasion: Left of Center
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Fisher 
Never been a big fan of tap dancing. I completely understand identity politics, but are YOU okay with someone voting for a candidate solely based on the color of that persons skin?

If I were black, why would I vote for a party that doesn't have a single black member in congress, and has shown disdain for calls of racial equality? Sorry, but your argument sound more like that angry white male lump of sour grapes.

 

Yesterday, 01:30 PM 
 Sam Fisher 
NUbie
   Join Date: Nov 01 2007
Posts: 22
Political Persuasion: Right of Center

 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolphy 
I already answered your question. I prefer that people vote out of shared ideology. I said that, clearly.

I didn't ask what you prefer, I asked do you have a problem with ill informed people voting based on the color of the candidates skin. And true to you liberal roots, you have answered everythiing except the question.

Yesterday, 01:33 PM 
 Dolphy 
Often I am permitted to return to a meadow
   Join Date: May 28 2007
Location: Berkeley
Posts: 14,609
Political Persuasion: Left of Center

 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Fisher 
I didn't ask what you prefer, I asked do you have a problem with ill informed people voting based on the color of the candidates skin. And true to you liberal roots, you have answered everythiing except the question.

No, Sam, I answered clearly. "Have a problem" means many things. By saying I would rather people vote out of shared ideology. If a Mormon votes for Romney even though Romney's views run counter to theirs, I think they're making a mistake, and I would have a problem with that. Ditto for any other ethnic/religious/racial category.

But, unlike you, I am less bothered by people voting for somebody out of shared ethnic identity, and people voting against somebody out of fear and racism. Pretty basic, Sam.
 

 

Yesterday, 01:34 PM 
 Sam Fisher 
NUbie
   Join Date: Nov 01 2007
Posts: 22
Political Persuasion: Right of Center

 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Tuck 
If I were black, why would I vote for a party that doesn't have a single black member in congress, and has shown disdain for calls of racial equality? Sorry, but your argument sound more like that angry white male lump of sour grapes.


What if the race was Alan Keyes vs. Hillary Clinton and the vast majority of black jumped ship to vote for Keyes? Would that be wrong? I know it's a stretch, but getting an answer is like pulling teeth.

 
 

Yesterday, 01:36 PM 
 Dolphy 
Often I am permitted to return to a meadow
   Join Date: May 28 2007
Location: Berkeley
Posts: 14,609
Political Persuasion: Left of Center

 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Fisher 
What if the race was Alan Keyes vs. Hillary Clinton and the vast majority of black jumped ship to vote for Keyes? Would that be wrong? I know it's a stretch, but getting an answer is like pulling teeth.

You example is instructive. If the race were Alan Keyes versus Hillary Clinton in the general, I am confident a majority of blacks would vote for Clinton.

**** it.  I give up.

[Willow]

Dick Hussein Tuck???

[Rebel Yell]

Dick Hussein Tuck???

AQpparently, he is a major player in the NU World Order.

[jtyangel]

Really, very funny exchange. I have an HR professor who really flies counter to the very muddled minds of liberals when she said protected classes are not only minorities, it is ANYONE who can be trivialized on the basis of 'name the protected descriptor'. If blacks hired(and I believe some do) the way they vote, they would not be able to stand up to the test under EEOC laws for their behavior. The problem with many liberals is that they believe, many do, that black racism and preference is allright. They won't come outright and say it and less pressed and when they do they will tell you everytime that blacks have the RIGHT to be racist because of the history of slavery and Jim Crowe ie they get a perpetual pass on equal treatment of others based on events in the past. This is why they have trivialized laws and regulations that were at one time meant to really help individuals who were trapped by prejudice.

Ok, I'm on a soapbox, but I really get tired of liberals who become apologists for behavior they abhor if its a different race or nationality doing it. Their idea of equal and fair is a crock of unmitigated, stinky sh*t if you ask me.

[Lord Undies]

I think dick tuck is what drag queens call the special panties they wear which hides the penis between the legs.  I'm sure Hussein fits in there somewhere.

[BEG]

Really, very funny exchange. I have an HR professor who really flies counter to the very muddled minds of liberals when she said protected classes are not only minorities, it is ANYONE who can be trivialized on the basis of 'name the protected descriptor'. If blacks hired(and I believe some do) the way they vote, they would not be able to stand up to the test under EEOC laws for their behavior. The problem with many liberals is that they believe, many do, that black racism and preference is allright. They won't come outright and say it and less pressed and when they do they will tell you everytime that blacks have the RIGHT to be racist because of the history of slavery and Jim Crowe ie they get a perpetual pass on equal treatment of others based on events in the past. This is why they have trivialized laws and regulations that were at one time meant to really help individuals who were trapped by prejudice.

Ok, I'm on a soapbox, but I really get tired of liberals who become apologists for behavior they abhor if its a different race or nationality doing it. Their idea of equal and fair is a crock of unmitigated, stinky sh*t if you ask me.

It's so they can keep the black man down.  If they actually held them to the same standards they wouldn't need those guilt ridden liberals anymore.  

[Rebel Yell]

I think dick tuck is what drag queens call the special panties they wear which hides the penis between the legs.  I'm sure Hussein fits in there somewhere.

I'm not even gonna ask how you know that.  I'm just gonna assume you are the expert on Undies.

[DixieBelle]

So it's okay for people to support Barack Insane Ooobama because "he's the first black president" if you're a black yourself. But, its' not okay to point that out and ask why people are supporting him based on race if you don't happen to either a) belong to that race or b) be a Barack Insane Ooobama supporter? Hmmmm

Funny story: last night, kiddo walks in, I'm watching FoxNews and they are running a clip of Hillary accepting WV's win. Kiddo says: "did you know that some people are going to vote for Obama because he's black?" Yes son, I did know that. Kiddo says: "That's just stupid. What does that have to do with him being able to be a good president?"

My 10 year old gets it.

[Chris_]

So it's okay for people to support Barack Insane Ooobama because "he's the first black president" if you're a black yourself. But, its' not okay to point that out and ask why people are supporting him based on race if you don't happen to either a) belong to that race or b) be a Barack Insane Ooobama supporter? Hmmmm

Funny story: last night, kiddo walks in, I'm watching FoxNews and they are running a clip of Hillary accepting WV's win. Kiddo says: "did you know that some people are going to vote for Obama because he's black?" Yes son, I did know that. Kiddo says: "That's just stupid. What does that have to do with him being able to be a good president?"

My 10 year old gets it.

Warn him on how his simple truth will be met when he is older.

[BEG]

So it's okay for people to support Barack Insane Ooobama because "he's the first black president" if you're a black yourself. But, its' not okay to point that out and ask why people are supporting him based on race if you don't happen to either a) belong to that race or b) be a Barack Insane Ooobama supporter? Hmmmm

Funny story: last night, kiddo walks in, I'm watching FoxNews and they are running a clip of Hillary accepting WV's win. Kiddo says: "did you know that some people are going to vote for Obama because he's black?" Yes son, I did know that. Kiddo says: "That's just stupid. What does that have to do with him being able to be a good president?"

My 10 year old gets it.

out of the mouths of babes.....

Reminds me of a conversation I had with my middle child a couple of years ago.  I was listening to Dennis Prager on the radio when we were in the car.  He was talking about abortion.  She turned to me and asked why would doctors perform abortions when they were suppose to save peoples lives.  

[john c calhoun]

I think dick tuck is what drag queens call the special panties they wear which hides the penis between the legs.  I'm sure Hussein fits in there somewhere.

I'm not even gonna ask how you know that.  I'm just gonna assume you are the expert on Undies.

he's had a few tucks himself over the years

[RobJohnson]

Reminds me of a conversation I had with my middle child a couple of years ago.  I was listening to Dennis Prager on the radio when we were in the car.  He was talking about abortion.  She turned to me and asked why would doctors perform abortions when they were suppose to save peoples lives.  

Very good point. Smart kid! (Did you adopt?  )

[PatriotGame]

Looks like the asylum spans more boards than just the DUmp.

Coincidentally, I will NOT vote for Obama because he is black. At least that is what the revrund Wright told this gun totin' Christian. Additionally, I will not vote for Hillary because she is a woman. Especially since I don't subscribe to the socialist insanity of the government village as my cradle to grave caretaker.

What I will do however, is vote for the person, any person, that carrys an undeniable love for this nation, its defense againstevil the world over, and fully respects the moral foundations this nation is based on.

In other words, piss off all of you racist, race-baiting, man hating fags!

[Chris_]

**** it.  I give up.

Never argue with an idiot.  He'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

[Rebel Yell]

**** it.  I give up.

Never argue with an idiot.  He'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

I should have known better than to ask a lib a yes or no question.  Yes or no is to straight forward and don't allow enough wiggle room.

[jtyangel]

**** it.  I give up.

Never argue with an idiot.  He'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

I should have known better than to ask a lib a yes or no question.  Yes or no is to straight forward and don't allow enough wiggle room.

They answer, but like I said it creates a quandry for the 'fairness' doctrines they support to answer it straight because what they end up saying is that they essentially support racism in the banner of 'pride' so long as only certain groups do so.

[megimoo]

This is why I hate to ask a lib a question......

Do you see an answer in here anywhere?

I jumped off the boat at NU yesterday, and was immediately up to my knees in shit.

This is what happens when CC goes down.  BadCat is right.

http://www.neutralunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39457

Yesterday, 12:38 PM 
 Sam Fisher 
NUbie
   Join Date: Nov 01 2007
Posts: 22
Political Persuasion: Right of Center

How about those who support Obama because of the color of his skin? He is carrying 90% of the black vote. Coincidence?

Yesterday, 12:43 PM 
 Dick Tuck 
Dick Hussein Tuck
   Join Date: May 30 2007
Posts: 13,247
Political Persuasion: Left of Center

 Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Fisher 
How about those who support Obama because of the color of his skin? He is carrying 90% of the black vote. Coincidence?

If you believe that Obama is carrying 90% of the black vote (I dispute your number) only because of his color, rather than his message, I'd say you either haven't payed attention, or you just believe some inbred racial canard about the real dynamics of what's happening.

Yesterday, 01:12 PM 
 Sam Fisher 
NUbie
   Join Date: Nov 01 2007
Posts: 22
Political Persuasion: Right of Center

 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terr 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...8.barackobama1

The racial divide was stark in North Carolina, where Obama took 91% of the African-American vote and Clinton only 6%.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedi...,4171507.story

Obama won more than 90% of African Americans in both states

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opini..._Patterns.html

Obama won 88 percent of the black vote in Ohio.
...
But on Tuesday, given a choice, 90 percent of African American voters chose Obama.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/200...democrati.html

[in New Jersey] Obama, who received 82 percent of the black vote according to the exit polling data

(note: this is New Jersey, where Hillary was about as strong as anywhere).


But every single one of those blaack voters were very informed citizens voting for Obama because of his record (non existent), his morals (attends a racist church), and his stances (I must have missed them). None of them voted for him because he is black. ALL of the whites that vote for McCain (who I'm not a fan of) are ill informed rednecks who just don't want that nigra in the White House. Every well informed white voter will vote for Obama, because every American who pays attention will fall lock step in line with Obama. Hell, why even have an election.

 

Yesterday, 12:46 PM 
 Sam Fisher 
NUbie
   Join Date: Nov 01 2007
Posts: 22
Political Persuasion: Right of Center
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Tuck 
If you believe that Obama is carrying 90% of the black vote (I dispute your number) only because of his color, rather than his message, I'd say you either haven't payed attention, or you just believe some inbred racial canard about the real dynamics of what's happening.

If 90% of whites vote for McCain, would you say it is because of his message?

 

Yesterday, 12:50 PM 
 Dick Tuck 
Dick Hussein Tuck
   Join Date: May 30 2007
Posts: 13,249
Political Persuasion: Left of Center
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Fisher 
If 90% of whites vote for McCain, would you say it is because of his message?

No, and especially since early primary polls and discussions on this site indicated an intense disgust with McCain. Words often bantered were "RINO" and "he's against free speech".

Yesterday, 12:47 PM 
 Dolphy 
Often I am permitted to return to a meadow
   Join Date: May 28 2007
Location: Berkeley
Posts: 14,607
Political Persuasion: Left of Center
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Fisher 
How about those who support Obama because of the color of his skin? He is carrying 90% of the black vote. Coincidence?

Leaving aside for a moment the ridiculous contention that the only draw Obama has for other blacks is shared racial identity, which is the greater concern to you: the positive inclination of people to vote for a candidate because of ethnic pride and identification, or the negative inclination of people to vote against a candidate because of hatred and/or fear?

 

Yesterday, 12:50 PM 
 Sam Fisher 
NUbie
   Join Date: Nov 01 2007
Posts: 22
Political Persuasion: Right of Center Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolphy 
Leaving aside for a moment the ridiculous contention that the only draw Obama has for other blacks is shared racial identity, which is the greater concern to you: the positive inclination of people to vote for a candidate because of ethnic pride and identification, or the negative inclination of people to vote against a candidate because of hatred and/or fear?

In my opinion, they are equally ignorant reasons to vote for a candidate. Tell me what the Harvard educated, world trsveled lawyer has in common with the poor oppressed blacks in America, who are trying to get by the best they can on a small income. People who can't afford to go to college. Tell me the common denominator.

 

Yesterday, 12:50 PM 
Dick Tuck 
Dick Hussein Tuck
   Join Date: May 30 2007
Posts: 13,249
Political Persuasion: Left of Center
 
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Fisher 
In my opinion, they are equally ignorant reasons to vote for a candidate. Tell me what the Harvard educated, world trsveled lawyer has in common with the poor oppressed blacks in America, who are trying to get by the best they can on a small income. People who can't afford to go to college. Tell me the common denominator.

If you believe that racism and pride are equally ignorant, I feel sorry for you.

Yesterday, 12:55 PM 
 Dolphy 
Often I am permitted to return to a meadow
   Join Date: May 28 2007
Location: Berkeley
Posts: 14,608
Political Persuasion: Left of Center

 Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Fisher 
In my opinion, they are equally ignorant reasons to vote for a candidate. Tell me what the Harvard educated, world trsveled lawyer has in common with the poor oppressed blacks in America, who are trying to get by the best they can on a small income. People who can't afford to go to college. Tell me the common denominator.

Are you similarly concerned with Mormons who voted for Romney? Catholics for JFK? etc. etc. Lots of etceteras.

But ignorance aside, you haven't answered my question. I didn't ask which is more "ignorant." I asked which is more harmful: to vote for a candidate because of, or in part because of pride in shared identity, or to vote against a candidate out of fear and hatred?

 

Yesterday, 12:54 PM 
 Sam Fisher 
NUbie
   Join Date: Nov 01 2007
Posts: 22
Political Persuasion: Right of Center

 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Tuck 
If you believe that racism and pride are equally ignorant, I feel sorry for you.


Proud of what? That a rich lawyer is running for office. Again, tell me what the average black person in America has in common with Obama.

  Yesterday, 12:59 PM 
 Sam Fisher 
NUbie
   Join Date: Nov 01 2007
Posts: 22
Political Persuasion: Right of Center
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolphy 
Are you similarly concerned with Mormons who voted for Romney? Catholics for JFK? etc. etc. Lots of etceteras.

But ignorance aside, you haven't answered my question. I didn't ask which is more "ignorant." I asked which is more harmful: to vote for a candidate because of, or in part because of pride in shared identity, or to vote against a candidate out of fear and hatred?

I am equally concerned about any citizen who votes for a candidate based on that candidates appearance. I say they are equally harmful, both are equally divisive. Whether you are voting for or against, race based voting flies in the face of democracy, plain and simple.

Yesterday, 01:00 PM 
 Dolphy 
Often I am permitted to return to a meadow
   Join Date: May 28 2007
Location: Berkeley
Posts: 14,608
Political Persuasion: Left of Center

 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Fisher 
I am equally concerned about any citizen who votes for a candidate based on that candidates appearance. I say they are equally harmful, both are equally divisive. Whether you are voting for or against, race based voting flies in the face of democracy, plain and simple.

So the Mormon who votes for Romney out of pride bothers you as much as the white person who votes against a black person because he hates blacks.

Got it, Sam!

Yesterday, 01:03 PM 
 Sam Fisher 
NUbie
   Join Date: Nov 01 2007
Posts: 22
Political Persuasion: Right of Center

 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolphy 
So the Mormon who votes for Romney out of pride bothers you as much as the white person who votes against a black person because he hates blacks.

Got it, Sam!

So you know where I stand, because I'll tell you. Now you tell me, you have no problem with a voter voting for a candidate based on the color of his skin, his religion, or her gender, as long as they are voting for the candidate you support. Ends justify the means, right?

Yesterday, 01:10 PM 
 bodecea 
Homotroll Grand Poobah
   Join Date: Mar 11 2008
Location: Left Coast
Posts: 1,072
Political Persuasion: Left of Center
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Fisher 
I am equally concerned about any citizen who votes for a candidate based on that candidates appearance. I say they are equally harmful, both are equally divisive. Whether you are voting for or against, race based voting flies in the face of democracy, plain and simple.

I'm sorry...but there is a big difference between voting FOR someone because you identify with them in some way and voting AGAINST someone because you are racist, sexist, ageist or other.

 

Yesterday, 01:11 PM 
 Dolphy 
Often I am permitted to return to a meadow
   Join Date: May 28 2007
Location: Berkeley
Posts: 14,609
Political Persuasion: Left of Center

 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Fisher 
So you know where I stand, because I'll tell you. Now you tell me, you have no problem with a voter voting for a candidate based on the color of his skin, his religion, or her gender, as long as they are voting for the candidate you support. Ends justify the means, right?

Identity politics is one of the most basic building blocks behind politics in this and every other society. It is basic. Groups band together out of perceived shared interests. Would I prefer that everybody vote for a candidate based purely and only on ideology? You bet. Do I understand that people define their interests in terms of shared cultural allegiances? You bet. Do I understand that the nexus between race and culture and class and political ideology is extremely complex, and that an urban raised Harvard educated wealthy black man might have more in common with an urban raised Harvard educated wealthy white man than he has with a rural raised poor black man? Yep.

Identity politics is a complicated thing. But voting against somebody out of racism is more bothersome to me than voting for someone out of the perception of shared identity.

Yesterday, 01:16 PM 
 Sam Fisher 
NUbie
   Join Date: Nov 01 2007
Posts: 22
Political Persuasion: Right of Center
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolphy 
Identity politics is one of the most basic building blocks behind politics in this and every other society. It is basic. Groups band together out of perceived shared interests. Would I prefer that everybody vote for a candidate based purely and only on ideology? You bet. Do I understand that people define their interests in terms of shared cultural allegiances? You bet. Do I understand that the nexus between race and culture and class and political ideology is extremely complex, and that an urban raised Harvard educated wealthy black man might have more in common with an urban raised Harvard educated wealthy white man than he has with a rural raised poor black man? Yep.

Identity politics is a complicated thing. But voting against somebody out of racism is more bothersome to me than voting for someone out of the perception of shared identity.

Never been a big fan of tap dancing. I completely understand identity politics, but are YOU okay with someone voting for a candidate solely based on the color of that persons skin?

Yesterday, 01:17 PM 
 Dick Tuck 
Dick Hussein Tuck
   Join Date: May 30 2007
Posts: 13,250
Political Persuasion: Left of Center
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Fisher 
That will never be answered. He can't just come out and say that only whites are racist. Even though that's what he wants to say.

Geez, 90% of blacks are going to vote for whoever the Democrat is. They'll do so because the GOP has trivialized them, played the race card in their Southern Strategy, and otherwise have ignored things as simple as equal treatment under the law.

What are you personally doing to change the dynamics of the GOP to make it more inclusive, and responsive to simple American values of equal opportunity?

Yesterday, 01:18 PM 
 Dolphy 
Often I am permitted to return to a meadow
   Join Date: May 28 2007
Location: Berkeley
Posts: 14,609
Political Persuasion: Left of Center
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Fisher 
Never been a big fan of tap dancing. I completely understand identity politics, but are YOU okay with someone voting for a candidate solely based on the color of that persons skin?

I already answered your question. I prefer that people vote out of shared ideology. I said that, clearly.
 

Yesterday, 01:19 PM 
 Dick Tuck 
Dick Hussein Tuck
   Join Date: May 30 2007
Posts: 13,250
Political Persuasion: Left of Center
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Fisher 
Never been a big fan of tap dancing. I completely understand identity politics, but are YOU okay with someone voting for a candidate solely based on the color of that persons skin?

If I were black, why would I vote for a party that doesn't have a single black member in congress, and has shown disdain for calls of racial equality? Sorry, but your argument sound more like that angry white male lump of sour grapes.

 

Yesterday, 01:30 PM 
 Sam Fisher 
NUbie
   Join Date: Nov 01 2007
Posts: 22
Political Persuasion: Right of Center

 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolphy 
I already answered your question. I prefer that people vote out of shared ideology. I said that, clearly.

I didn't ask what you prefer, I asked do you have a problem with ill informed people voting based on the color of the candidates skin. And true to you liberal roots, you have answered everythiing except the question.

Yesterday, 01:33 PM 
 Dolphy 
Often I am permitted to return to a meadow
   Join Date: May 28 2007
Location: Berkeley
Posts: 14,609
Political Persuasion: Left of Center

 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Fisher 
I didn't ask what you prefer, I asked do you have a problem with ill informed people voting based on the color of the candidates skin. And true to you liberal roots, you have answered everythiing except the question.

No, Sam, I answered clearly. "Have a problem" means many things. By saying I would rather people vote out of shared ideology. If a Mormon votes for Romney even though Romney's views run counter to theirs, I think they're making a mistake, and I would have a problem with that. Ditto for any other ethnic/religious/racial category.

But, unlike you, I am less bothered by people voting for somebody out of shared ethnic identity, and people voting against somebody out of fear and racism. Pretty basic, Sam.
 

 

Yesterday, 01:34 PM 
 Sam Fisher 
NUbie
   Join Date: Nov 01 2007
Posts: 22
Political Persuasion: Right of Center

 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Tuck 
If I were black, why would I vote for a party that doesn't have a single black member in congress, and has shown disdain for calls of racial equality? Sorry, but your argument sound more like that angry white male lump of sour grapes.


What if the race was Alan Keyes vs. Hillary Clinton and the vast majority of black jumped ship to vote for Keyes? Would that be wrong? I know it's a stretch, but getting an answer is like pulling teeth.

 
 

Yesterday, 01:36 PM 
 Dolphy 
Often I am permitted to return to a meadow
   Join Date: May 28 2007
Location: Berkeley
Posts: 14,609
Political Persuasion: Left of Center

 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Fisher 
What if the race was Alan Keyes vs. Hillary Clinton and the vast majority of black jumped ship to vote for Keyes? Would that be wrong? I know it's a stretch, but getting an answer is like pulling teeth.

You example is instructive. If the race were Alan Keyes versus Hillary Clinton in the general, I am confident a majority of blacks would vote for Clinton.

**** it.  I give up.

What the heck do you expect ?Those critters are the pick of the liberal very far left moonbat DU litter on NU!

Bok_Tukalo,very liberal,Total Posts: 26,653 (33.75 posts per day 
Dick Tuck Total total wack_out,Posts: 13,337 (38.02 posts per day
Double-oh-em Total Posts: 7,045 (8.94 posts per day
Norm DePlume Total Posts: 8,498 (10.93 posts per day |

[john c calhoun]

**** it.  I give up.

Never argue with an idiot.  He'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

I should have known better than to ask a lib a yes or no question.  Yes or no is to straight forward and don't allow enough wiggle room.

They answer, but like I said it creates a quandry for the 'fairness' doctrines they support to answer it straight because what they end up saying is that they essentially support racism in the banner of 'pride' so long as only certain groups do so.

nice analysis.....

[jtyangel]

**** it.  I give up.

Never argue with an idiot.  He'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

I should have known better than to ask a lib a yes or no question.  Yes or no is to straight forward and don't allow enough wiggle room.

They answer, but like I said it creates a quandry for the 'fairness' doctrines they support to answer it straight because what they end up saying is that they essentially support racism in the banner of 'pride' so long as only certain groups do so.

nice analysis.....

thx, JCC

[USA4ME]

Dick Tuck 

If you believe that Obama is carrying 90% of the black vote (I dispute your number) only because of his color, rather than his message, I'd say you either haven't payed attention, or you just believe some inbred racial canard about the real dynamics of what's happening.

What a  !!  There's no argument that Hussein Osama is getting the overwhelming majority of the black vote based upon his race.

Dolphy 

Leaving aside for a moment the ridiculous contention that the only draw Obama has for other blacks is shared racial identity, which is the greater concern to you: the positive inclination of people to vote for a candidate because of ethnic pride and identification, or the negative inclination of people to vote against a candidate because of hatred and/or fear?

This dolt isn't any brighter.  No one claimed it was the "only draw," so he's already lied about what was stated.

The correct answer is "people to vote for a candidate because of ethnic pride and identification," and it most definately is not a positive.  If you're going to ask a question, Dolphy, at least make the effort to ask the question the correct way.

I like scott, and the idea was a good one, but the place turned into twinkieville and the libs cried so much about getting abused that it lost its flavor really quick.

.

[TheSarge]

RY...facts don't matter to them...when you present them with a factual rebuttal of their propaganda...they just do a little two-step in a different direction.

It's like trying to put your finger on Mercury.

Wait til you get Winnie...errr...Winston into the debate...He's got a storage shed FULL of straw men and red herrings.

[TheSarge]

They answer, but like I said it creates a quandry for the 'fairness' doctrines they support to answer it straight because what they end up saying is that they essentially support racism in the banner of 'pride' so long as only certain groups do so.

To Libs in General racism...bigotry and homophobia are perfectly acceptable...as long as the target of their hatred is Conservative...Republican or Christian.

But bring a Liberal into the picture...bring up their favorite candidate's association with an unrepentant bomb thrower...a racist militant "preacher" and a few other flaws their man has and suddenly your a racist bigot on the way to the next KKK Meeting.

Or question the also-ran on the Dem side about her association with Communists...travel-gate....file-gate or illegal campaign money...and they'll label you a misogynistic wife beater who probably like underage girls.

[Airwolf]

**** NU. I have alot less headaches now that I don't visit that swamp Gator is using for a new home.

[Rebel Yell]

Yesterday, 01:46 PM 
 Dick Tuck 
Dick Hussein Tuck
   Join Date: May 30 2007
Posts: 13,397
Political Persuasion: Left of Center

 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-oh-em 
You have started...

35 anti-McCain threads
6 anti-Thompson threads
5 anti-Huckabee threads
4 anti-Giuliani threads
3 anti-Paul threads
3 anti-Romney threads

20 pro-Obama threads
I have two questions:

You seem to have left out:

1. Positive comments I've made about the various candidates, including McCain, Huckabee, and Paul.

2. I'm not sure where you cast this thread, since my OP was positive about McCain. You really ought to read that thread in light of the subsequent attitudes of the ROCs here.

Quote:
Are you a paid Obama operative? (If not, where do you find the time...)
Do you support negative compaigning?  

1. Are you really so paranoid that you believe that Senator Obama would pay someone to post on Neutral Underground?
But no, I'm actually paying Obama to become an advocate of all that's good about America.

2. I'm homeless and post from the libarary. My personal life is my business, and will share only what I choose to.

3. I recognize that negative campaigning is a reality, and am fully willing to engage in kind. Do you believe one should run from fights, or go head on with them. I believe that there are several levels of hell that I wouldn't go, and have stated so. One is the slime dug up against McCain by Ted Sampley, Rep Bob Dornan, and Senator Bob Smith, regarding his POW status. I saw the Swift boaters as total scum, and would never, under any circumstances put myself at that level. But you know what. The swiftboaters and willie hortoners made an impact on our politics, and helped their guy win.

4. The Republican field had a lot of baggage, and so does McCain. These are things to be considered.

5. What is your problem with posting on a political forum, from an advocacy perspective? Do you have values, attitudes, and beliefs about politics? I have very strong ones, and I think I've been more than willing to defend them. I'm a proud liberal, and have been one since I was a kid, growing up seeing the clubbing and firehoses during the civil rights movement, JFK's inspiration and his subsequent murder, Vietnam, and on and on. I came to view the conservative agenda as morally bankrupt, personally selfish, and America at its worst. So yes, I have some strong viewpoints.

Dick Tuck is homeless?  Yet, he uses the computer at the library to post at NU.  He is on all day.  Does he go out and look for work?  No, he's waiting for Obama to redistribute someone elses wealth his way.  Yet he claims to never visit DU.  Well, he damn sure fits the profile.

He is homeless, yet he has contributed to Obama's campaign?  This NUmbskull expects to be taken serious?  I'm sorry, but if he can't figure out how to get his own shit in order, why should we listen to his opinions on getting the natioans shit together.

[TheSarge]

Dick Tuck is homeless?  Yet, he uses the computer at the library to post at NU.  He is on all day.  Does he go out and look for work?  No, he's waiting for Obama to redistribute someone elses wealth his way.  Yet he claims to never visit DU.  Well, he damn sure fits the profile.

He is homeless, yet he has contributed to Obama's campaign?  This NUmbskull expects to be taken serious?  I'm sorry, but if he can't figure out how to get his own shit in order, why should we listen to his opinions on getting the natioans shit together.

If he's homeless and posts from the Library then John McCain is Ronald Reagan come back to life.