KS archbishop tells Goveror Sebelius to stop taking communion

[VivisMom]

Okay, I'm totally behind the archbishop on this one. You can't be Catholic and pro-choice, it's just not an option.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3266464

proud2Blib  (1000+ posts)       Sat May-10-08 03:08 AM
Original message
KS archbishop tells Goveror Sebelius to stop taking communion
 Advertisements [?]Sebelius draws a church leader's rebuke
By FINN BULLERS
The Kansas City Star


Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius should stop taking Communion until she repudiates her support for the “serious moral evil” of abortion, the Catholic archbishop for northeast Kansas says.

Archbishop Joseph F. Naumann, of the Archdiocese of Kansas City in Kansas, also criticized the governor Friday for her recent veto of a bill imposing new restrictions on abortion providers.

In a column published in the archdiocesan newspaper The Leaven, Naumann called on the Catholic governor to take the “necessary steps for amendment of her life.”

Naumann later told The Kansas City Star that would involve a confession, a public apology and a promise to undo the damage done by her “scandalous behavior that has misled people into dangerous behavior.”

Sebelius spokeswoman Nicole Corcoran said the governor had not seen the column, but said “receiving Communion has not been a problem in the past for her.”

more . . . http://www.kansascity.com/105/story/613716.html

Be sure to read the comments after the article. There are some good ones.
 

Some of my favorite replies:

JackRiddler (1000+ posts)       Mon May-12-08 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
69. "Somebody" would have to be Martin Luther since the Pope IS this nonsense.
 Why don't people get a brain and put an end to this 2000-year cancer?

Telling the archbishop to **** off and stuff his doctrine with the poker already up his ass would be an excellent start. 

 

pingzing58  (1000+ posts)      Sat May-10-08 03:18 AM
Response to Original message
5. Every Catholic is to uphold Civil law. She cannot be forced to go against it by the Bishop. She
 needs to seek legal advice from her civil lawyer and seek advice by obtaining a canon lawyer from the Church. They are out there and willing to help. The canon lawyers that work for Kansas are baught and owned by Archbishop Naumann. Don't seek their help, look for others if you need my help, post on this string. Because he thinks he's a Medieval Lord who has complete power over his vassals. It's a Medieval system that has seen its day. 

IDIOT.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P4U.HTM
Can. 1311 The Church has the innate and proper right to coerce offending members of the Christian faithful with penal sanctions.

crimsonblue  (1000+ posts)       Sat May-10-08 03:21 AM
Response to Original message
7. two words to the archbishop.... 
 **** off. If the Catholic Church really cared, they would excommunicate all pro-choice advocates. Either grow a pair and do what their religious bylaws stipulate, or STFU!

They're working on it.

crimsonblue  (1000+ posts)       Sat May-10-08 03:36 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. i'm thinking perfectly clear.. 
 Rome and religion need to stay the hell out of politics and government. If Rome really cared about preventing abortion, they would advocate safe sex practices.. but I guess you don't need safe sex when you're a priest molesting boys

They advocate the safest sex of all...monogamous sex ONLY within the confines of marriage. DUH! And nice crack about molesting altar boys. How very creative of you!

proud2Blib  (1000+ posts)       Sun May-11-08 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
37. If they really cared about protecting kids, 
 the Catholic church would do something about the pedophile priests. 

Ah, the same old song and dance...again. These people really need to come up with something better, because I can easily find statistics that say clergy from ALL faiths have pedophiles in them.

tpj317 (63 posts)      Mon May-12-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
43. Seriously...
 She does not accept Church teachings, she has every right to believe and live as she pleases. Yet, so does the Church. I don't understand, I really don't. Since she rejects Church teaching and Church authority, then she is really only marginally Catholic at best, so why doesn't she just go shopping for a Church that doesn't care what she believes?

Free thinker, low post count...

tpj317 (63 posts)      Mon May-12-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. She is for abortion, and refused to either change that position
 or to at least refrain from receiving Communion as requested by her spiritual leader, her Bishop. It does not take one to be an angel to realize that you cannot rightly claim to be Catholic, while ignoring Catholic teachings. It is like saying one is an artist, yet has never once ever created any art of any kind. The Bishop is to be concerned no only for her soul, but the many other souls under his charge.

I am not judging her soul, I am judging her actions...just as we all do.

DadOf2LittleAngels (1000+ posts)      Mon May-12-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #54
95. Ummmmm
 - so who are you to proclaim that "She does not accept Church teachings"

The church teaches abortion is wrong, she rejects that...

- It is very disengenuous of you to declare yourself judge of this woman, whom I presume you do not know.

If you're a member of an organization and you reject both the teaching and leadership you are only a marginal member

- It is very obvious, however, that the archbishop has a bit of a moral dilemma in interfering with a political issue while living a tax-exempt life.

No more so than when members of other non profit like Planned parenthood who are both exempt from taxes and receivers of federal money chime in on the same issue.
 

proud2Blib  (1000+ posts)       Mon May-12-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #59
88. I come from a very large Catholic family
 I have an uncle who is a priest and a cousin who is a nun. My uncle is a member of a group of priests who advocate for the ordination of women and homosexual rights. He also worked with a group who rewrote the New Testament to make it more gender friendly. He is pro choice. My cousin is a social justice activist who works with the poor. I have no idea what her position on abortion is because we talk about what we consider much more important issues, like feeding the hungry and housing the homeless. But I can report that almost every member of my family, including the ones who are still active in the church, are pro choice. My cousin says we are pro choice and anti hunger. In other words, we were taught to live as Jesus did and make the world a better place, rather than imposing our religious values on others.

The point I am trying to make is that within the church there is much division on abortion and contraception. Since the 1960s, some Catholic leaders have tried to persuade the church to change its position on contraception. There are also many pro choice groups within the church. These are dirty little secrets that zealots like this archbishop don't want non-Catholics to know.

So Sebelius is not alone and for you to advocate she leave the church is a denial of the reality of modern Catholicism.

 

I would say that your uncle isn't a Catholic and should be defrocked and excommunicated. If I knew his name, I'd send it over to the Vatican ASAP. And I know people with Vatican connections; justice would be swift.


The bonfire is warm and growing larger. I'm eager to hear what Frank thinks of tpj317. He's pretty much doomed over there, but I can't figure out if he's just a very sane DUmmie or a mole.

[BlueStateSaint]

Totally behind the Archbishop on this one.

[FlaGator]

- It is very obvious, however, that the archbishop has a bit of a moral dilemma in interfering with a political issue while living a tax-exempt life.

The only reason abortion is a political issue is that government decided to take a moral issue and make it political. At the time of Roe v. Wade there was no way that the American public would have voted to make abortion legal so the activist Supreme Court took it upon itself to create a right that before did not exist. What could not be achieved by legislation was achieved by litigation.

[franksolich]

I suspect the tpj317 primitive isn't for long on Skins's island.

And the dysmenopausal Kansas school teacher continues to betray her real problems with her own mouth.

[PatriotGame]

They advocate the safest sex of all...monogamous sex ONLY within the confines of marriage. DUH! And nice crack about molesting altar boys. How very creative of you!

Well, those bishops that molested the altar boys WERE fags - one of the darlings of the left's protected class.

[VivisMom]

They advocate the safest sex of all...monogamous sex ONLY within the confines of marriage. DUH! And nice crack about molesting altar boys. How very creative of you!

Well, those bishops that molested the altar boys WERE fags - one of the darlings of the left's protected class.

How many of the DUmpmonkeys are members of NAMBLA again???

[Chris_]

Totally behind the Archbishop on this one.

Me too, and I'm not Catholic. To the DUmbasses, we have freedom of religion in this country, so vaffanculo.

[dandi]

proud2Blib  (1000+ posts)       Tue May-13-08 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #123
129. Wow. Are you an OD?
 I can't imagine anyone, other than the OD themselves, not seeing that it is indeed a lunatic fringe. 
 
tpj317 (73 posts)      Tue May-13-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #129
130. Just saw this one. No, I am not a member of OD. However,
 I know some OD members and they are some of the best and most moral people I have ever met. They would literally give the shirt off their backs to just about anyone. The truth is, if one does a careful study of what OD is, they would realize that only in this so-called modern world is OD seen as being some sort of fringe group. In the 40s, 50s and 60s (before V2) OD members were simply thought of as being "Catholics." In those days the views of OD were the norm, not the exception. OD believes in following all of the teachings of the faith, in obeying the Pope and in trying to live the faith right in their own personal lives for all to see. Previous to the last 30 years or so OD members were not much different than other faithful Catholics (which during those days were the majority, not the minority). Today, however, things are a lot different in the Church. Something like 80% of all Catholics dissent against a plethora of Church teachings and less than a generation ago that number was likely around 10-20%. There has been a huge falling away from the faith among Catholics over a 30-40 year period, which makes OD seem extreme, when in fact it is the dissenters that are extreme. A study taken not long ago reflected that 70% of Catholics surveyed did not believe in the Real Presence (the existence of Jesus' Real Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity) in the Eucharist--in the 60s that number was 10-20%. Today <10% of Catholics go to confession every year, whereas in the 50s and 60s 80-90% went to confession at least once a year. Huge numbers contracept today, in the 50s and 60s that number was close to nill. Huge numbers divorce and remarry today, a huge no-no in the 50s and 60s and a literal impossibility in the faith. Huge numbers fornicate and live together today, in the 50s and 60s that was close to nill...the list can go on. The point is OD simply holds that the divinely revealed truths held by the Church for nearly 2,000 years are still true, fornication is still a mortal sin, divorce and remarriage is still impossible, etc. Cultural changes do not change revealed truths, no matter how enlightened the culture thinks it is. OD simply follows the real faith...nothing more, nothing less and that is how it was for the vast majority of Catholics just a short 30-40 years ago. If that makes OD a fringe group today, then I think that is a sign of how far the laity have fallen.

Either way, OD has nothing to do with this because the Bishop is simply following Church teachings. I know that in itself seems extreme (just like OD is thought to be extreme today), yet the truth is all Bishops are called to uphold, teach, propagate and defend the faith in its entirety.

MAJOR pwnage by tpj317! 

He/she totally owned the bunch of hysterical mouthbreathers throughout that thread. 
 

[BlueStateSaint]

proud2Blib  (1000+ posts)       Tue May-13-08 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #123
129. Wow. Are you an OD?
 I can't imagine anyone, other than the OD themselves, not seeing that it is indeed a lunatic fringe. 
 
tpj317 (73 posts)      Tue May-13-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #129
130. Just saw this one. No, I am not a member of OD. However,
 I know some OD members and they are some of the best and most moral people I have ever met. They would literally give the shirt off their backs to just about anyone. The truth is, if one does a careful study of what OD is, they would realize that only in this so-called modern world is OD seen as being some sort of fringe group. In the 40s, 50s and 60s (before V2) OD members were simply thought of as being "Catholics." In those days the views of OD were the norm, not the exception. OD believes in following all of the teachings of the faith, in obeying the Pope and in trying to live the faith right in their own personal lives for all to see. Previous to the last 30 years or so OD members were not much different than other faithful Catholics (which during those days were the majority, not the minority). Today, however, things are a lot different in the Church. Something like 80% of all Catholics dissent against a plethora of Church teachings and less than a generation ago that number was likely around 10-20%. There has been a huge falling away from the faith among Catholics over a 30-40 year period, which makes OD seem extreme, when in fact it is the dissenters that are extreme. A study taken not long ago reflected that 70% of Catholics surveyed did not believe in the Real Presence (the existence of Jesus' Real Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity) in the Eucharist--in the 60s that number was 10-20%. Today <10% of Catholics go to confession every year, whereas in the 50s and 60s 80-90% went to confession at least once a year. Huge numbers contracept today, in the 50s and 60s that number was close to nill. Huge numbers divorce and remarry today, a huge no-no in the 50s and 60s and a literal impossibility in the faith. Huge numbers fornicate and live together today, in the 50s and 60s that was close to nill...the list can go on. The point is OD simply holds that the divinely revealed truths held by the Church for nearly 2,000 years are still true, fornication is still a mortal sin, divorce and remarriage is still impossible, etc. Cultural changes do not change revealed truths, no matter how enlightened the culture thinks it is. OD simply follows the real faith...nothing more, nothing less and that is how it was for the vast majority of Catholics just a short 30-40 years ago. If that makes OD a fringe group today, then I think that is a sign of how far the laity have fallen.

Either way, OD has nothing to do with this because the Bishop is simply following Church teachings. I know that in itself seems extreme (just like OD is thought to be extreme today), yet the truth is all Bishops are called to uphold, teach, propagate and defend the faith in its entirety.

MAJOR pwnage by tpj317!   
 

tpj317 is not long for the DUmp . . . 

[Splashdown]

This needs to be done more often. Kudos to the bishop!

[Chris_]

This needs to be done more often. Kudos to the bishop!

+1  This came up in 2004 with John Kerry, I believe, as well as a number of other liberal democrats that were running for election.  Most of these pols just shrug it off.....which pretty much tells you where in the order of their lives, they place their faith.....

doc

[BlueStateSaint]

This needs to be done more often. Kudos to the bishop!

+1  This came up in 2004 with John Kerry, I believe, as well as a number of other liberal democrats that were running for election.  Most of these pols just shrug it off.....which pretty much tells you where in the order of their lives, they place their faith.....

doc

God does not like being mocked.  I'm certain that He will allow scores to be settled . . . if not now, in the next life.