How to piss off a liberal: cite the constitution

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Scuba (15,990 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

Mike Conway (R-Tex): "The Costitution says we have to spend money on defense, not food stamps."

“The Constitution is pretty clear that national defense is something the federal government should provide for and we ought to do it well,” answered Rep. Mike Conaway (R-Texas) in the agriculture debate on food stamps. “I’m not so sure that the Constitution says that many of the other areas that we’re talking about today have that same priority for the federal government.”

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=33532A5A-7A5B-409C-A661-2AF0F549CAB4

Related...

For months, House Republicans have been trying to wriggle out of the agreement they made in August that will force deep cuts in military spending. Now we know how they propose to do it: They will take tens of billions out of programs for the poorest Americans, particularly food stamps, along with health care for the middle class.

The House Agriculture Committee voted on Wednesday to cut $33 billion over the next decade out of food stamps. That would immediately end benefits for two million people, and reduce benefits for the remaining 44 million people who use the program. A family of four would find their benefits lowered by $57 a month beginning in September, according to an analysis by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. The committee trimmed job training for food-stamp recipients by 72 percent; 280,000 students would no longer be eligible for free meals.

To understand how callous this vote was, consider the choices the committee and the full House could have made. The budget deal reached last August — the one Republicans triggered with their disastrous debt-ceiling crisis — calls for a painful sequester of $600 billion to both military and domestic spending over a decade. The Republicans could have accepted the military cuts they had agreed to or they could have joined with Democrats in reducing the cuts by raising taxes on the rich.

Instead, the 2013 budget, written by Representative Paul Ryan of Wisconsin, put all the cuts on the domestic side. Representative Mike Conaway, a Texas Republican, explained that the Constitution requires Congress to pay for defense but that food stamps and other domestic programs were lower priorities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/24/opinion/callous-choices-in-the-house.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120424

CJCRANE (11,809 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

1. As I understand it

the Founding Fathers were mostly against having a standing army.

I think repubs just say whatever they feel like saying regardless of the facts.

And yet, Article 1, Section 8 gives congress the power to raise one.

gratuitous (48,558 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

2. In Guns vs. Butter, Guns win again!

Perhaps someone should point out to Mr. Conway some interesting words I found on a quaint old document: "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Looks like "the common defence" is fourth on that little list; how does it get promoted to first so blithely, and when were "We the People" consulted about that?

1. That's the pre-amble. It has no weight of law

2. There's still no provision of food stamps

3. The rest of the COTUS forbids food stamps

4. Note that even according to your scheme of things "common defence" precedes "general welfare"

You suck at this game.

sinkingfeeling (23,684 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

4. Funny, it says as much about general welfare as it does about defense.

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Provide > promote

Fresh_Start (6,272 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

5. But it doesn't specify that we need to spend more then the next 10 countries combined

its not as if the budget cuts eliminated defense.

Pathetic excuse

And how much do we spend in comparison to other countries on a failed education and entitled system?

Downwinder (5,226 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

7. BS. Health and Education are Defense. A starving or undernourished

population would not be able to defend themselves.

And yet obesity is the #1 health issue for those on government assistance.

haele (4,814 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

15. Blockhead -a reason for food stamps and school lunches was to improve the health of the military

- by ensuring that the people entering Selective Service - potential military members - were strong enough to handle the stress of service. There was a huge problem during WWII with young men who had been starving during the Depression being physically and mentally able enough to serve - whether they were drafted or wanted to serve.
Because they didn't have a sufficient amount or variety of food while they were growing up, these young people were smaller, subject to tiring easily, and rather simple both emotionally and mentally.
I guess it's easier to rule desperate, sick, and difficult to educate people.

Republicans, you might as well have your Marie Antoinette moment -

"They don't have food in their kitchens? Then let them go out and get a McD's value meal..."
(Yes, I know she didn't actually say "They have no bread? Then let them eat cake...")

Haele

So what you're saying is...

...women and the unfit should be excluded.

How you like me now, ****ers!

 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002605044

[Rebel]

Hey, lurking DUmbasses!


This:


provide for the common defence

is NOT the same a this:

promote the general Welfare



You notice anything different, you ****ing retarded chimps? Do I need to point it out?

[Freeper]

gratuitous (48,558 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

2. In Guns vs. Butter, Guns win again!

Perhaps someone should point out to Mr. Conway some interesting words I found on a quaint old document: "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Looks like "the common defence" is fourth on that little list; how does it get promoted to first so blithely, and when were "We the People" consulted about that?

Yeah but without guns the butter can be taken from you quite easily.

sinkingfeeling (23,684 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

4. Funny, it says as much about general welfare as it does about defense.

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Just like Mr Bunny said, it says promote not provide for, their is a difference.

[Rebel]

BTW, "general" is all. Giving Shaniqua a ****ing EBT to sit on her fat ass all day gossiping to Latoya, and using MY ****ing money to do so, isn't doing a damn thing for the "general" welfare. General welfare means to provide an environment for the nation, and the citizens that reside in it, to thrive. Your ****ing party has done every ****ing thing it can to PREVENT growth, you Communist pieces of sloth shit.  

[DefiantSix]

sinkingfeeling (23,684 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

4. Funny, it says as much about general welfare as it does about defense.

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

As the timid woodland creature mentioned above, DUmbass:

1. That's the pre-amble. It has no weight of law

2. There's still no provision of food stamps

3. The rest of the COTUS forbids food stamps

4. Note that even according to your scheme of things "common defence" precedes "general welfare"

You suck at this game.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

By my count, that's 5 separate sub-sections of Article I, Sect. 8 (aka: The ENUMERATED POWERS) detailing what the Congress' responsibilities for "providing for the common defense" might be.  Near as I can figure, unless it's within the confines of the District of Columbia, the Congress doesn't have power #1 to, "promote the general welfare" in the manner in which you DUmb****s assume.

 

[Chris_]

If food stamps were meant to promote the general welfare, everyone would get them.

I'll pass.

[obumazombie]

If food stamps were meant to promote the general welfare, everyone would get them.

I'll pass.

If you pass, it will bring down the whole system.

[DefiantSix]

If you pass, it will bring down the whole system.

And that's a bad thing be-cuuuuuz??? 

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

...their is a difference.

There is also a difference between their, there and they're.

          

[obumazombie]

There is also a difference between their, there and they're.

          

You are so right, rite, write.

[Freeper]

There is also a difference between their, there and they're.

          

I have an excuse, it was a long day at work and my allergies are in high gear. I need to be more careful of what eye right. 

[wasp69]

gratuitous (48,558 posts)
2. In Guns vs. Butter, Guns win again!

Perhaps someone should point out to Mr. Conway some interesting words I found on a quaint old document: "We the People of the United States.."

sinkingfeeling (23,684 posts)
4. Funny, it says as much about general welfare as it does about defense.

"We the People of the United States..."

The Preamble to the Constitution is the first and last refuge of the collectivist scum who are desperately trying to hold on to their holy grail of wealth redistribution.  As has been pointed out so succinctly in the this thread, the Preamble does not hold the weight of law.  Not that this matters to the greedy little democrat ass-douches, just the opposite. 

But, DUmmies, let's end all doubt and read the words of the Father of the Constitution (Mr. James Madison):

If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the general welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one subject to particular exceptions. It is to be remarked that the phrase out of which this doctrine is elaborated, is copied from the old articles of Confederation, where it was always understood as nothing more than a general caption to the specified powers, and it is a fact that it was preferred in the new instrument for that very reason as less liable than any other to misconstruction.

With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators.

Now, isn't that interesting?  Words from the man himself on what "general welfare" meant which, incidentally, is nothing like your interpretation.  But, Mr. Madison wasn't done, he was very clear on what charity the government had to responsibility to dole out:

Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents

Ah, what the Hell does this old white man know, he only wrote the damn document you heathens claim as law to steal from the rest of us.

[Rebel]

Ah, what the Hell does this old white man know, he only wrote the damn document you heathens claim as law to steal from the rest of us.

And if I'm not mistaken, he was referring to providing charity to French refugees, the same French that helped us out in the revolution. He wasn't against helping them out, as individuals, but the thought of forcing other people to be charitable was appalling to him and he made the case that that was not within the scope of the powers of government.

[wasp69]

And if I'm not mistaken, he was referring to providing charity to French refugees, the same French that helped us out in the revolution. He wasn't against helping them out, as individuals, but the thought of forcing other people to be charitable was appalling to him and he made the case that that was not within the scope of the powers of government.

Yes, sir, you are 110% correct.

[AllosaursRus]

But, but, but, the Constitution is a living breathing document in order to adjust itself with the times. Every time I hear those words from a DUmb**** liberal, I want to feed the Constitution to them a page at a time. Hell the Heritage Foundation will send us pocket Constitutions to make it easier and more convenient!

You assholes cannot just read it and make up what you want it to mean! It is the law of the land and should be held up by the letter!

[DumbAss Tanker]

gratuitous (48,558 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

2. In Guns vs. Butter, Guns win again!

If you don't have the military power to defend your own country, the butter just attracts predators.  What happened to the disarmed civilized Celts south of Hadrian's Wall when the legions that had protected them left...?

[Rebel]

If you don't have the military power to defend your own country, the butter just attracts predators.  What happened to the disarmed civilized Celts south of Hadrian's Wall when the legions that had protected them left...?

Not to get into semantics, but I thought those were Britons.  


NM, the Britons were Celtic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britons_%28historical%29

[obumazombie]

Not to get into semantics, but I thought those were Britons.  


NM, the Britons were Celtic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britons_%28historical%29

Wikipedia is part of the vast left wing conspiracy.