primitives discuss culinary schools

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11578925

Oh my.

I went to this campfire hoping to see the sparkling old dude, who knows this stuff, but the sparkling old dude's nowhere to be seen.  Perhaps he's sulking in a dark corner or something.

Firebrand Gary (2,450 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

Culinary school advice needed.

Hey Gang,

I love DU for reasons like this, no doubt I am sure many of you might have thoughts on this and I would really love to hear them. Well, I have decided to make a radical career change, in short its time to follow my heart and take a new journey. I have decided to follow my passion into the culinary arts.

I am at the beginning phase of narrowing down a school of choice. So far I am looking Le Cordon Bleu (Paris), C.I.A. Culinary Institute of America and F.C.I. French Culinary Institute (Chicago at Kings Kennedy). I really like what I see in the LCB Paris Grand Diploma program, the pastry program offers an opportunity to train with an M.O.F. and is a 9 month duration, which is perfect for me.

However before making my decision I want to get all the facts. Its important to me that I train with a well respected institute whose diploma will get me into any door in the culinary world. This is a big deal to me and on this adventure, I want the best!

If any of you have thoughts on one school vs the other, if you have friends or family that might have thoughts on this, please know that I would GREATLY appreciate your help.

franksolich got his culinary education at a truck stop in the Sandhills of Nebraska, when he was a teenager.

About two months of it was all one needed, to learn all about cooking, after which I moved on to learning all about the drive-in movie business.

grasswire (33,534 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

3. re: schools, keep in mind that some are diploma factories, apparently.....

.....and have graduated students with the promise of a career ahead but could not deliver on the promise. Some recent litigation comes to mind.

Ooops.

The random image generator just generated an image of the grasswire primitive, but I have no idea why.

What I'm "seeing" is an addled older woman dressed in four winter coats in the middle of summer, dragging a child's little red wagon behind her, full of stuff retrieved from garage sales.

She's slowly walking aimlessly around in a circle, monotonally droning ".....Christians awake!  The winter's gone!  The snows depart, the dead sleep on!"

I have no idea; the words are what I used in speech therapy a long time ago.

The random image generator sometimes gets, like, real random.

Anyway.

Firebrand Gary (2,450 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

15. It seems like many of them are.

I am really looking for the whole package, including the city and opportunity to work in a great kitchen afterwards. So strongly leaning towards Paris!

The defrocked warped primitive, she with the face like Hindenberg's, who's been banned from nursing for life:

Warpy (62,905 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

6. Take six months to work in a kitchen

It doesn't matter much what you do, you need to experience the heat, the stress, getting slammed by more patrons than usual, and the amount of backbreaking work it is.

If it gets into your blood and you love it, then consider a high priced culinary school.

However, you need to know what you're getting into.

The primitive who's full of beans:

TreasonousBastard (18,963 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

11. Do you have a community college with...

culinary courses near you?

I looked at a couple on your short list and saw the price (10 grand of which I'm sure is just the butter used in the pastry course...) and then found our local cc has several shorter pastry courses for a few hundred bucks each. The full menu for a foodie AAS degree is only a few thou, with training and job placement pretty good.

Considering the wages in the restaurant business, I just don't see the payback in the expensive places. I also don't see how much more you get from them vs. the cc and ojt in a decent restaurant.

nycfoodlover (1 post) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

20. Search for School

Hi Gary, I'm a graduate of The International Culinary Center formerly The French Culinary Institute in NYC. I looked at several other school and decided on The FCI because of their incredible reputation, great instructors and the location of the school. You can't beat being in NYC. The education I received in the kitchens was solid and I really took advantage of their career services department. They helped me land an internship while in school and really encouraged me to start getting involved with the industry as a student. This was really helpful to me because I'm also a career changer and was really nervous about getting a job in the field.
I definitely suggest visiting all of the schools on your list and if you can sit in on a class to get a feel for the school, the students there and the instructors.

[Chris_]

Warpy (62,905 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

6. Take six months to work in a kitchen

It doesn't matter much what you do, you need to experience the heat, the stress, getting slammed by more patrons than usual, and the amount of backbreaking work it is.

If it gets into your blood and you love it, then consider a high priced culinary school.

However, you need to know what you're getting into.

This is the best advice anyone who wants to go to "culinary school" can get.

It doesn't matter how fancy a dish is, you're going to be making fifty of them a night every night every week all year long.  It's a tedious, greasy, panicked mess every day.  You either love it or you don't, and God help you if you hate it because that $30,000 CIA education you financed at 7.5% is now worthless.

[Ballygrl]

WOW! I was just curious to see what the cost of these schools are, CIA costs almost $114,000! and that doesn't even include a room.

[Chris_]

WOW! I was just curious to see what the cost of these schools are, CIA costs almost $114,000!

Holy shit.

The last CIA grads I worked with paid about $30k for a two-year program, and this was nearly 15 years ago.  Aside from a mountain of debt, if you're petty enough you can address yourself as 'chef'.  I believe a 'master chef' is one that has completed school and apprenticed under another master chef for at least four years as a speciality.  Maybe that's where the extra moolah goes. 

Jesus Christ. 

[Ballygrl]

Holy shit.

The last CIA grads I worked with paid about $30k for a two-year program, and this was nearly 15 years ago.  Aside from a mountain of debt, if you're petty enough you can address yourself as 'chef'.  I believe a 'master chef' is one that has completed school and apprenticed under another master chef for at least four years as a speciality.  Maybe that's where the extra moolah goes. 

Jesus Christ.

Here's the fees for the NY Campus:

http://www.ciachef.edu/admissions/finaid/tuition_newyork.asp

[JakeStyle]

Pretty sure Stinky the Clown claims to hold a degree from CIA, he must be a 1%er.

[franksolich]

Pretty sure Stinky the Clown claims to hold a degree from CIA, he must be a 1%er.

I just inquired.

Yes, he is indeed a graduate of the Culinary Institute of America.

Stinky the Clown, principal and co-founder of Culinary Advisors, became a full-time consultant in 1980 after ten years in operations. He holds a professional degree from The Culinary Institute of America and a degree in hotel and restaurant management from Widener University. His operations background includes, in addition to a corporate staff support role, institutional management in the healthcare and B&I segments, commercial restaurant, and in-flight catering. As a design consultant, he has served a variety of clients in virtually all segments of the foodservice industry. Mr. Stinky the Clown is a past president of FCSI and a former board liaison to its Board of Examiners.

[JakeStyle]

 

[DumbAss Tanker]

I just inquired.

Yes, he is indeed a graduate of the Culinary Institute of America.

I'll bet nadin can top that.

 

[Chris_]

I'll bet nadin can top that.

 

She studied under Auguste Escoffier personally.

[franksolich]

I wonder if I'd actually met the sparkling old dude in person, during the 1970s, when his food-service company operated the cafeteria at a private college I first attended (before transferring to the University of Nebraska).

They provided us, as mentioned in another thread, five-star-French-restaurant-quality chow, and if I'd stayed at that private college, I would've graduated the size of the Las Vegas Leviathan.

But no, probably not, because the sparkling old dude's never been in Nebraska, and by the time I was in college, he was probably in corporate headquarters in upstate New York, a vice-president or something.

I recall, fondly, the head of food-service operations at that college, a hip trendy cool with-it older guy (at the time, franksolich considered people in their late 20s "old").  A nice guy; he used to sit out in the cafeteria with his two main assistants during the meal, taking comments from students. 

Because he was easy for me to "understand" (i.e., his body language was very expressive), and because he seemed to welcome it, we had many conversations when I was there.  But he looked Hanseatic German, not Italianate, so he probably wasn't the sparkling old dude.

[GOBUCKS]

The highest level of training any DUmpmonkey cook, including Squatting Mike, has ever reached:

[GOBUCKS]

Firebrand Gary (2,450 posts) 
I have decided to follow my passion into the culinary arts.

Actually, DUmpmonkey Firebrand Gary, we've heard it before.

grasswire  (1000+ posts)      Fri Mar-11-11 04:15 PM
Original message
I'm opening a pie shop.

[JakeStyle]

grasswire  (1000+ posts)      Fri Mar-11-11 04:15 PM
Original message
I'm opening a pie shop.

Damn, I was going to link to her "Coming Soon!" website, but it looks like she no longer owns the domain.  It was a great idea though, Grasswire! You should give it another shot.  Don't stop believing, hold on to that feeling!

[obumazombie]

The highest level of training any DUmpmonkey cook, including Squatting Mike, has ever reached:

That institution is quite legitimate. Owners are required to attend it. It's no joke. They have exacting standards.

[DumbAss Tanker]

The highest level of training any DUmpmonkey cook, including Squatting Mike, has ever reached:

I would gladly pay you Tuesday for culinary arts training today.

[franksolich]

I would gladly pay you Tuesday for culinary arts training today.

You know, I'd heard of Widener University before, but it was just a name to me until I nadined it.

That's where the sparkling old dude got a degree in restaurant and hotel management.

The football team has had recent success winning the MAC championship in 2007, the ECAC Southwest Bowl in 2006 and the ECAC South Atlantic Bowl in 2005. Its greatest success has been winning the NCAA Division III National Championship in 1977 and 1981 under long-time coach Bill Manlove and reaching the semi-finals in 1979, 1980, and 2000. Additionally, Widener football has won 17 MAC championships, the most of any team in the conference. Billy "White Shoes" Johnson played for Widener in the early 70s. He went on to be an all-pro NFL player and was selected to the NFL 75th Anniversary All-Time Team as well as the College Football Hall of Fame.

Starting out as the Bullock School for Boys in 1821, it looks to be a pretty fancy place.

Widener has five fraternities and four sororities. Approximately 12% of all undergraduates are members. Widener's Greek organizations include:

    * Fraternities: Alpha Tau Omega, Phi Delta Theta, Pi Lambda Phi, Tau Kappa Epsilon, and Theta Chi
    * Sororities: Alpha Kappa Alpha, Zeta Phi Beta, Delta Phi Epsilon, Phi Sigma Sigma, and Sigma Sigma Sigma

1981: School of Hotel and Restaurant Management opens (renamed School of Hospitality Management in 1996)

The Army ROTC program traces its origins back to when the university was originally a military college. Today, the Army ROTC program offers 2, 3 and 4-year scholarships as well as traditional instruction in military science. The program also sponsors students from the following local area schools: Villanova University, Penn State Abington, West Chester University, Cheyney University, Penn State Brandywine and Neumann College. About 25% of students in the program are nursing majors. The university produced more Army Nurses than any other school in the 2006-2007 academic year.

No information on how much it costs.

It's quite an impressive leap, from the organized-crime-ridden mean streets of Bridgeport, Connecticut to this, though, and kudos to the sparkling old dude for having done it.

[VivisMom]

This is the best advice anyone who wants to go to "culinary school" can get.

It doesn't matter how fancy a dish is, you're going to be making fifty of them a night every night every week all year long.  It's a tedious, greasy, panicked mess every day.  You either love it or you don't, and God help you if you hate it because that $30,000 CIA education you financed at 7.5% is now worthless.

Ain't it the truth?

Tony Bourdain (whom I know many people dislike, but I LOVE) even says in his books that culinary school is a waste of money. Sure, they can teach you fancy techniques and stuff, but they don't make you any more prepared for life in a restaurant kitchen than cooking in your kitchen at home. His advice is to work in a kitchen, see if you like it, then try and apprentice under someone you really admire.

[GOBUCKS]

Well, maybe you pay a hundred K, but you learn to chop onions really, really fast. Second year you learn to toss stuff in a skillet to turn it. Pretty cool, but stupid at the same time.

[franksolich]

Well, maybe you pay a hundred K, but you learn to chop onions really, really fast. Second year you learn to toss stuff in a skillet to turn it. Pretty cool, but stupid at the same time.

Uh huh.

And I learned all that at no cost--in fact, I was paid for my labors--at the truck stop in the middle of the Sandhills, back when I was 17 years old.  In two months.

But as I didn't care for the grease, I shortly thereafter left and went on to learn all about the drive-in movie business.

[obumazombie]

Uh huh.

And I learned all that at no cost--in fact, I was paid for my labors--at the truck stop in the middle of the Sandhills, back when I was 17 years old.  In two months.

But as I didn't care for the grease, I shortly thereafter left and went on to learn all about the drive-in movie business.

What did you learn, and why for the most part have we lost this piece of Americana ?

[vesta111]

Ain't it the truth?

Tony Bourdain (whom I know many people dislike, but I LOVE) even says in his books that culinary school is a waste of money. Sure, they can teach you fancy techniques and stuff, but they don't make you any more prepared for life in a restaurant kitchen than cooking in your kitchen at home. His advice is to work in a kitchen, see if you like it, then try and apprentice under someone you really admire.

Darn you forget the food service at hospitals, nursing homes and prisons.    


The jails and prisons with hundrends of people to feed 3 meals a day is not a cake walk for the cooks and managers.

Takes more then learning how to make an omelet for 20, have to figure out how many eggs and the price to make 300 of them, the cost of the utility to prepare them, the cost of spices , and the cost to deliver each meal to a prisioner 7
days a week for just one meal.

Some one has to make a menu to feed the populars, more to cooking then making the food.  Even a small county jail has to feed hundreds and is on a budget.

The State workers with education on preparing meals and how to feed a few hundred people need well educated workers that have credentials in management and graduated cooks themselves.

A small County Jail may have to have cooks and those with education far above the what spices to add to food, the knowledge of how to cook what they are told to do.   To work their way up the cooks need to get as many classes in  management as they can before they are turned loose to manage a budget of $150,000,000 a year or more.

Yup that is the cost to feed and house the criminals in just one County of each State.

Get an education in culentery from anywhere, keep going to get more and more cirtificates in health, and business.  Then apply for a State job, you may start at the bottom but keep going to classes and you may retire after 20 years with enough money to open your own business and know how to run it.

 
  

[franksolich]

Oh now, vesta dear, it's not that way everywhere.

Out here, since there's no need for big jails, several counties at a time will use just one jail, paying the county that has the jail motel rates for their own incarcerated.  It provides revenue for the county that has the jail, and saves the counties that don't have a jail, money.

And instead of cooks, that jail just calls the nearest pizza or hamburger place for take-out service.

[DumbAss Tanker]

So vesta, were you actually employed by the prison cafeteria, or was it just your work assignment?

 

[vesta111]

So vesta, were you actually employed by the prison cafeteria, or was it just your work assignment?

 

Dear Mr. Tanker. 

I an so proud of a family member that with so called dislecture went into this gung ho, graduated from Bostons finest Culinary school, while battling diabetes  from the age of 11 of the worse sort, and found a job with the State as a beginner in the kitchens of a prison.

Today with her continuing education she is in charge of the budget, ordering and supplying the food that costs us tax payers a million dollars a year to feed our prisoners 3 meals a day 24/& and  has to figure out how many turkeys to cook on the holidays, 25-40 ?

Years ago before she climbed the ladder she often spoke of worry about the prisoners that worked in the kitchen wandering about with chiefs knives,   Not a fun Job.

But she took advantage of any and all classes regardless of cost to keep up and move on up.   One hell of a woman with Guts to keep her eye on the future and not just sit and wait it out until retirement.

She started out as every other one did in the job, spent he own money to take classes, and advanced due to her ability.  She ignored and managed her own disability's, ----Screw them she was stronger them they and pushed forward. 

She is my Hero, a wonderful example to any person with disabilities that want to just give up.  All is possible when one works for it, keeps getting education regardless if it means one cannot get a new car, buy a new home or take a vacation.

Children will survive wearing BOBO's for shoes, clothes from Goodwill, all to know their parents need an education to enable them in the future.