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Offline franksolich

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primitive shows probable cause
« on: February 23, 2012, 08:37:28 AM »
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002340525

Oh my.

The predicaments the primitives get themselves into.

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SoutherDem (326 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

Probable Cause?

I had an unusual thing happen to me today and wanted to know if anyone has any thoughts.

Some background, I am the purchasing manager for a small culinary school, as such I often need to pick-up items for the school so I park behind the school where I also receive trucks (this gives me direct access to the kitchens), this area could be though of as a covered alley or tunnel. I have been parking in the area for the entire time we have been in the building which is almost two years, I have permission from the school’s dean and controller, our security company is aware of this, I do not block traffic and there are not any “No Parking” signs in the area, in fact no parking regulations at all other than do not block the alley and I am not the only tenant who parks behind the building. The area is considered private property owned by the landlord for use by the tenants.

Today as I was leaving the school a police office was passing through the alley/tunnel, he passed me without any clue he was questioning my “right” to be in the alley, but once I left the alley and was on a public road he pulled me over. When I questioned why I was being pulled over (I honestly had no clue, I knew I wasn’t speeding, I didn’t run a light or stop sign and my tag wasn’t expired), he answered “I wanted to make sure you had a reason to be in the alley”.

I replied I am the Purchasing Manager for the school, I park there everyday. He replied back “How do I know that?” I then said “Here is my I.D.” and handed it to him. The I.D. is an electronic key card which has my name, position, picture and the school logo, not something easily faked. He then asked for my drivers license, which I gave him. He then told me I could go and added “I had Probable Cause”. I guess he knew he really pissed me off, but adding that statement made me move from pissed off to boiling mad.

The officer was not polite at all, all of his questions were in the tone of a demand and never addressed me as sir or mister, even after he learned my name.

My questions are;
Was that really probable cause? It seems to me if a middle aged, white man, driving a Smart Car with Democratic bumper stickers (and one Richard Dawkins), with a vanity tag, parking at the most lighted part of a alley/tunnel on private property is probable cause, those who are of a different color or nationality hasn’t a chance. Let’s face it my car stands out in a crowd, no the car to commit a crime in.

Why not ask me while I was parked in the alley? There I would have understood, and most likely would have thanked him. In fact if I thought he had any question as to why I was parked there I would have waited for him to reach my car prepared to explain, it was just that after almost two years without question it never crossed my mind an officer would think anything was wrong. And, I will admit pulling me over on a public road in front of the school was embarrassing.

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sabrina 1 (24,152 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

1. Interesting that he told he had probable cause. I suppose he did, technically.

However, your question in the last paragraph is relevant, 'why didn't he question you before you left the alley?

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TheWraith (22,550 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

2. No, that's not probable cause.

Although technically the standard of proof for pulling someone over is actually "reasonable suspicion," not "probable cause."

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monmouth (18,238 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

3. Do you by any chance have an Obama bumper sticker on your car? I cannot think of any other reason. Also, regularly patrolling officers are used to seeing the same cars pretty much in the same place daily. He had a problem with something and since you had everything he wanted, you frustrated him. You kept your cool which was worse for him.

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SoCalMusicLover (50 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

4. You're Lucky He Didn't Shoot You

A cop doesn't really need any excuses, he's got a uniform, badge, and most importantly, a gun/taser.

Normally they just shoot you, and then worry about making up some justification afterwords.

Here in Orange County, CA, a cop shot a black man driving in a car with his children in the back seat. Turns out he was a respected Marine, father of 4, who was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. The sheriff is now in "cover up" mode, trying to find excuses the shooting was justified.

I'm sure before it's done, the cop will receive a medal, because they stick up for their own. Pigs are never wrong, ya know.

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jberryhill (22,359 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

7. "Normally they just shoot you"

Normally, uh, sure. There are like a zillion cops running around shooting people at random all day long.

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justiceischeap (7,253 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

9. You do realize that we only hear about the bad cops?

The majority of cops out there aren't hoping to shoot anyone, they hope for just the opposite. In 2008, there were reported to be 708,569 police officers employed in the US (I'd guess less now since so many municipalities can't afford a full squad). 173 cops were killed in the line of duty last year.

I'm not apologizing for the bad cops that are out there but when you look at the numbers, to claim all cops are bad cops is just wrong and perpetuates the idea that no cop can be trusted. Yes, some cops are bad, some cops make mistakes but I'd venture that most cops are good and just trying to do their jobs with inadequate funding and manpower working with a community of people that now distrust, or even hate them, because some within their ranks have done some really bad things.

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jberryhill (22,359 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

5. He didn't need "probable cause"

To pull you over, he needs a reasonable suspicion. I don't know anything about this town or this alley, or what may have seemed unusual about it. I own a Smart as well, and some people park them in odd spots.

He didn't pull you over in the alley since, it seems, you said the alley was private property.

On a reasonable suspicion, you can be briefly stopped and taken a look at to an extent sufficient to dispel the suspicion. You showed him a school ID providing some basis for you to have been in the alley, and a driver's license establishing you could drive the vehicle.

Maybe he saw something weird go down in that area sometime earlier. Who knows.

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limpyhobbler (1,236 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

6. Possibly he was just bored and had nothing better to do

So he pulled you over out of curiosity. That's pure speculation.

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REP (13,866 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

8. I have been pulled over for having a messy car.

My real crime? DWP (Driving While Poor). I had an older car that was beat to shit - it had been stolen from me and recovered, and it wasn't worth repairing the body damage - and yes, it was a little messy since I had my laundry in it since I had to go to a laundromat. Once the cop realized the black-haired driver he pulled over was white, insured, registered and disabled with no valid reason to stop me, he made up the "messy car" bull shit. I was often stopped - and let go with no citation - in that car (and in that town) for various crap reasons.

Now that I drive a pristine 'fancy' car that looks pretty much like it did when I bought it new four years ago, I don't get stopped - anywhere. (Knock wood) And it was just in one town; the cops in the other towns around here are actually very professional.

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hobbit709 (21,508 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

10. I got pulled over once "We had a report a vehicle matching this description was stolen"

Right- a 20 year old clunker was reported stolen. I'm willing to bet it had more to do with my long hair than anything else.
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Offline Skul

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Re: primitive shows probable cause
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2012, 09:08:28 AM »
Another typical cop-bashing story.
SouthernDUmb obviously did not understand the LEO's first responce.
He/she fails to comprehend that the place is probably a high crime area.
There have probably been several burglaries in the past.
The LEO probably waited in order to provide a bit more secure and safe place to make the stop.
The OP, southernDUmb is probably absolutely a DUmbass.
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Offline Karin

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Re: primitive shows probable cause
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2012, 09:50:12 AM »
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I am the purchasing manager for a small culinary school

Never mind the rest of your bullshit.  Is this one of those for-profit schools the DUmmies hate so much?  What are you doing working there?

Anybody buying that "messy car" story? 
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Offline jukin

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Re: primitive shows probable cause
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2012, 10:05:47 AM »
The probable cause was that you most likely are a faggot, look like one, and the cop was concerned about you stalking and raping some poor young boy. I think the cop did the right thing.
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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: primitive shows probable cause
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2012, 01:22:21 PM »
A culinary school? WTF is a "Smart" car? Hell, just his bumper stickers would get him pulled over around here!

I have two bumper stickers. One says "Stop the Spending NOW!, the other says "Support Your Local Sheriff!" I never get pulled over unless it's one of my Buds wantin' to shoot the breeze! Wonder why?

Idiot!

Anyone sportin' an O'bummer sticker needs to be shot!
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Offline miskie

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Re: primitive shows probable cause
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2012, 02:06:10 PM »
Q)
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WTF is a "Smart" car?

A) A golf cart that is just big enough to be street legal.


http://www.smartusa.com/smart-center/

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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: primitive shows probable cause
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2012, 02:37:10 PM »
Quote from: miskie on February 23, 2012, 02:06:10 PM
Q)
A) A golf cart that is just big enough to be street legal.


http://www.smartusa.com/smart-center/



Good grief!!! It's a ****in' roller skate!
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Offline Chris_

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Re: primitive shows probable cause
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2012, 02:43:12 PM »
Someone at work has one of those.  I wish I could say it's a company car, but it isn't.
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Re: primitive shows probable cause
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2012, 03:35:53 PM »
Quote from: AllosaursRus on February 23, 2012, 02:37:10 PM
Good grief!!! It's a ****in' roller skate!

After the collision, they can bury you in it.
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Offline thundley4

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Re: primitive shows probable cause
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2012, 03:39:16 PM »
I could see using one of those Smart cars in some larger factories.  When the Firestone plant was still open here, foremen and other bigshots drove around in golf carts while others had to ride bicycles.
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Offline Rugnuts

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Re: primitive shows probable cause
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2012, 03:42:33 PM »
Quote from: thundley4 on February 23, 2012, 03:39:16 PM
I could see using one of those Smart cars in some larger factories.

and on aircraft carriers
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Offline BEG

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Re: primitive shows probable cause
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2012, 03:45:48 PM »
Everyone is out to get you DUmmies, don't forget it!
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Offline FiddyBeowulf

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Re: primitive shows probable cause
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2012, 03:48:53 PM »
Quote from: AllosaursRus on February 23, 2012, 02:37:10 PM
Good grief!!! It's a ****in' roller skate!

I was thinking more like this.

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