Author Topic: Pokes holes in this (longish) essay about Declarations of War  (Read 2516 times)

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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Pokes holes in this (longish) essay about Declarations of War
« on: February 22, 2012, 04:15:15 PM »
I suspect DAT will be along in short order to savage it mercilessly:



A recent broadcast of [name] touched on the fact that congress has not issued a formal declaration of war since the Second World War. There is considerable debate over the extent of the president’s powers with regards to committing the armed forces of the United States. That debate centers on the constitutional provision that only congress may declare war. While the citation is correct the interpretation seems lacking. The more stringent interpreters claim that the president cannot commit the armed forces of the United States to combat unless congress has first blessed the action through a specifically-worded declaration of war; an “Authorization for the Use of Force” having been deemed insufficient.

Worse, there are those who make more hysteria-based cries of “Treason!” This is this school of thought that needs to be confronted not only for the danger of inviting the enemies of the US to act-out against a slow-moving US national security apparatus but for the domestic discontent it seeks to manufacture. To falsely claim a president is treasonous is to incite unrest of the worst sort.

Whether or not a given conflict is truly in the best interests of the US is always debatable and it ought to be vigorously debated by any people who wish to remain free and promote freedom but to claim the proper authority of the chief executive is treasonous demands firm resistance.

First, as a matter of foundation-laying, Article 2 of the Constitution names the president and the president alone as the Commander in Chief of the army and navy of the United States. This fact may be so obvious that it seems pointless to recite but it has to be asked what exactly that means in practical terms.

To imply any Commander-in-Chief is hidebound to seek the approval of an overly politicized committee such as congress for every move or commitment of forces is to neuter the term of all relevancies. Either the commander commands or he is not the commander and is merely an administrator. The founders noted and rejected the history of the Roman mechanism of selecting two concurrently presiding Consuls to divide and balance military power in the name of domestic liberty. If two presidents were deemed an unfitting scheme for checking executive power in the US republic how much more so they rejected the notion that 435 professional squabblers serving as the gatekeepers.

In fact, the Federalist rejected the notion of tying the president’s hands, as Federalist Paper, No. 23 asserts:

The authorities essential to the common defense are these: to raise armies; to build and equip fleets; to prescribe rules for the government of both; to direct their operations; to provide for their support. These powers ought to exist without limitation, because it is impossible to foresee or define the extent and variety of national exigencies, and the correspondent extent and variety of the means which may be necessary to satisfy them. The circumstances that endanger the safety of nations are infinite, and for this reason no constitutional shackles can wisely be imposed on the power to which the care of it is committed.

The role of congress in guarding against a rogue military or rogue chief executive are secured in Article 1, Section 8 where congress alone can set appropriations for the size and nature of the armed forces and then, never for more than 2 years in advance. As Madison stated, "The sword is in the hands of the British king; the purse is in the hands of the Parliament. It is so in America, as far as any analogy can exist."

If congress believes the military and/or Chief Commander, grow too restive they are free to not fund as many battalion or aircraft carriers as they believe are necessary to deprive the would-be usurpers of the material power to achieve their schemes. If congress believes a conflict is ill-advised it is free to decline all supplemental appropriations. All conflicts require additional expenditures for the logistics, payroll and incidentals involved. The mere act of not acting to fund such things is all the congressional oversight required and it is exactly the extent of the oversight envisioned by the founders. Each time congress does fund the cost incurred during an armed conflict it provides its tacit approval.

Since 9/11/01 the fact that dangers erupt suddenly and severely cannot be ignored and it is just this sort of calamity the federalist anticipated, if not in exacting terms, at least in general nature. While there were no airliners to hijack to be used as missiles the founders understood threats emerge without warning and they wanted a vigorous CINC able to engage such threats.

“Well of course the president can interdict imminent threats,” those contending for declarations-of-war-only will admit; but in so doing they concede the entirety of their argument. The constitution does not contain a “except in case of imminent threat” clause. If their preferred constitutional reading is to be taken at their word and on the strict terms based on their understanding of the letter of Article 1, Section 8, they assume the indictment they would assign to others.

Add to this the fact that despite the horrors of 9/11/01 a full 35-percent of Democrats believed a sitting US president either allowed the attacks to occur despite prior knowledge or actually staged the attacks in an elaborate conspiracy to justify foreign wars of aggression analogous to Hitler’s burning of the Reichstag. That the nation’s security should ever be subordinated to a faction that must curry favor from such a significant portion of its base of delusional voters is shocking.

Worse, such a mistaken interpretation would submit all evidence—and with it all sources and methods—of  impending threats to the very same congress where members of the House and Senate have entered into unilateral agreements with communist regimes (John Kerry, Nicaragua, 1985) or made publicity tours to erstwhile belligerents (Jim McDermott, Iraq, 2003) or outright lobbied on behalf of hostile governments (Ted Kennedy, USSR, 1983) all in the name of cynically stunting the rightful authority of presidents who were in the wrong political party for their tastes. This too was foreseen by the founders as the schoolmaster that is History had instructed them time and again that such things were inevitable.

This well-intended but misguided view of declarations of war also entices a president seeking to avoid factional bickering or the compromising of assets to wait until distant threats become imminent threats; a game of timing that cannot be permitted as the securing the lives of innocent Americans from violent threats is the first duty of instituted government. No imagining of constitutional intent demands American blood be first spilled. We are not required to see our cities to burn simply to prove honest stewards of national security are also lawful stewards.

There are three very prominent examples of presidents acting to confront threats to the United States absent congressional declarations of war and each example brings unique factors to the discussion.

The first example is the war fought against the Barbary Pirates. In this foreign war congress stated it did not need to declare war because war was first declared against the US. What is more telling was the nature of this declaration by the Pasha of Tripoli: the flagpole in front of the US consulate was cut down. If a mere diplomatic affront was sufficient casus belli to the mind of congress then how much more so the unending series of violent assaults suffered by the US at the hands of violent Islamists and Marxists when the lives of thousands have been stolen from us.

Those who claim deploying federal forces absent a declaration of war is unconstitutional or treasonous might want to petition for a posthumous impeachment and trial of George Washington for his actions during the Whiskey Rebellion. Yes, the father of our nation, the hero of the revolution to free us from tyranny and the American Cincinnatus mounted his horse and rode out with federal troops in tow to bring force of military arms to bear on American citizens on American soil…without congressional approval. Either we damn Washington as a hypocrite and a traitor or we admit his understandings of his authorities are nearer to the mark.

Lastly is the modern example of the Cuban missile crisis. In that crisis the president deployed all manner of US military assets to prepare for a war as well as engage in actual acts of war when the US navy blockaded Cuba. If the faulty interpretation of the declaration of war provision were assumed the actions to prevent a global war would have defaulted in that very same war. If President Kennedy had not imposed a blockade the Soviets would have gained their nuclear foothold within first-strike distance of the US unchallenged and we would have had no ability to reverse their action without invasion. If the overly-strict view were accepted congress would have declared war leaving the Soviets no opportunity to withdraw.

And to those who assert the current mechanism for congressional consent, the Authorization for the Use of Military Force (AUMF) is insufficient to those who would safeguard liberty it should stated that an AUMF better serves their own purposes.

When the United States is in a formal state of war the powers conferred upon the executive branch are near limitless. The US Code is written in such a manner, particularly in the shadow of modern nuclear reality that the president may, without prior congressional consent seize communication, transportation and industrial assets. Domestic “spying” that would cause even the most ardent supporters of the Patriot Act to blush may proceed unchallenged. Persons of foreign descent, if related to the belligerent nation, may be deported or interned at the president’s unilateral determination. Food, fuel and other vital commodities can be rationed.

Add to these facts that the current Global War on Terrorism entails conflict with an enemy that is by definition a non-state actor (one of the many qualities that make them unlawful combatants). There is no national command structure to topple, no enemy capital to seize. The enemy hides in the cities of non-belligerents and allies. There can be no formal declaration of war because there is no foreign government against whom we can declare peace or victory. Not only does it make it impossible for a declaration of war to expire it invites perfidy by those who would use terrorists as proxies. A president that cannot respond militarily to attacks must rely solely on civil policing agencies that are then constitutionally required to extend to all attackers the rules of Miranda rights, probable cause, chains of evidence, discovery of sources and methods, appeals, public trial, opposing counsel, extradition (assuming such agreements exists), etc. or else we ask civil law enforcement to set aside the guarantees we need to hold closest to our hearts.

In contrast, to level the most powerful military of human history requires a threshold to be crossed that cannot go unnoticed or unexamined. Unlike law enforcement that can serve warrants in the dead of night, once the troops move forward all parties are on notice whether they would safeguard our liberties or tear them down. Even commandos and stealth drones leave in their wake the undeniable markings of their form and function. It takes much to awaken the sleeping giant but once the giant awakens its footfalls are unmistakable. To invoke the US armed forces is to admit the danger exceeds the capabilities of diplomats and law enforcement, no matter how determined and professional those agencies may be. It is impossible to deploy the US military without subsequently asking if this is indeed the means for contending with a perceived threat; and that scrutiny alone is the single greatest guarantee of our freedom from within but let us not then imperil our freedoms from without by imposing impractical and unfounded restrictions.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Pokes holes in this (longish) essay about Declarations of War
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2012, 04:39:40 PM »
The Constitution wasn't even ten years old when we got in an undeclared naval war with France, the guys who actually wrote it didn't mount a decent challenge to any excesses of Executive authority then.

Was this one of Judge Napolitano's broadcasts?  He is completely out to lunch on some of his Constitutional interpretations.
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Offline Eupher

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Re: Pokes holes in this (longish) essay about Declarations of War
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2012, 04:46:09 PM »
It sounds like one of the Bunny's essays following said "recent broadcast by [name]".

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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Pokes holes in this (longish) essay about Declarations of War
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2012, 05:07:20 PM »
Was this one of Judge Napolitano's broadcasts?  He is completely out to lunch on some of his Constitutional interpretations.

Local radio host called "Scooter" McGee was launching into a spittle-flecked tirade on a different show I listen to on the way home. Alas, their resident lawyer left many of the assertions unchallenged.

Is my general sense of history and POTUS authorities within the ballpark? It's already too long and I fear I had to pare everything past the bone.
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Offline Eupher

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Re: Pokes holes in this (longish) essay about Declarations of War
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2012, 07:51:56 AM »
Snugs, my 0.02 zlotys -

You wrote an eloquent essay. I can't argue the basic premises, except for the last paragraph.

The U.S. military, in most recent years especially, is a political pawn to be expended when the politicians - in particular the current administration - decide it's best to throw them under the proverbial bus.

The tone of the last paragraph is how you perceive the U.S. military should be viewed -- not as it really is today.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Pokes holes in this (longish) essay about Declarations of War
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2012, 09:04:44 AM »
Is my general sense of history and POTUS authorities within the ballpark? It's already too long and I fear I had to pare everything past the bone.

In general it's pretty good, however in one respect you are a wee bit off track"

Quote
...In fact, the Federalist rejected the notion of tying the president’s hands, as Federalist Paper, No. 23 asserts:

The authorities essential to the common defense are these: to raise armies; to build and equip fleets; to prescribe rules for the government of both; to direct their operations; to provide for their support. These powers ought to exist without limitation, because it is impossible to foresee or define the extent and variety of national exigencies, and the correspondent extent and variety of the means which may be necessary to satisfy them. The circumstances that endanger the safety of nations are infinite, and for this reason no constitutional shackles can wisely be imposed on the power to which the care of it is committed...

The powers in bold are actually allocated to Congress in the Constitution, not the Executive; the President has the power as CINC to direct the employment of them, but everything else is put in the hands of Congress.  Even the power to regulate the forces is actually something Congress gave the service secretaries by statute, not an inherent power of the office.  While these Congressional powers clearly require raising revenue even in the absence of any emergency, and therefore make sense in that context, the clear effect has been to avoid the Roman model of the Executive both paying and directing the armed forces, which historically put him in the position of being able to seize control from the Senate and Forum at will.  The result IS a divided control of the forces, but not like the Roman consuls who were co-equal executive officials.  Under the Constitution, there is definitely only one Executive, but unbounded control of the armed forces has been withheld from him.   
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Pokes holes in this (longish) essay about Declarations of War
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2012, 12:43:59 PM »
Thank-you, all.

I took note of your suggestions and revised the essay before sending it off.

I try to lay out as clear a narrative as possible but what you hear in your own head is not what others read.

Your comments are vital to overcoming these natural tendencies.

Thanks again.
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Offline obumazombie

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Re: Pokes holes in this (longish) essay about Declarations of War
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2012, 11:44:28 AM »
There is a clear separation, and a less clear overlap. We now have an all volunteer force, so it becomes even more necessary to use greater prudence in deploying forces. Where there is no clear and compelling reason or national interest, our soldiers should not be exposed to unnecessary dangers, or put in harms way. If our forces are deployed in such a manner as to be inserted into the middle of hostilities and live fire where they either will be shot at, or forced to shoot or otherwise use of deadly force, that process should not be done willy nilly, like owebuma is currently doing. He should open those types of deployments to congressional oversight. If he does not, then there should be and is a remedy.
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Re: Pokes holes in this (longish) essay about Declarations of War
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2012, 04:47:36 PM »
OZ,

What prompted me to invite you into this thread was a statement by you that sending troops to war/combat without a formal declaration of war by the congress was an impeachable offense.

Your post above seems to be more of a policy preference. The president's power to commnad troops is not contingent upon whether or not ours is a conscript army or a strictly professional army or troop levels vs. deployment committments.

Just sayin'
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Offline obumazombie

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Re: Pokes holes in this (longish) essay about Declarations of War
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2012, 07:01:14 PM »
I don't doubt that the CIC can command troops. The reason I brought up the all volunteer force is, in prior wars with the draft, the nation was already at war. The all volunteer force was more of a deterrent against the cold war. It is quite unacceptable to me, and in my opinion unconstitutional to order troops into a warzone in an undeclared war. If you want and need troops there, persuade congress to back you. There is already a 90 day limit to the Presidents CIC power, so that is a constitutional precedent. I would add, in addition to that, reckless and needless positioning of troops into warzones would not need to meet the 90 day standard. It is in congress's purview to declare war.
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Offline rich_t

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Re: Pokes holes in this (longish) essay about Declarations of War
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2012, 07:20:25 PM »
I don't doubt that the CIC can command troops. The reason I brought up the all volunteer force is, in prior wars with the draft, the nation was already at war. The all volunteer force was more of a deterrent against the cold war. It is quite unacceptable to me, and in my opinion unconstitutional to order troops into a warzone in an undeclared war. If you want and need troops there, persuade congress to back you. There is already a 90 day limit to the Presidents CIC power, so that is a constitutional precedent. I would add, in addition to that, reckless and needless positioning of troops into warzones would not need to meet the 90 day standard. It is in congress's purview to declare war.

Can you show me where the Constitution specifies in what form a formal Declaration of War is required to look like?

It can be and has been argued that when Congress approves the funds, they have approved/declared support of the "war".
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Re: Pokes holes in this (longish) essay about Declarations of War
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2012, 07:30:51 PM »
article 1 section 8,
 And...Declaration of War
This author talks about Libya, but the same principles would apply to anywhere our troops would be attacked, ie, any war zone.
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Offline rich_t

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Re: Pokes holes in this (longish) essay about Declarations of War
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2012, 07:36:26 PM »
I am well aware of Art 1 Sec 8.

Where does it specify in what form Congress is required to follow to make it a "formal" declaration?

This has been a topic of debate on another forum I frequent.  Nobody has been able to provide the answer yet.

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Re: Pokes holes in this (longish) essay about Declarations of War
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2012, 07:40:08 PM »
I am well aware of Art 1 Sec 8.

Where does it specify in what form Congress is required to follow to make it a "formal" declaration?

This has been a topic of debate on another forum I frequent.  Nobody has been able to provide the answer yet.



The formality wouldn't apply to the President committing the troops to an undeclared war. This in effect, and in reality is a declaration of war. Some would say money has already been allocated, yes, I would agree, but those money allocations were before owebuma started committing our troops to other, undeclared war, warzones. By the way, did you read the linked article ?
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Offline rich_t

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Re: Pokes holes in this (longish) essay about Declarations of War
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2012, 08:03:42 PM »
The formality wouldn't apply to the President committing the troops to an undeclared war. This in effect, and in reality is a declaration of war. Some would say money has already been allocated, yes, I would agree, but those money allocations were before owebuma started committing our troops to other, undeclared war, warzones. By the way, did you read the linked article ?

For what it's worth, I did check out your embedded link.

Which has nothing to do with my initial question.

Quote
Can you show me where the Constitution specifies in what form a formal Declaration of War is required to look like?

You seem to be concentrating on Obama committing a very small handful of troops to Libya.  I am more interested in the larger scope of the "formal declaration of war" topic.
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Re: Pokes holes in this (longish) essay about Declarations of War
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2012, 08:09:53 PM »
As I contend the WPR is an unconstitutional infringement on the constitutional authorities of the presidency the center contention of the FP article leaves me a little cold. A congressionally passed law cannot inhibit the constitutionally bestowed powers of any office; only a constitutional amendment will satisfy (case in point: presidential term limits).

That the FP article dismisses the work of John Yoo and others as, "apologists for George W. Bush-era illegalities" without actually addressing Yoo et al's writings. This is known as argument by assertion and considering the fact Yoo proactively addressed the FP article's contention--as did I in my OP--I consider this akin to what we in the army term "weak sauce." For a publication like FP that's pretty damned disappointing to see them out-boxed by a mere timid woodland creature.

However, if congress wants to impeach Obama over Libya they are certainly free to try.

This is NOT a defense of Obama or his toying with the lives of US military personnel to embolden his own international reputation. I only seek to defend the necessary and proper powers of the office that will long outlive Obama.
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Re: Pokes holes in this (longish) essay about Declarations of War
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2012, 08:11:38 PM »
Yes, I agree, I am concentrating on the unconstitutional actions of owebuma. I don't have a lot of interest in the formal declaration portion of the discussion.
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Re: Pokes holes in this (longish) essay about Declarations of War
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2012, 08:28:41 PM »
Yes, I agree, I am concentrating on the unconstitutional actions of owebuma. I don't have a lot of interest in the formal declaration portion of the discussion.

But you are basing your entire argument on the assertion that it is an illegal war.

What by your definition, is an illegal war?



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Re: Pokes holes in this (longish) essay about Declarations of War
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2012, 08:33:39 PM »
Yes, I agree, I am concentrating on the unconstitutional actions of owebuma. I don't have a lot of interest in the formal declaration portion of the discussion.

What unconstitutional actions?

If a president has the power to commit US armed forces to military action then Libya--no matter how ill-advised and cynically self-serving--would still be legal.

As rich_t is hinting at: there is no specific formula for a DoW in the COTUS and as I noted a formal DoW would bestow powers to the presidency that would actually make matters far worse than any grievance we might bring against either Obama or his predecessor. As the hazards of a nation are perpetual we would be in an unending state of war with the equivalent of dictatorial powers in the hand of the presidency. If the interpretation of the FP author were taken at face value all it would take would be for some hostile force to make occassional attacks every so often to keep the US at war and the president wielding the power to detain, depart, seize, commandeer,nationalize, etc etc etc without ANY congressional interference or oversight.

I assume you would find this unacceptable.

I understand the fury Obama's treating US troops and the presidency as his personal playthings can engender. I get it; but let's not invent cures that are worse than the disease.
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Re: Pokes holes in this (longish) essay about Declarations of War
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2012, 09:37:51 PM »
But you are basing your entire argument on the assertion that it is an illegal war.

What by your definition, is an illegal war?





I'm not sure if I said illegal war, if I did, that's not what I meant. What I meant was unconstitutional. The wars extant at the time of owebuma's inauguration are not in question. The new, unbudgeted, undeclared wars that owebuma has committed our troops to by deploying them to warzones without congressional approval. That is what I am talking about.
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