Youreapeein wants to know why we don't want to go broke like him

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Prophet 451 (6,465 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
 
European-style welfare states are lovely!
Can someone explain to me why so many Americans seem to think a "European-style welfare state" is such a terrible thing? They seem to think that it's somehow cheating if there's no chance of someone starving. I live in a European-style welfare state here in England (at least, until the ConDems dismantle it but that's a seperate rant) and here's a couple of noteworthy things about it. Now, different European nations do things slightly differently but I'm English so I'm doing this about England.

- Healthcare is free at point of delivery. It's funded through general taxation. There is no such thing as a medical bankruptcy here. No-one ever has to skip healthcare for the sake of cost. There's a small fee for filling a prescription (about $15) that's mainly designed to stop you bugging your doctor with stupid stuff that only needs a couple of asprin but the poor, old and disabled are exempt from that. Is the NHS perfect? Hell no but it is better than the US system. We still have private insurers here and people still use them for all kinds of reasons. Some like luxury hospitals, some want to skip waiting lists (or, as they should be called, availability lists), some just want the status symbol but because the NHS provides a bottom level of service, private insurers have to offer a better service at a decent price. I always thought that was the essence of capitalism.

- Very few people starve or become homeless because they can't find a job. The system we have set up here keeps paying you unemployment benefits for as long as you're honestly looking for a job. Doesn't matter if it takes six months or five years, if you're making an honest effort to find work, you get unemployment benefits (which aren't much but enough to keep body and soul together). If the only work you can find pays a pittance, the system will make up the difference between that and unemployment benefits.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002218393

Portgual, Greece, Spain, Hungary, Italy, Ireland...

Any of these ring a bell?

[Rebel]

Good God, the stupid in that thread is STRONG!

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Good God, the stupid in that thread is STRONG!

The Paradox of Liberalism: irresistible stupidity meets immoveable welfare slacker

[Skul]

Prophet 451 (6,465 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
 
European-style welfare states are lovely! Says it all, right there.
Can someone explain to me why so many Americans seem to think a "European-style welfare state" is such a terrible thing? Because most of us believe in self-relience and independence They seem to think that it's somehow cheating if there's no chance of someone starving. Somebody spike your tea? I live in a European-style welfare state here in England (at least, until the ConDems dismantle it but that's a seperate rant) and here's a couple of noteworthy things about it. Now, different European nations do things slightly differently but I'm English so I'm doing this about England.

- Healthcare is free at point of delivery. It's funded through general heavy taxation. There is no such thing as a medical bankruptcy here. Key word is "medical", not governmental. No-one ever has to skip healthcare for the sake of cost. There's a small fee for filling a prescription (about $15) that's mainly designed to stop you bugging your doctor with stupid stuff that only needs a couple of asprin but the poor, old and disabled are exempt from that. Is the NHS perfect? Hell no but it is better than the US system. No it"s not. We still have private insurers here and people still use them for all kinds of reasons. Some like luxury hospitals, some want to skip waiting lists (or, as they should be called, availability lists), (death panels? some just want the status symbol but because the NHS provides a bottom level of service, private insurers have to offer a better service at a decent price. I always thought that was the essence of capitalism.

- Very few people starve or become homeless because they can't won't find a job. The system we have set up here keeps paying you unemployment benefits for as long as you're honestly looking for a job. Key word here is "honestly". Doesn't matter if it takes six months or five years, if you're making an honest Yesssss. effort to find work, you get unemployment benefits (which aren't much but enough to keep body and soul together). If the only work you can find pays a pittance, the system will make up the difference between that and unemployment benefits.

Just what we need.
Another socialist Yerapeein' wanting to drag us into the same cesspool they're already in.

[Karin]

CTyankee (26,504 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

7. Americans ignorance about Europe is mind blowing!

The RW has repeated and repeated its tirade against "socialism" and the people who believe it don't know what it is they're believing. It's some kind of giant myth.

The OP was right in saying that Americans believe that socialism is "cheating." That was the exact word that I heard from the lady who cut my hair down at Supercuts when I told her about the free child care and support of women when they have their babies, particularly in Sweden, with generous maternity leave benefits. She looked shocked and then said "That's CHEATING!"
I thought it was an odd thing to say at the time...who did she think was cheating whom? My guess is that she thought women were scamming the system. This poor woman was working her tail off for practically slave wages ($12 for a simple cut, at the senior citizen level). I truly don't know how she can even afford to work, and she works a 6 day week...

Well you can always leave her a generous tip.  I'm not holding my breath.  Maybe your hairdresser gets satisfaction from performing her skill and standing on her own two feet.  She doesn't wish to lay about while others work for her upkeep. 

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

...free child care and support of women when they have their babies...

"Free"?

Not the most literate sort, these liberals.

[Skul]

Here''s somebody just plain pulling lies out of thin air.

Response to Prophet 451 (Original post)
Wed Jan 25, 2012, 08:54 AM
izquierdista (10,839 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

6. They think Europe is still bombed out buildings and starving people No we don't. You're a DUmbass.

Face it, since 1980 when American families had to have TWO breadwinners to pay the bills because of Reaganomics gross inflation under Carter, no one has had time to visit Europe and see for themselves.

-They have NO idea that the trains there run faster than you can drive on an American Interstate. Sorry, we know that.
-They have NO idea that the stores are stocked just as well as American stores. We know that, too.
-They have NO idea that you can fly around without a pre-boarding colonoscopy. Don't bet the farm on that one, DUmbass.
-They have NO idea that you can live just fine without owning a car. Yes we do.
-They have NO idea that wine costs the same as soda pop and that you can have it for lunch. Wonderful, then they return to work...drunk.
-They have NO idea that you can get an education without having to mortgage your future. Can do that here, too.

The one thing that Americans can experience without going to Europe is being herded with the flow of traffic through an IKEA warehouse and having some cheap and tasty Swedish meatballs at the end.  No thanks.

Alphabet soup must live on a meta-dimension with Nads.

[Aristotelian]

Prophet 451 (6,465 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

European-style welfare states are lovely!

Can someone explain to me why so many Americans seem to think a "European-style welfare state" is such a terrible thing? They seem to think that it's somehow cheating if there's no chance of someone starving. I live in a European-style welfare state here in England (at least, until the ConDems dismantle it but that's a seperate rant) and here's a couple of noteworthy things about it. Now, different European nations do things slightly differently but I'm English so I'm doing this about England.

I dearly love my country, and firmly believe that I live in the greatest country the world has ever know (and realise than many in other countries believe the same thing)...but it's blatently obvious that our welfare and health-care systems are unfit for purpose. Barely a day goes past without more evidence of welfare dependency blighting large swathes of the population...and at the most basic level, our current government spending is utterly unaffordable.

The highlighted above shows that we are waking up to this as a country, such that even with the Liberal Democrats in the coalition government we're able to make steps back towards sanity...just a pity that some Americans (DUmmies) want to take one of the world's other great countries down the same route.

The best thing that can be said about the N.H.S. is that it isn't as bad as the Canadian system, and one can choose to go to a private doctor and ignore the whole thing.

[GOBUCKS]

It's true that some of the trains in Europe run faster than you can drive on an interstate.

The problem is when they stop, you're still in Europe.

[Tucker]

Prophet 451 (6,465 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
 
 I live in a European-style welfare state here in England (at least, until the ConDems dismantle it but that's a seperate rant)

Lifetime welfare benefits in the UK is coming to an end. They are imposing a limit and putting your lazy as to work.

No work, no eat.

[franksolich]

You know, I've always been distrustful of this "Europe is the Future" bandwagon.

I recall on freerepublic about eight or nine years ago, that the European members there (along with the primitives on Skins's island) were enthralled that the euro was going up, up, up, up, up, while the dollar was declining.

I said it was a temporary phenomenon.  I got yelled at a lot by the Europeans there.

Well, who was right?

And kudos to the British, the Norwegians, and the Swiss, who never adopted the euro.

[LC EFA]

Gotta love the left.

It's all about the freebies, not the freedoms.

You could put these people in a prison camp and they'd be perfectly happy provided it was all "free" and no one had a single rouble more than them everyone was equal.

They'd rather run the gauntlet of a filthy, inefficient, inconvienant and crime riddled public transport system than they would the ability to own and operate their own transport.

They prefer to be herded like cattle and remain in melancholy mediocrity rather than have the ability to chose their own path and accept that a wrong turn will lead to failure, but a right turn will lead to wealth, success and happiness.

Thanks but no thanks.

[Vagabond]

The UK is just one of the dominoes.  Tony Blair did followed policies similar to Clinton and Bush with regards to fiscal and monetary policy.  If (when?) Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, or Ireland default, one of the effects will certainly be the United Kingdom's insolvency.  They may be a little ahead of France when the French banks fail or they may last a day more, but the contagion certainly gets them. 

Lady Thatcher was absolutely correct about the effects of socialism.  The Liberals first taxed the rich until that could no longer work and then sacrificed the Pounds position as the world reserve currency.  Now they have basically spent as much of their children's money as they possibly can.  They have no real idea what to do now. 

They do know they have a large segment of the population that feels entitled to everything that anyone ever produced.  They probably know what will happen when the tribute stops showing up in the thugs bank accounts.  Somewhere, the Barbary Pirates are laughing their collective ass off.

Sadly, our liberals, Republican and Democrat alike, are pretty much in the exact same boat.