Commie white_wolf wishes

[Carl]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002187241

white_wolf (3,590 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore


 I wish people would quit attacking "English" majors.
Last edited Thu Jan 19, 2012, 02:38 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

I put English in quotes because this thread does not apply to only English majors. Rather, it applies to any major that people attack as being worthless, rather it be English, history, philosophy, etc. I see so many people attacking these majors saying they are a waste of a degree and people who get them deserve to be poor if they can't find a job.

What people don't seem to realize is we need English majors, who else is going to teach our kids to read and write correctly? The same applies to history, if you don't know the mistakes of the past then you are going to repeat them. Philosophy is the one that gets attacked the most, but I think we need philosophers, hell I think our high schools should require philosophy courses, it would be good for students to learn to question and think critically.

What people don't seem to understand is our society owes a lot more to English majors and other educators than we do to CEOs. Educators are the real job creators, not CEOs.

Given the intelligence of DUmp teachers (Pammy) I think it proves to be a waste.

Tierra_y_Libertad (33,051 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

3. I majored in History.

I've never regretted it. It didn't land me a job directly but it did help having a degree.

On the bright side, I was able to spurn the pocket protectors, brief-cases, and bow ties favored by the business majors. 

Zorra (14,687 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

48. That's my story also. Never regretted

majoring in history.

My degree was pivotal in helping me realize that there are out of the box opportunities, and that led to lots of fun and still leads to lots of fun.

In other words,no job so I smoke weed all day.

lapislzi (3,914 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

4. Beleaguered art history major checking in

History is also told through cultural artefacts. Visual arts tell the human story. We need people to interpret the history through artefacts, otherwise they are no more than pretty (or unintelligible) objects.

Want fries with that?

Skidmore (26,419 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

6. I fully agree, but we need English majors

who go into our schools and teach our children proper spelling, punctuation, and grammar along with good writing skills. There needs to be an expectation for performance. 

Let them fix the DUmp first.

bluestateguy (37,545 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

7. I partially agree

At least at the undergraduate level you are right.

As for graduate degrees in the humanities, well there are just no living wage jobs that require that anymore. Not more than a very few, anyway. Even professors of the humanities will say the same thing. 

Ahh,what those of us sane call reality.

rfranklin (11,091 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

12. As an English major, I agree that it is the lack of economic opportunity...

that has put the bad rap on "English majors."

I worked for many years in the publishing industry. Most publishers of newspapers and magazines consider the editorial portion of the magazine "that gray stuff that goes between the ads." So that's about the level of respect you get.

virgdem (1,310 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

80. Another English Major totally agrees..

I graduated in the mid-70's, when jobs for English Majors and other Humanities disciplines declined, due in part to a recession at the time. The demand for Humanities/Arts Majors never rebounded and those of us did what we could to find decent employment that paid more than minimum wage. I always wished that I could do Math, but I'm a Math dummy, so that was never possible.

aikoaiko (12,927 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

9. If you spend 100K+ on a degree with few job prospects even before the recession and then complain...

Last edited Thu Jan 19, 2012, 02:53 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

...its really hard for me to have sympathy and not be snarky. No one deserves, however, to be attacked simply for being an "English" major.

Almost every thinking person loves the humanities and those who seek advanced education in the humanities, but too many people are making really bad economic choices about college and then complaining about those choices.
 

How dare you!!!

redqueen (93,116 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

10. We have internalized the 80's "profit uber alles" message.

That is what seeing that kind of idiocy on a left-leaning board indicates to me, anyway.

It is ******* sad.

It is called making your own way through life you filthy leech.

white_wolf (3,590 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

13. We really have.

We took the 80's greed is good message to heart and it has caused us nothing, but problems. Thanks for totally ****ing things up, Raygun.

Says the person that idolizes Marx.

Romulox (19,516 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

11. Quit telling people that they should go into debt "for the sake of education". It's AWFUL advice.

Debt is ****ing modern day indentured servitude.

/English major

white_wolf (3,590 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

15. I agree with that.

Personally, I think public University should be fully funded. If we have to tax the top 1% to do that, then so be it.

**** you thief.

ProgressiveProfessor (15,154 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

18. The attacks I have seen are not on their choice of major, but the subsequent whining about the

Last edited Thu Jan 19, 2012, 03:04 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

the lack of jobs in the field. A college major is an adult choice and choices have consequences. No one is owed a professional salary just because they have a BA or MA.

History, English, Philosophy, Sociology, etc are important areas of study.However we are producing many more of them than needed to fill available teaching slots. These are not hidden facts and are well known to those choosing to major in such areas.

If you decide to major in English/History/etc and also take the required teaching courses as well, my hat is off to you. If you take such a major with no plan on what to do afterwards...

 

Nice try.

REP (13,315 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

28. They don't all teach, or want to

Sure, the degree(s) allow you to sub in most districts, but of all my friends with English or other Humanities degrees, only one is a teacher - and she went back to University (College of Ed) to get another couple degrees 

ProgressiveProfessor (15,154 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

43. Following that path is in many ways a noble choice, but just don't whine about the lack of

jobs in the field or the salary they are making in an unrelated field.

REP (13,315 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

58. I was very naive. I went to college for an education, not as Vo-Tech for a career

I have never had (or particularly wanted) a job in the fields I have degrees; I studied them because I thought they were interesting. I was very dumb in many ways at 17 (I entered as a Sophmore and had to declare)  I don't overly regret being an idiot most days, though. I do wish I had enough money and patience for more degrees I won't use to learn more stuff I can't use. 

Why we call you DUmmies.

taught_me_patience (3,340 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

19. I love English majors

so few people know how to write in business any more.

Like you.

iemitsu (534 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

26. the degrees you mention

are under attack because they are the "top of the food chain" subjects.
to do well in these subjects requires that one understand a little about a lot. these are the folk who can make sense dis-separate bits of information and are therefore dangerous to those who wish to dismantle our society.
 

No,they very often are idealogical idiots that expect a free ride.

LanternWaste (13,619 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

31. I believe it was my degree in History that allowed me the opportunities

I believe it was my degree in history that allowed me the opportunities at my job (which is decidedly, non-history oriented) to go from proof-reading (lowest on the food chain) to Team Manager (manager of three departments, and only four steps from CEO) in less than five years, and quadruple my pay rate in that same time scale.

There are lessons quite particular to the Humanities that may be referenced in almost every aspect of our lives, and for that reason, I'm quite happy that I never reduced my options to business or (ack!) engineering, of which I was lectured quite often about to do so that I would better realize my "full economic potential"

Although I had no idea what the history degree would allow me in life at the time, I'm certainly happy that I looked at it as a passion of mine rather than a cost/benefit analysis of my future.

That being said; how do you get a history major off your front stoop? Pay for the pizza and tip well. Ba-dum-CHING.

I belive hard work and being responsible do that but you will lose DUmmy cred to admit it.

AngryAmish (18,545 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

32. Philosophy is going to cease to exist

At it's core philosophy is the study of reality and how we perceive it. Reality is what we thnk it is. What we think of things is a physical problem, biology essentially. And biology is just chemistry.

Neuroscience has killed philosophy. 

I want more weed is what that sounds like to me.

Starry Messenger (16,987 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

33. I have two degrees in Ceramics.

Even the English majors look down on me, lol. Good thread, ww. In this economy I have a hard time encouraging my students to pursue liberal arts majors but I would love to. 

mrs_p (1,732 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

37. Most deserved rec

And, who cares what someone wants to study? 

Nobody until they demand forgiveness of the debt accrued to acheive it.

tomp (8,405 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

85. there is a general attack on intellectualism.

an extensive and broad knowledge base and higher level thought process is for commies and faggots.

this is a large part of the fascist program. 

The left has controlled public education for at least 4 decades idiot.

Puregonzo1188 (1,544 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

45. As a liberal arts student, I fully agree. I am always surprised when I see this kind of attitude on

DU.

Yeah,the concept of EARNING a living is pretty rare there.

MineralMan (39,542 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

47. I was an English major. Through that, I gained the ability to write clearly and coherently

in a number of different styles. That has served me very well in a number of businesses I have started and owned, and has provided my living since 1974. The only writing style I have never used since college is the academic style, but I was very good with that style, too, when I needed it.

Must be part of the 1%.

Lydia Leftcoast (44,466 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

62. That's what the right wing would like:

colleges turning out job-ready corporate cogs who do what they're told.

The horrors of someone contributing to instead of leeching from society. 

Dragonbreathp9d (2,207 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

74. No shit! Sick and tired of hearing "worth-while" degree

Sorry assholes but making money sitting behind a desk screwing people is not only lame but has no impact on our overall society. What do we learn about from the olden days? What has changed thought and perception over the ages? Art, literature, history and philosophy. **** your pos business degree that didn't increase your knowledge of shit (no offense but I know some ****in dumbasses with them) I DID learn something worthwhile

Like the address of the welfare office.

There you have why they are such miserable failures,life has always supposed to be a fun and free ride where they can do what they want to pass the time.

[Chris_]

So their argument is that it takes a master's degree from a university to teach ten-year-olds.

Right.

[BlueStateSaint]

So their argument is that it takes a master's degree from a university to teach ten-year-olds.

Right.

At least the NYS Dept. of Education thinks so.

[Maxiest]

LanternWaste (13,619 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

31. I believe it was my degree in History that allowed me the opportunities

I believe it was my degree in history that allowed me the opportunities at my job (which is decidedly, non-history oriented) to go from proof-reading (lowest on the food chain) to Team Manager (manager of three departments, and only four steps from CEO) in less than five years, and quadruple my pay rate in that same time scale.

There are lessons quite particular to the Humanities that may be referenced in almost every aspect of our lives, and for that reason, I'm quite happy that I never reduced my options to business or (ack!) engineering, of which I was lectured quite often about to do so that I would better realize my "full economic potential"

Although I had no idea what the history degree would allow me in life at the time, I'm certainly happy that I looked at it as a passion of mine rather than a cost/benefit analysis of my future.

That being said; how do you get a history major off your front stoop? Pay for the pizza and tip well. Ba-dum-CHING.

quadruple???  OMG???  WTF???  And you got all this by working hard and working your way up?  Maybe you should teach work ethic at DU.  Another thing...  I hope the government is taxing the **** out of you, and if they are not, I hope you are donating extra when filling your taxes each year.  If you lived off of 1/4 of what you make now 5 years ago, then you obviously don't need the other 3/4.  ****ing rich.

[SarasotaRepub]

white_wolf is a gas, I'm really sorry I accidentally deleted his acct on CU. Really.

[DumbAss Tanker]

They are certainly necessary and valuable, however they are also in a drastic oversupply situation, and anyone with a brain attending college needs to realize that instead of being seduced by overstaffed departments desperately seeking majors to pimp up their numbers.

[Chris_]

white_wolf is a gas, I'm really sorry I accidentally deleted his acct on CU. Really.

I could see how that could get tiresome.

The commies are almost as bad as the Ron Paul goons.

[Skul]

MineralMan (39,550 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

47. I was an English major. Through that, I gained the ability to write clearly and coherently
in a number of different styles. That has served me very well in a number of businesses I have started and owned, and has provided my living since 1974. The only writing style I have never used since college is the academic style, but I was very good with that style, too, when I needed it.

Wonder what happened to all those businesses?
Y'all don't suppose they went under because MM was pilfering the till, do you?
MM didn't understand that profit needs to go back into the business to make it grow.
Sticking it all in his pocket didn't help a bit.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Wonder what happened to all those businesses?
Y'all don't suppose they went under because MM was pilfering the till, do you?
MM didn't understand that profit needs to go back into the business to make it grow.
Sticking it all in his pocket didn't help a bit.

Hard to say, MM is one of the saner DUmmies who somehow avoids the Pizza of Doom despite occasional snark at the real idiots, so there may be some truth to this one.  Or not, it's just as possible he's thread-whoring to build up positive karma.   

[SarasotaRepub]

Wonder what happened to all those businesses?
Y'all don't suppose they went under because MM was pilfering the till, do you?
MM didn't understand that profit needs to go back into the business to make it grow.
Sticking it all in his pocket didn't help a bit.

No, he sold all those bidnesses for mucho $$$ and secretly lives next to kpete...

[GOBUCKS]

My favorite post in this whole, endless, boring thread:

Thu Jan 19, 2012, 05:06 PM
 4_TN_TITANS (2,352 posts)  

56. Another English major checking in...
I honestly had no clue what I would do with an English degree upon graduating college, I sure didn't want to be a teacher, but it worked out good for me and good for business communications. Anybody is welcome to make fun of my degree

Thanks, red state hell DUmbass! I think I'd rather make fun of your college.

It apparently hands out English degrees to DUmbasses who don't know the difference between adverbs and adjectives.

This DUmmy illustrates the main reason for the popular bias against liberal arts degrees.

The pinheads who are incapable of any kind of higher education are attracted to liberal arts in order to avoid math.

The handful of smart liberal arts majors are lost in a sea of morons like this DUmmy, and they're all tarred by the same brush.

[67 Rover]

Wonder what happened to all those businesses?
Y'all don't suppose they went under because MM was pilfering the till, do you?
MM didn't understand that profit needs to go back into the business to make it grow.
Sticking it all in his pocket didn't help a bit.

Yea, I am very surprised he did not jump all over that pies for pixie flutes idea from that other Jack Welch of DU IIRC dementenjeep the overcoat broad?

[JohnnyReb]

I graduated in the mid-70's, when jobs for English Majors and other Humanities disciplines declined, due in part to a recession at the time. ...and just what party was in charge then? ...and who became president about that time? ....yes, it was Hoover, you can thank a DUmmie historian.

[jukin]

Exactly what does a black studies or womens studies degree qualify you for that an angry ancient Asian lesbians doesn't?

The feel good useless degrees that cost north of a 100 grand is nothing but a waste of money and why the OWemeS are so pissed. If I were in the OWemeS I would be protesting the higher education institutions not the banks that gave them the money to waste. It's like buying a lemon car and protesting the bank for giving you the money, not the car company. However such is the brilliant minds of the Liberal left. 

[Karin]

I have known and worked with Liberal Arts majors who pulled down some nice coinage.  But, the DUmmies aren't going to like it.  I once worked for a very large CORPORATION.  The product it sold, was in large part sold via brokers on golf courses, and over drinks & cigars.  The Sales dept manned itself with Ivy League liberal arts majors who could smoothly shovel the shit and move product with high rollers.   

Part of my job was to guide these guys through the math of deals they would concoct.   

[GOBUCKS]

During the Reagan years, and The Great Bush Prosperity, the handful of liberal arts majors with brains could make a lot of money in real estate.

When the market comes back, they will again.

But the ones bellyaching now will have starved by then.

[Skul]

Exactly what does a black studies or womens studies degree qualify you for that an angry ancient Asian lesbians doesn't?

The feel good useless degrees that cost north of a 100 grand is nothing but a waste of money and why the OWemeS are so pissed. If I were in the OWemeS I would be protesting the higher education institutions not the banks that gave them the money to waste. It's like buying a lemon car and protesting the bank for giving you the money, not the car company. However such is the brilliant minds of the Liberal left. 

That makes perfectly good sense to me.  H5

[zeitgeist]

So their argument is that it takes a master's degree from a university to teach ten-year-olds.

Right.

Dude, here in P_town north we had to get rid of the shop teacher who had about every automotive certification you could want.  Why?  Duh, he didn't have or want a Master of Education degree.  Amazing but true.  Kids can sit in class listening to some assclown spew about who knows what but couldn't figure out how to put the jack in a trunk while the master mechanic takes his tools an goes home. 

[vesta111]

Dude, here in P_town north we had to get rid of the shop teacher who had about every automotive certification you could want.  Why?  Duh, he didn't have or want a Master of Education degree.  Amazing but true.  Kids can sit in class listening to some assclown spew about who knows what but couldn't figure out how to put the jack in a trunk while the master mechanic takes his tools an goes home. 

True, oh so true that when you take your auto into the shop, the workers are not shade tree mechanics, they have to know and understand all the complicated computers that are now the usual thing.

Pay goes up the more education a mechanic has, not cheap but nothing like spending $100,000 for a degree in French Art design in the 1600's.

Not everyone is suited to College, this so called College education can open doors in the future but who can tell if anyone is going to luck out and get a job in that field???   

While those with expensive degrees are managing fast food restaurants, the people that are plumbers, electricians, stone workers, master carpenters, boat builders and mechanics in the field of aircraft and the boating industry  are bringing in 4 times the money, and believe it or not some don't even have an honest GED.

I do not know when the college education became a way to get out of manual work, promise of a desk job and big perks.    I know of some well educated folks that when reaching close to 50 years old are let go from jobs they did well in for 30  years.  Now what, too young to retire and too old to be hired.

Check out the diamond cutters around the world, they have a trade they can carry on their backs to fall back on.

Get the kids a trade first, then if they are have the brains to continuing their education in college taking square dancing and basket weaving, or the sciences, great, spend the money --------When a field of too many applicents comes up and the kid is left out, they have a trade to fall back on.

Picture this, if all the jobs  that require a degree were to insist on a Masters degree, where would our teachers go, our Nurses, our police and fire department??   You and I would be SOOL,  it is not the college educated that run this country but those with a Trade, hands on, work history and experience.   

Darn when my toilet backs up, I want a Plumber not some one with a degree in Art History.

Rant over for now,