Elmers see limits

[Carl]

http://oldelmtree.com/showthread.php?tid=20027

The Limits to Growth at forty: Is collapse now inevitable? 

Today, 12:31 PM Post: #1
  Forkboy 
Balu Flying Frog

 Posts: 252
Joined: Aug 2011 
 
The Limits to Growth at forty: Is collapse now inevitable?
Forty years ago, a group of Scientists investigated what the world would look like if we continued on our path of exponential economic growth, with a continued growth in population, pollution and industry. The study resulted in the publishing of the eye opening book, The Limits to Growth, which would surely cause discomfort to even the most ardent of believers in the might of our growth dependent economic system.

The team of scientists inputted various sets of data, based on differing predictions relating to population, pollution and economic growth into the World 3 computer model, which made calculations about the future trajectory of economic growth, in relation to any potential limits to such growth and the consequences of surpassing these limits. In almost all models, where growth continued exponentially, population and industry went into sharp decline following peak.

The most revealing aspect of these models was that where growth continued, it eventually hit the natural and ecological limits to growth, where after it would undergo a steep rather than gentle and gradual decline, otherwise called a collapse. Collapse resulted even in models where an account was made for a potentially greatly increased use of renewable and nuclear energies, aswell as higher farm yields or greater birth control. The underlying cause of this resultant collapse was the system of inter related feedbacks between the various aspects of the globalised system. For example, even when there was a great increase in renewable energies, collapse would eventually manifest itself due to increased population, soil erosion and general pollution.

A particularly realistic aspect of these models was that it factored in the delayed response of individuals to the signs of imminent limits, as it accounted for the probability that people would continue to consume and pollute past the sustainable limits of the particular model. Of course, in the real world, many people will continue to consume until it is no longer possible. Could the models have predicted the true extent of the inaction that we have witnessed in the face of the grave threats of climate change, peak oil and bio – diversity loss?

http://www.universitytimes.ie/?p=7760

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I am not a scientist,academic or have a moments schooling beyond high school but know one thing that these "studies" never do.
They always go on the presumption that what is at the moment of the study is what always will be,Americain ingenuity is never considered.

Enthusiast 
Jaguar

 Posts: 98
Joined: Dec 2011 
 
RE: The Limits to Growth at forty: Is collapse now inevitable?
Stick a fork in us, we're done?

We could adequately address all these issues if not saddled with a consumer society and corporate controlled government. As it is now we can't even adopt solar and wind energy because of the interests of the all-powerful fossil fuel industry.

Any suggestion that we engage in an all out clean/renewable energy effort is met with the mouth breathers saying, "Oh, but solar and wind energy only provide 1% of our needs." Well, duh. How about we increase that 1% to 60% and do it now instead of waiting for the disaster we know is coming?

It is not a decision of choice but one of realities and practicalities you idiot.

Forkboy 
Balu Flying Frog

 Posts: 252
Joined: Aug 2011 
 
RE: The Limits to Growth at forty: Is collapse now inevitable?
(Today 12:57 PM)

Enthusiast Wrote: 
Stick a fork in us, we're done?

We could adequately address all these issues if not saddled with a consumer society and corporate controlled government. As it is now we can't even adopt solar and wind energy because of the interests of the all-powerful fossil fuel industry.

Any suggestion that we engage in an all out clean/renewable energy effort is met with the mouth breathers saying, "Oh, but solar and wind energy only provide 1% of our needs." Well, duh. How about we increase that 1% to 60% and do it now instead of waiting for the disaster we know is coming?

This is America. We don't take kindly to logic.

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Sane people do,demanding a return to the early 1900s so as to satisfy your marxist yearnings is what most people don`t find logical.

juno jones 
sententious twaddle

 Posts: 62
Joined: Nov 2009 
 
RE: The Limits to Growth at forty: Is collapse now inevitable?
In the late seventies I took debate. I sucked at speaking but I was a decent researcher. Our topic was fossil vs alternative fuels: the energy crisis was very real and on the minds of all, and we used to get an education in those days rather than simply study for the next round of testing. What I learned in '78 has haunted me ever since.

This has been a long time coming and fully documented. Every step of the way. Except those in charge of the money can't seem to put the crackpipe down.

If I am correct in my conclusions from that research, biomass/biofuels (with a healthy sprinkling of solar, wind, water, etc) is our most likely hope. Hemp could supply a huge amount of that.

I hope for the best, but am expecting disappointment.

PS: Both nuclear and coal buy us only thirty years and **** up the environment further. Neither are viable as long term solutions and the dangers of the short term should be kept fully in mind. Fracking was dismissed at the time for too much pollution vs long term yield.

Say what?

That is half of the days public posts,elmers keep their real crazy behind rubber walls.

[Karin]

Did you read that whole thing, Carl? 

Zzzzzzzzz   This is a picture perfect portrait of the dead elm.  Good for insomnia, I guess. 

[JohnnyReb]

DUmmie says, "If I am correct in my conclusions from that research, biomass/biofuels (with a healthy sprinkling of solar, wind, water, etc) is our most likely hope. Hemp could supply a huge amount of that"

Who knew that hemp would be the savior of the world?

DUmmie ideal of solar/hemp/wind energy: Lie in the sun, smoke dope and pass popcorn farts.

[miskie]

You see, Elmers - Humans aren't digital machines. They are more like analog devices, capable of subtle adjustments in their lives & routines that prevent the cataclysmic fall from grace moonbat scientists 'predict' over and over again.