The age old women vs. men debate

[Toastedturningtidelegs]

I have "friends" who refuse to let their sons play with toy guns...too violent. What do the boys do? Make guns out of legos and shoot at each other!

My oldest just made a thompson sub machine gun out of wood{its pretty cool actually } My other two boys are constantly making guns and swords and various other weapons of destruction from either scrap wood,legos,and tree branches and duct tape

Mine too God love 'em.

Gives me hope for the future!

Oh I've sparred with coat hangers, paper towel rolls, rubber band guns, legos, sticks, branches, broom handles, etc...we have a lot of fun.

Ever done any bike jousting? Me and the boys have!

Oh i've also had some grisly wars with airsoft guns in the woods across the street

[jtyangel]

ABSOLUTELY! The modern feminist movement has single handedly done more to destroy marriages and male children than all other things combined IMO,meaning that feminism tends to put the individual{female} above all in importance while portraying men to be dumb, bumbling,sex addicted,lazy assholes.When male children grow up seeing this especially when dear old dad has already been castrated its no wonder most men in this country have lost their balls and ability to not only speak up for themselves or challenge women about anything. Women have become a protected class in this country and its time for that to end. There is something to be said for the traditional roles males and females played in the past....It Worked! Flame away!

While I agree with what you're saying on its surface, I can't lay all the blame of the emasculation of our species on the feminist movement alone--we men deserve exactly half the blame. We allowed these nutjobs to infiltrate our schools, churches (yes, churches too), and public discourse. Feminism may have done the castrating, but it was some of us who were willingly led to the table. When men have sex indiscriminately, put their junk in any willing hole, and then don't stick around to accept the responsibility, we deserve part of the blame.

Here come the bitch slaps. I can feel 'em... 

No argument from me there Splash. Men let this shit gain ground until it spiraled to where we are today.

well, not to bash women, but if a man actually tried to dissent then women cried "FOUL!" and "gender discrimination!" .. the PC police got on men's butts pretty fast - men learned to keep their mouths shut.

its been a huge detriment to society and failed as a social experiment.

Ok, I'll take umbrage with that though...again, some of the laws came in place because there WAS discrimination. Try being pregnant in the early 70's and see where that would land you. The laws may seem silly today, but they came about because of how things were at the time. It's important to put them in context. The real issue today is that there is no..well discrimination in discrimination. Children are taught that any slight to them is discriminatory is some way so it gets overused. They are taught if they don't get their way even if they didn't earn it it is because of gender, skin color, etc. That is the issue today and its born in not giving a clear cut understanding of what discrimination is, but its also not profitable to hop on the bus and say that discrimination never happened--it most certainly did and women were on the receiving end of it for a long time. As conservatives we can't be too quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[Lauri]

older men, perhaps... maybe they did take advantage of women who had looser morals. but what about the generations of little boys being raised by feminists? those kids didnt have a chance really.. their moms tried to get them to play with dolls and express their emotions more.. cause that was what being 'a real man' was all about; being in touch with their feminine side.

i have my little leftie mom across the street who is trying, in vain, to produce a 'real man' in her two year old. he is all boy, but she wants him to play with dolls and listen to Hannah Montana with his older sister - and neither of the kids is buying it.

but she tries.

the rest of us tell her to knock it off and let the kid breathe.. her reply? "I just want him to be the best man he can be!" well, sad to say.. but no woman on earth can teach a little boy how to be a man. that's a man's job. or more to the point, that's a dad's job.

exactly!!!! I weep for my son some days. He has mentioned more than once that marriage is pointless. Yes, I know he's just a kid and not even capable of thinking along those lines yet. But he really doesn't see any value in it. Society has done that. I have a younger brother who thinks the same way. He's 34, divorced with a 13 year old son he can see any time he likes. He's a bachelor who comes and goes as he pleases, he dates casually, spends his money on whatever he wants (his son obviously comes first though). Tell me where the incentive is for him to remarry? There is none. That's sad to me.

not that i listen to rap music (or really any top 40 stuff) but it seems the message is that 'girls are just out to take your wallet' and 'boys are just out to have a good time' is the message that's been going out to our kids for a long, long time.

albeit, in a much more crude way..  i think if a young kid thinks he doesnt need to be in a committed relationship to enjoy sex (public schools teach this) and abortion on demand is the order of the day - what benefit is there really to him? he can have sex with anyone he chooses and if she gets pregnant he is not only not supposed to marry her, he is encouraged not to do so by everyone around him. the girl also gets those same messages, but she now has a baby daddy on the hook for the next 18 years to help her pay for the kid, should she so desire.

that's not all kids.. or even most kids. but its enough of them that think this way that our society is in real danger of never recovering from feminism and liberal/leftie ideas imprinted on our kids.

[jtyangel]

I have "friends" who refuse to let their sons play with toy guns...too violent. What do the boys do? Make guns out of legos and shoot at each other!

My oldest just made a thompson sub machine gun out of wood{its pretty cool actually } My other two boys are constantly making guns and swords and various other weapons of destruction from either scrap wood,legos,and tree branches and duct tape

Mine too God love 'em.

Gives me hope for the future!

Oh I've sparred with coat hangers, paper towel rolls, rubber band guns, legos, sticks, branches, broom handles, etc...we have a lot of fun.

Ever done any bike jousting? Me and the boys have!

I can't watch! I'll leave you to it, but I can't watch...lol

[Lauri]

I have "friends" who refuse to let their sons play with toy guns...too violent. What do the boys do? Make guns out of legos and shoot at each other!

My oldest just made a thompson sub machine gun out of wood{its pretty cool actually } My other two boys are constantly making guns and swords and various other weapons of destruction from either scrap wood,legos,and tree branches and duct tape

Mine too God love 'em.

Gives me hope for the future!

Oh I've sparred with coat hangers, paper towel rolls, rubber band guns, legos, sticks, branches, broom handles, etc...we have a lot of fun.

Ever done any bike jousting? Me and the boys have!

i dont have any sons, but i did have a gaggle of brothers. i will this; army men under my covers was a painful way to learn to *never* turn my back on them ..

[jtyangel]

older men, perhaps... maybe they did take advantage of women who had looser morals. but what about the generations of little boys being raised by feminists? those kids didnt have a chance really.. their moms tried to get them to play with dolls and express their emotions more.. cause that was what being 'a real man' was all about; being in touch with their feminine side.

i have my little leftie mom across the street who is trying, in vain, to produce a 'real man' in her two year old. he is all boy, but she wants him to play with dolls and listen to Hannah Montana with his older sister - and neither of the kids is buying it.

but she tries.

the rest of us tell her to knock it off and let the kid breathe.. her reply? "I just want him to be the best man he can be!" well, sad to say.. but no woman on earth can teach a little boy how to be a man. that's a man's job. or more to the point, that's a dad's job.

Women don't raise children in a vacuum though. For every woman throwing dolls at their son, there is a father just sitting by letting it happen(or a father who shirked his responsibility alltogether and left a woman to raise a child alone). It's what Dixie said, it is the lack of adult behavior on both sides that led to this.

well, that may be ... in this instance the dad tries pretty hard to get mom to back off and she just has her own ideas about what is right and wrong and she is not at all mature yet about how to let the dad be a part of the process. i find this with some stay at home moms; they feel that since they are with the kids most of the time, its their way or the highway. they set the rules and dad is just kind of partially there at the end of the day and weekends.

granted, dad needs to be more vocal about standing his ground but in this case, and i kid you not, this dad was raised by a lesbian mom who was artificially inseminated. this mom and dad are oregon hippie transplants that are learning pretty quickly that their kids need boundaries and discipline - but mom has been dragging her heels, thinking it will injure their little souls.

i rarely find dads who think that way .. but youre right, it takes the input of both parents to balance the kids out and set the tone for the family. its definitely not easy.. even when parents agree. 

LOL...yes, I know the stay at home mom thing..right up there with attachment parenting stuff. I hear you, Lauri. I've seen the insistance in that kind of thing too. It is there. Men can never give up though. Their children and how they come to be adults are at stake. It's going to be tough to counteract a woman getting kookoo ideas from places, but it will be worth the effort in the long run and I agree with you that a lot of women will mature out of that crap. Just takes some time and effort.

[Toastedturningtidelegs]

I have "friends" who refuse to let their sons play with toy guns...too violent. What do the boys do? Make guns out of legos and shoot at each other!

My oldest just made a thompson sub machine gun out of wood{its pretty cool actually } My other two boys are constantly making guns and swords and various other weapons of destruction from either scrap wood,legos,and tree branches and duct tape

Mine too God love 'em.

Gives me hope for the future!

Oh I've sparred with coat hangers, paper towel rolls, rubber band guns, legos, sticks, branches, broom handles, etc...we have a lot of fun.

Ever done any bike jousting? Me and the boys have!

I can't watch! I'll leave you to it, but I can't watch...lol

See what happens when i'm home alone and bored?

[jtyangel]

older men, perhaps... maybe they did take advantage of women who had looser morals. but what about the generations of little boys being raised by feminists? those kids didnt have a chance really.. their moms tried to get them to play with dolls and express their emotions more.. cause that was what being 'a real man' was all about; being in touch with their feminine side.

i have my little leftie mom across the street who is trying, in vain, to produce a 'real man' in her two year old. he is all boy, but she wants him to play with dolls and listen to Hannah Montana with his older sister - and neither of the kids is buying it.

but she tries.

the rest of us tell her to knock it off and let the kid breathe.. her reply? "I just want him to be the best man he can be!" well, sad to say.. but no woman on earth can teach a little boy how to be a man. that's a man's job. or more to the point, that's a dad's job.

exactly!!!! I weep for my son some days. He has mentioned more than once that marriage is pointless. Yes, I know he's just a kid and not even capable of thinking along those lines yet. But he really doesn't see any value in it. Society has done that. I have a younger brother who thinks the same way. He's 34, divorced with a 13 year old son he can see any time he likes. He's a bachelor who comes and goes as he pleases, he dates casually, spends his money on whatever he wants (his son obviously comes first though). Tell me where the incentive is for him to remarry? There is none. That's sad to me.

not that i listen to rap music (or really any top 40 stuff) but it seems the message is that 'girls are just out to take your wallet' and 'boys are just out to have a good time' is the message that's been going out to our kids for a long, long time.

albeit, in a much more crude way..  i think if a young kid thinks he doesnt need to be in a committed relationship to enjoy sex (public schools teach this) and abortion on demand is the order of the day - what benefit is there really to him? he can have sex with anyone he chooses and if she gets pregnant he is not only not supposed to marry her, he is encouraged not to do so by everyone around him. the girl also gets those same messages, but she now has a baby daddy on the hook for the next 18 years to help her pay for the kid, should she so desire.

that's not all kids.. or even most kids. but its enough of them that think this way that our society is in real danger of never recovering from feminism and liberal/leftie ideas imprinted on our kids.

Lauri, you've hit another nerve. The stereotypes of men and women in popular culture. Some bad for men(men only want the a$$) and some for women(ie women only want the wallet). Maybe both even fall into the trap of believing it too and emulating it to find themselves unhappy down the road when the a$$ is a headcase and the wallet is also only into the wallet...lol. Sad...

[DixieBelle]

totally agree that women's rights and the brave ladies who came before us are to be honored. I don't believe in equality so much as I believe in validation. I'm a woman. Recognize that. Allow me to be one. You're a man. I recognize that and want you to be one. (Generally speaking here). Do we deserve basic rights? Of course. Voting, participating in society, workplace parity, etc...but I'm not a man. I don't want to be treated like one and I never want to make a man fell inferior because I'm somehow "special" and need to be elevated to make up for the sins of the past when women were treated horribly.

There are still people out there who are pigs (men AND women) and they are why we have certain laws on the books. But no, I generally don't buy into the Feminist movement. And quite frankly, neither does my almost 60 year old mother who DID fight for equal rights back in the day. In fact, she's quite mortified to see what young women and men have done with the whole thing.

/off soapbox.

[Lauri]

ABSOLUTELY! The modern feminist movement has single handedly done more to destroy marriages and male children than all other things combined IMO,meaning that feminism tends to put the individual{female} above all in importance while portraying men to be dumb, bumbling,sex addicted,lazy assholes.When male children grow up seeing this especially when dear old dad has already been castrated its no wonder most men in this country have lost their balls and ability to not only speak up for themselves or challenge women about anything. Women have become a protected class in this country and its time for that to end. There is something to be said for the traditional roles males and females played in the past....It Worked! Flame away!

While I agree with what you're saying on its surface, I can't lay all the blame of the emasculation of our species on the feminist movement alone--we men deserve exactly half the blame. We allowed these nutjobs to infiltrate our schools, churches (yes, churches too), and public discourse. Feminism may have done the castrating, but it was some of us who were willingly led to the table. When men have sex indiscriminately, put their junk in any willing hole, and then don't stick around to accept the responsibility, we deserve part of the blame.

Here come the bitch slaps. I can feel 'em... 

No argument from me there Splash. Men let this shit gain ground until it spiraled to where we are today.

well, not to bash women, but if a man actually tried to dissent then women cried "FOUL!" and "gender discrimination!" .. the PC police got on men's butts pretty fast - men learned to keep their mouths shut.

its been a huge detriment to society and failed as a social experiment.

Ok, I'll take umbrage with that though...again, some of the laws came in place because there WAS discrimination. Try being pregnant in the early 70's and see where that would land you. The laws may seem silly today, but they came about because of how things were at the time. It's important to put them in context. The real issue today is that there is no..well discrimination in discrimination. Children are taught that any slight to them is discriminatory is some way so it gets overused. They are taught if they don't get their way even if they didn't earn it it is because of gender, skin color, etc. That is the issue today and its born in not giving a clear cut understanding of what discrimination is, but its also not profitable to hop on the bus and say that discrimination never happened--it most certainly did and women were on the receiving end of it for a long time. As conservatives we can't be too quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

oh i definitely agree that discrimination against women was the starting point - but then society over corrected too far and then men became the boogie man for every conceivable problem that goes on in this country/world.

i am constantly amazed at the PC bullshit my husband has to participate in at work in the effort to end discrimination; the conferences, the meetings, the presentations to groups... it takes up a lot of time .. and common sense doesnt seem very common any more. but every group now is just waiting to be offended by somebody - so everyone has to suffer the consequences.

[DixieBelle]

^you wouldn't believe (well yes, you would!) P.C. crap that's on the books at school. I nearly died when they brought home all of the "how to spot and deal with a bully" paperwork. Oy!

We basically told our son to stand up and be a man if someone tries any crap with him. Sadly, if that happens, we'll be called on the carpet too. Oh well.

[jtyangel]

totally agree that women's rights and the brave ladies who came before us are to be honored. I don't believe in equality so much as I believe in validation. I'm a woman. Recognize that. Allow me to be one. You're a man. I recognize that and want you to be one. (Generally speaking here). Do we deserve basic rights? Of course. Voting, participating in society, workplace parity, etc...but I'm not a man. I don't want to be treated like one and I never want to make a man fell inferior because I'm somehow "special" and need to be elevated to make up for the sins of the past when women were treated horribly.

There are still people out there who are pigs (men AND women) and they are why we have certain laws on the books. But no, I generally don't buy into the Feminist movement. And quite frankly, neither does my almost 60 year old mother who DID fight for equal rights back in the day. In fact, she's quite mortified to see what young women and men have done with the whole thing.

/off soapbox.

Agree with you again, Dixie and I'm also with you on the no special rights thing. I've worked too hard without a helping hand to ask for it now and my own parents made me too proud to even consider such a thing anyway. 

And although I have an opinion that differs a bit here, do not think for a moment that I coddle frauds and liars who would use the system to benefit themselves. That kind of behavior is despicable and many people like that are shielded by laws not meant to protect their feelings. We could just go so many ways with this couldn't we?

[DixieBelle]

Yes!!! This could be endless

[Lauri]

totally agree that women's rights and the brave ladies who came before us are to be honored. I don't believe in equality so much as I believe in validation. I'm a woman. Recognize that. Allow me to be one. You're a man. I recognize that and want you to be one. (Generally speaking here). Do we deserve basic rights? Of course. Voting, participating in society, workplace parity, etc...but I'm not a man. I don't want to be treated like one and I never want to make a man fell inferior because I'm somehow "special" and need to be elevated to make up for the sins of the past when women were treated horribly.

There are still people out there who are pigs (men AND women) and they are why we have certain laws on the books. But no, I generally don't buy into the Feminist movement. And quite frankly, neither does my almost 60 year old mother who DID fight for equal rights back in the day. In fact, she's quite mortified to see what young women and men have done with the whole thing.

/off soapbox.

agreed... my late husband was in the Air Force under Reagan, so I dont have any real idea about how women in the military really affected the men during the Clinton era - but I can say this about my experience. Most of the women we met who were in the Air Force, as soon as they found a husband and got pregnant, they were more than happy to dive out of the men's world and back into the women's world.

try as we might, biologically, we just are not the same. and hopefully we never will be.

[Lauri]

^you wouldn't believe (well yes, you would!) P.C. crap that's on the books at school. I nearly died when they brought home all of the "how to spot and deal with a bully" paperwork. Oy!

We basically told our son to stand up and be a man if someone tries any crap with him. Sadly, if that happens, we'll be called on the carpet too. Oh well.

yep .. we tell the neighborhood kids on our cul de sac not to let the little kids get bullied, but the older ones dont have to take any crap from the older kids either.

my daughter is the oldest on our block of 12 houses and though it hasnt been an issue yet, it will be in the future.. and she knows she has our full support to hit back. if she gets into trouble at school for defending herself, so be it. she wont get into trouble at home, which is what matters to her.

[Lauri]

totally agree that women's rights and the brave ladies who came before us are to be honored. I don't believe in equality so much as I believe in validation. I'm a woman. Recognize that. Allow me to be one. You're a man. I recognize that and want you to be one. (Generally speaking here). Do we deserve basic rights? Of course. Voting, participating in society, workplace parity, etc...but I'm not a man. I don't want to be treated like one and I never want to make a man fell inferior because I'm somehow "special" and need to be elevated to make up for the sins of the past when women were treated horribly.

There are still people out there who are pigs (men AND women) and they are why we have certain laws on the books. But no, I generally don't buy into the Feminist movement. And quite frankly, neither does my almost 60 year old mother who DID fight for equal rights back in the day. In fact, she's quite mortified to see what young women and men have done with the whole thing.

/off soapbox.

Agree with you again, Dixie and I'm also with you on the no special rights thing. I've worked too hard without a helping hand to ask for it now and my own parents made me too proud to even consider such a thing anyway. 

And although I have an opinion that differs a bit here, do not think for a moment that I coddle frauds and liars who would use the system to benefit themselves. That kind of behavior is despicable and many people like that are shielded by laws not meant to protect their feelings. We could just go so many ways with this couldn't we?

i'm hopeful that we are breeding out all the hippies and that the next few generations are just more laid back and not so hyper critical of anyone or anything that is different from them.

as it is, most of our kids in America know kids of color and are not afraid of them or even give it a second thought. i think that will wipe out a lot of these issues as those kids mature and the hippies die off