primitive has wierd elect. problem

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1158139

Oh my.

Knowledge of orthography is definitely in a deficit on Skins's island lately.

dweller (12,418 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

Any electricians on board tonite, wierd elect. problem

Preface: It has been very windy today here in NC. I was home most of the day, and noticed no electrical problems while home. Left for several hours on errands and upon return, noticed first the motion detector light in my drive that comes on as i drive in was very, very dim. I walked up and was looking at it wondering if the flood light was burning out, it barely illuminated the ground, almost with a brownish tint. Then i noticed the porch light that should have been on was out. I got in and first checked the switch for the porch light where i have installed a dimmer so i can dim and brighten the porch light. It was on, and i turned it up and at its highest setting it too was very dim, brownish like the flood light.

So, i came on in and went to put away some groceries and upon opening the fridge, noticed the fridge light was dim also, very yellowish. Hmmm, now i was starting to get intrigued. Went around checking other appliances, lights, etc. Couldn't tell anymore problems immediately. Went to the bedroom and flicked on a tv that is plugged into a socket that is on the same wall as the fridge in the kit, the porch lite, flood lite, etc. It came on fine, checked some overhead lights, other items plugged in, and they appeared fine, but then noticed a ceiling fan and light were not coming on strong either, running slowly, and lit dimly. I was back in the bedroom when the tv blinked off, and went and sure enough the fridge is out. Ceiling fan/light has quit, and several sockets are also off.

Checked the breaker panel, nothing tripped. Checked by turning off and back on all breakers. Still no power to half the lower wall breakers, and then remembered the ceiling fan/light is run from a wall outlet, so it's out too.
Weird part, i have sockets on the same wall in the same room that both work and don't work, for example, one to the right of the kitchen sink does run, to the left (fridge plug) does not, but to the left of the fridge plug, does work. Next in line on the wall is the porch light, out, next and all other sockets on that side out, but any sockets on the perpendicular walls in the house are fine. Not all exterior wall sockets are out, just some, and all interior perpendicular walls (as far as i can tell) sockets are on.

So, my question: what caused this dimming/browning out of lights before total loss? A breaker going out? A wire coming loose somewhere to interrupt the circuitry in the rest of the sockets in line? Perhaps something outside my home entirely due to the wind blowing something on a power line somewhere? It's too dark to tell outside anything, and can't tell if neighbors are having similar problems as it's late, and many aren't home for the holidays.

any advice you could lend would help, and i am going to start looking at things closer tomorrow. In the meantime, fridge is running from an extension cord to a working plug and i'm stumped.

Viva_La_Revolution (25,122 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

1. Could be a bad panel

call an electrician first thing in the morning, and turn off or unplug everything you possibly can.

Electricity is not something to mess around with.

dweller (12,418 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

2. thanks

but i've looked at the panel and tested with a tester several lines and it doesn't appear to be a problem there so far as i've looked.

I have a timer running the water heater, and it may have quit, and started a drain somewhere. I've turned off the water heater for the nite, and i think all will be fine for now.

will go at it again tomorrow.

Kolesar (26,302 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

3. It could be an "open neutral"

I would use a meter to check the voltage levels and see if some of the receptacles are low and some of the receptacles are high. Normal is 120 volts.

You probably need a real electrician.

dweller (12,418 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

4. yes, that was what i was seeing

esp. on the water heater timer.

Woke up this morning and everything is back to normal, but for the water heater. Haven't turned it back on yet. When i went to bed, was still w/out certain sockets, lights dim, etc. Woke up and all were working again just fine. Full bright lights, working sockets.

like i said, weird problem, i think it was something outside at the transformer, but i may never know. Will check out everything carefully.

Hassin Bin Sober (4,973 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

6. I agree it sounds like a problem with the nuetral.

Please let us know what you find out. (It's an intriguing problem to this DIY amateur electrician who lays awake at night reading and studying so as not to burn the house down)

Major Nikon (1,713 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

5. You might try calling the power company first

Whatever electrical problem you have appears to be systemic. Any problems prior to your meter are the electrical company's responsibility. Most electrical companies will come out and do an inspection for free. They can also usually tell you if you're having problems in your neighborhood while you're talking to them on the phone. Many electrical companies have gone to automated systems to report outages. If you select the option for a line down, you'll get to talk to a real person. The down side here is that if they find a problem on your side of the meter, they could very well cut your power off and require a licensed electrician to fix the problem prior to turning you back on. If you're at the point of having to call an electrician anyway, you don't have much to lose. You're paying them so you might as well have them come out first. An electrician is probably going to charge you a service call at the very least.

Hassin Bin Sober (4,973 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

7. That's good advice and a good warning (about getting power cut off).

My dad called the gas company because he though he smelled gas outside. They showed up and found a slight leak INSIDE and cut his service until he could get a plumber out. This was in the middle of winter. DOH!

I guess they gotta do what they gotta do.

NMDemDist2 (47,762 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

8. we had kinda a weird thing sorta like that last week

if we had something plugged into one socket, no problem but when we unplugged the lamp all the lights and sockets went out on that leg

turns out the socket had a bad ground, hubby replaced the socket, no problems...

Stinky The Clown (44,355 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

9. This could be a bad neutral connection on your feed into the house.

That would cause one leg to go dim while the other leg gets hot/bright.

dweller (12,418 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

10. i'll go dig it up and check it out.

my water heater is toast. I think that was causing an element to go to ground. Whether this is the cause of the problem, i'll see once i've replaced the wh.

Wash. state Desk Jet (1,746 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

11. Could be yer line in to the house from the poll.

Got any tall trees surrounding the power feed from the pole to the meter ?

Insulation wore off perhaps ? That can cause the problem you discribed. If that is the problem, the power company will fix it although if tree branchs caused damaged areas of the insulation -you will have to have those trees trimed. The transformer of course is attached to the power poll.

The last time I ran into that sort of problem I checked everything ,everywhere and finally looked over the feed from the poll to the meter, with binoculars I saw the damage to the line.

I had the people call the power company rather a electrical outfit, and the power company did a temp patch,restored full power and instructed the home owners to have the tree trimed,when it was done-the tree having been trimed, the power company came back and did the premanent fix for free.

It all happened after a rain /wind storm,although it was bound to happen anyway. Tree branchs can do severe damage to those power lines.

The defrocked warped primitive, she with the face like Hindenburg's:

Warpy (61,882 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

12. That happened when I was a kid and a lightning strike took out half a transformer, which is how the power company repairman explained it.

It was weird seeing brown light from incandescent light bulbs.

dweller (12,418 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

13. awaiting power company to show up

appears i have only 80v on one phase coming in. It actually cycles from 125v to 80v and back continually every 6-7 minutes. The other phase is 135v constant.

so, unable to get 220v at water heater and dryer, and lights dimming during the down phase.

dweller (12,418 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

14. not incoming power so it's on my side, part underground, or inside.

the quest continues...

Hassin Bin Sober (4,973 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

15. Maybe try over at this site:

http://www.terrylove.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?9-Electrical-Forum-discussions

I use it quite a bit.

It's a pretty good DIY help site. Though the pro electricians can get cranky if they think you are over your head and dangerous to yourself.

dweller (12,418 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

16. thanks, posted there

will try to stay in the safety of my head and not a danger to myself.

Hassin Bin Sober (4,973 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

17. Cool. Make sure you are using the proper equipment when testing/working...

... around the service. I've been reading some eye-opening stuff on multi-meter injuries. One of the Pros on that site says the multi-meter is the most dangerous tool you own - maybe a bit of hyperbole. Cat II is the minimum for household wiring but even their own directions say you have to be 30 plus wire-feet from the sevice. Otherwise a Cat III or IIII is in order.

dweller (12,418 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

18. all figured out and it's ugly

Need a new underground wire, water has invaded and corroded a wire in half.

so, camping with battery power, and propane. wheeeee.

Wash. state Desk Jet (1,746 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

19. Good luck with that

Ran into something to that end some odd 20 years ago on the grounds of a condominium association. Had to hire five guys to dig a very very wide and deep hole to China it seemed. Power lines crossing gas lines and fire mains ,what a mess.It seemed to me the code book was thrown away when those units were built.
The plumbing outfit backed out of the dig because of liabilitiy's.

Originally it was thought the problem was just a leaking fire main,but mysteriousely the outdoor lighting was disrupted and some other electrical issues too ! The condo association people thought I might be able to track down the electrical issues, little did they or know or did I know it was going to become a massive digging operation with shovels !

But somebody's got to do it !

Needless to say a backhoe was out of the question and the blue prints were not at all accurate about the locations of those power lines in relation to those gas lines or those water lines underground.The plumbing outfit guy handed me the prints and pointed to x marks the spot to start to the best guess he or they had ! Good luck he said and have several fire extingushers handy just in case !

Don't know that a underground electrical patch would be the fix- if so that would cost less than restringing the line.Underground electrical patchs are code rated and if the damage is confined to a specific area -say root bound ,than it;s a matter of pin pointing that particular point in the line.
perhaps a long shot ,but it may offer a glimmer of hope in realtion to cost of repair.

I Imagine that will depend upon what it all looks like when the line is exposed.

[Rugnuts]

i would have thought these types would only accept a Union electrician to take care of this issue.

whats with all these backstabbers offering none-dues-paying advice????

[jukin]

i would have thought these types would only accept a Union electrician to take care of this issue.

whats with all these backstabbers offering none-dues-paying advice????

Beat me to it!

Funny how the DUches demand everyone else use overpriced union labor except when it comes to themselves.  Just like taxes and soaking social services. They do represent the worst of the "ME" generation.

DVMs are safe up to 1000VRMS. After that you need special probes.

I would be concerned about getting 135VAC on the other leg as much as the 85VAC. Sounds to me like the ground/neutral is floating. Happens all the time in 120VAC service houses that have knob and tube wiring two wire (no ground).  Because the leg to leg looks like it is 220. I'd look first at the water heater for problems as it is the biggest pig of energy.

[Carl]

Stick two paper clips into a wall outlet DUmmy,it will fix everything for you. 

[MrsSmith]

Ran into something to that end some odd 20 years ago on the grounds of a condominium association. Had to hire five guys to dig a very very wide and deep hole to China it seemed. Power lines crossing gas lines and fire mains ,what a mess.It seemed to me the code book was thrown away when those units were built.

Seriously?  Why would you dig up the old line to look for a bad spot?  Why wouldn't you just run a new line?   

[BEG]

Speaking of electrical issues, we have had the breaker trip several times up in the game room (the actual panel is in the garage). They sent someone out (new house) and the electrician (who was a great guy and very informative) said that all new builders are required to use these new circuit breakers that have something like a tiny micro processor in them and any fluctuation in power trips it...but not always, it's not consistent.  It can trip several times a day or it can trip one day and not trip for three weeks. First he confirmed that too much wasn't wired to one circuit then he asked me if anyone used a laptop up in the room (my daughter does).  Laptops (plugged in obviously) are notorious for tripping the new breakers (which my daughter frequently does). He HATES them, said they aren't ready for prime time but the government insists on controlling our lives so the result is shitty ass circuit breakers that were rushed to market, that cost a lot more than the old ones that actually work.  He also bitched about these stupid new plugs that are a PITA to plug anything into. Our builder also complained about the plugs when he did the walk though. 

The electrician said the government is here to save us from ourselves. I think this is one Union electrician who didn't vote for Obama.

[NHSparky]

In an all-electric house, look at the stove, dryer, and water heater, and well pump.  Those are your biggest loads by far, DUmmies.  The fact you have an intermittent fault is not a good thing, but go ahead and keep that shit plugged in and running on an 85-volt supply.  Have fun replacing all your burned out shit afterwards.  I'm also guessing the DUmmie hasn't isolated loads or checked his breaker panel.

And also, DUmmies, if you set your multimeter on ohms and you try to measure voltage, your meter will go KABOOM.  So it's not the meter that's dangerous, it's YOU.

Frankly, I wouldn't use anything that isn't rated Cat III to 1000 volts or Cat IV to 600 volts.  Those cheap pieces of shit you get from Radio Shack are just that--shit.  Spend a few bucks and get a Fluke.

[Vagabond]

I wonder if this DUmmie has ever heard of Ohm's law.  I also wonder if he knows he can't break it like a drug law.  He definitely needed to start circuit isolation.

[LC EFA]

I wonder if this DUmmie has ever heard of Ohm's law.  I also wonder if he knows he can't break it like a drug law.  He definitely needed to start circuit isolation.

Ohms law ?

You mean the law that states the minimum number of "ohms" one must utter while sitting around the meditation candle , stoned to the eyeballs ?