Not sure if this is the right forum for this; but I have a resume question

[dixierose]

Hi all,

I am currently looking for a job; and, thank goodness, there are several positions that I am qualified for.

I have a question about submitting my resume. As y'all know, most (if not all) jobs use the internet and/or email for resume submission. Can I use the body of the email as my cover letter, or should I attach a separate word document as a cover letter? I also need help writing a good cover letter. Do any of y'all have any links to sites I can check out some samples? All of the sites I saw charged for this. I really appreciate any help, suggestions, and information y'all can share. I like lounging here, but I'd rater be at work right now

[Chris_]

I usually submit mine seperately.  Not that a cover letter has ever done me a bit of good.

[dixierose]

I read somewhere that cover letters are "going out of style" with some companies. They don't even read them. But other companies don't even read the resume if the cover letter isn't any good. I'm not sure how to "win" this one. I just plan on sending cover letters with everything, if they read it, they read it. Better to be safe than sorry.

My thought on making the cover letter the body of the email is that it is definitely tailored to that employer. I know that some people just use a blanket cover letter for everyone, and that's not a good idea (IMO).

[Maxiest]

I just used the body of my email as my cover sheet.  It was only a few sentences, just enough to tease them and persuade them to open my attached resume.

[dixierose]

One more question...do you attach references, or wait until they ask for them? I also have a letter of recommendation from an old boss. Is it okay to attach that as well?

[Eupher]

One more question...do you attach references, or wait until they ask for them? I also have a letter of recommendation from an old boss. Is it okay to attach that as well?

I've done a lot of this sort of thing, so I'll offer a few suggestions:

First off, I've NEVER had any sort of luck by submitting my resume to a company's web site. I'd strongly suggest you NOT do that and instead, talk to a few recruiters first. What I've found is, a recruiter won't even talk to you if you've submitted your resume to a company's web site in response to a job.

Secondly, if you do decide to submit, your cover letter (and yes, you should write one) should be TARGETED toward what they're looking for and specifically how you can meet that need. It need not be lengthy - a couple/three paragraphs tops.

Your resume should be no more than two pages at absolute most. Why? Because resume readers won't really go beyond the first page anyway, and if it goes beyond two, it'll often get dumped in the circular file. You've got to learn to summarize your job positions.

Dates of employment - gotta be there. If there's a gap, they'll want to know about it if you make it past the first cut.

References - NEVER put them on your resume and don't add that stupid comment "References available on request." If you make it to the hiring stage, they'll make you fill out an application anyway and THAT'S where you record your references.

Phone numbers: Don't preface it by saying "Phone number: 212-123-4567" They know what a phone number looks like.

Email: get rid of the goofy "wannagetlaid@comcast.net" and create a professional-sounding email on one of those free sites like Yahoo or Hotmail. Definitely do NOT use your company's email for job hunting purposes. That's an invitation to disaster.

Job searches are a full time job in and of themselves. It takes organizational ability and perseverance. Good luck!

[Maxiest]

One more question...do you attach references, or wait until they ask for them? I also have a letter of recommendation from an old boss. Is it okay to attach that as well?

IMO, it wouldn't hurt to attach all of that. Good things is when they get the email they will have the separate attachments and they can choose to open them or not.  One plus of emailing resumes is they can decided what they want to look at instead of pulling 5 pages of crap off of a fax machine or that is just laid on their desk.

[Eupher]

A letter of recommendation is not indicated unless it's asked for, especially during the initial phase. Just hold on to it and offer it during the interview should the opportunity present itself.

[dixierose]

I've done a lot of this sort of thing, so I'll offer a few suggestions:

First off, I've NEVER had any sort of luck by submitting my resume to a company's web site. I'd strongly suggest you NOT do that and instead, talk to a few recruiters first. What I've found is, a recruiter won't even talk to you if you've submitted your resume to a company's web site in response to a job.

Secondly, if you do decide to submit, your cover letter (and yes, you should write one) should be TARGETED toward what they're looking for and specifically how you can meet that need. It need not be lengthy - a couple/three paragraphs tops.

Your resume should be no more than two pages at absolute most. Why? Because resume readers won't really go beyond the first page anyway, and if it goes beyond two, it'll often get dumped in the circular file. You've got to learn to summarize your job positions.

Dates of employment - gotta be there. If there's a gap, they'll want to know about it if you make it past the first cut.

References - NEVER put them on your resume and don't add that stupid comment "References available on request." If you make it to the hiring stage, they'll make you fill out an application anyway and THAT'S where you record your references.

Phone numbers: Don't preface it by saying "Phone number: 212-123-4567" They know what a phone number looks like.

Email: get rid of the goofy "wannagetlaid@comcast.net" and create a professional-sounding email on one of those free sites like Yahoo or Hotmail. Definitely do NOT use your company's email for job hunting purposes. That's an invitation to disaster.

Job searches are a full time job in and of themselves. It takes organizational ability and perseverance. Good luck!

Wow...thanks for that advice. Luckily, a lot of that I have already done (or not done, whatever the case may be).

When you mention recruiters, are you talking agencies such as Manpower, Aerotek, etc? I have resumes in with all of the local agencies that I am aware of.

[Eupher]

Wow...thanks for that advice. Luckily, a lot of that I have already done (or not done, whatever the case may be).

When you mention recruiters, are you talking agencies such as Manpower, Aerotek, etc? I have resumes in with all of the local agencies that I am aware of.

Recruiters tend to be specific to your career field. If you're in a technical field like computer programming, for example, there will be recruiters (sometimes called "headhunters") that specifically recruit fine candidates for job openings that they know of. They are usually always looking for talent.

Suggest you get on the internet and do a search for recruiters in your career field and make a few calls.

They'll want to talk to you and certainly they'll want your resume.

The cool thing about recruiters is, they're paid not by you (NEVER get into that sort of thing) but by the company that's hiring.

[Eupher]

Now that I think about it, yeah, I guess Aerotek is a service that is in the recruiting business. Manpower sounds like it might be too, but I'd try to get hold of a person rather than an entire office.

[dixierose]

Thanks for your help!

[DumbAss Tanker]

The value of the cover letter (Or email content in lieu of a separate document) is to speak to them persuasively about how excited you would be to work at such a great place in particular, as opposed to the more general (Not company-specific) content in your resume and/or curriculum vitae.

Send it, either within the email or in an additional document.  If they don't read them, they'll disregard it and no harm done.  If they do expect one and you don't provide anything but the resume, you're toast.   

[longview]

Up until this position, I used to continuously hustle new contracts.  I was told almost every time that my cover letter got me the job.  Mine are brief - 10 sentences or less.  I state what I can do for the company with the skills and experience that are listed on the resume.  My skills, on paper look like every other therapist's with similar years in the field.  Nothing wild.

One of my kids just applied for a job that she isn't qualified for.  She got it because her cover letter indicated that she had goals that wouldn't show up on any resume.  Again, it was very brief.  Maybe 5 or 6 sentences.

Lots of white space = easy to read.  So easy a glance gives information.

If you're applying to a large company efficiency standards for HR employees don't allow time for reading essays.  They may not usually even read covers, but it can't hurt and if a phrase or two catches their eye it may help your resume get read.  Or even put a subconscious thought/feeling (hopefully positive!) behind the reading of the resume.

Best wishes in your job search and new job!

[whiffleball]

The advice here is spot on according to my husband who is in the business of finding jobs for students and working with recruiters.

Do send a cover letter.  Spend time on it whether you think they'll read it or not.  Make it specific to the position applied for.  Don't go over 1 page.  Use any pertinent, brief examples of work history.  Tell them why they should hire you.

Keep the resume 1 page.  No references, etc. until asked.  Do not include information which may be taken as controversial; Sierra Club or John Birch membership for example.  Use common sense in that arena.

Schedule informational interviews.  It may seem like a waste of time, but he's seen them pay dividends for the job seeker.

Best of luck!!

[Karin]

I believe in cover letters because it makes it look like a "complete package," not just email spam.  This shows you're thorough and professional.  I think it should be able to be read in about 30 seconds.  The person looking at these things probably has a stack.  So, keep it brief, and have a critical editor's eye when you review it.  Sentences nicely compact and constructed. 

And just a point about resumes.  A powerful feature in the bullet points are big quantifiable goals that were set and reached.  If you can build numbers into them, it's impressive.  Increased sales by ____;  Reduced turnaround time by ___%; Decreased costs by ____; Increased client portfolio by ____; and the like.  It can be done with almost any field.   

[Eupher]

I believe in cover letters because it makes it look like a "complete package," not just email spam.  This shows you're thorough and professional.  I think it should be able to be read in about 30 seconds.  The person looking at these things probably has a stack.  So, keep it brief, and have a critical editor's eye when you review it.  Sentences nicely compact and constructed. 

And just a point about resumes.  A powerful feature in the bullet points are big quantifiable goals that were set and reached.  If you can build numbers into them, it's impressive.  Increased sales by ____;  Reduced turnaround time by ___%; Decreased costs by ____; Increased client portfolio by ____; and the like.  It can be done with almost any field.   

Excellent point, Karin. Metrics are the way of the world today. Everything is measured and most every job has a standard or a goal associated with it. Gone are words like "Excellent communicator" and "Conscientious worker". Flabby words like those measure nothing and say little.

It's sometimes tough to come up with that kind of data, but these things can be estimated, as well. Come up with your best figure and run with it, but be prepared to defend it.

[Karin]

I love metrics, and am naturally drawn to them.  Here are some I've used:

Led a ____team which etc. etc, which reduced controllable costs by 10%.
[Strategy team] did such and such,....increasing the profitability of segment by 33%.
Developed _____ blah blah blah, improved profit per machine hour by 10%.
Streamlined x.x.x., reducing closing time by three days. 

Yes, you're going to have to estimate, but if it makes sense, and is not bullshit, and can be backed up plausibly, it's a winner. 

[Gratiot]

Any thoughts on how long to wait before calling a company after submitting a resume, for a follow up check? 

I'm drafting my resume now as well, first time, well... ever essentially.

[BEG]

I believe in cover letters because it makes it look like a "complete package," not just email spam.  This shows you're thorough and professional.  I think it should be able to be read in about 30 seconds.  The person looking at these things probably has a stack.  So, keep it brief, and have a critical editor's eye when you review it.  Sentences nicely compact and constructed. 

And just a point about resumes.  A powerful feature in the bullet points are big quantifiable goals that were set and reached.  If you can build numbers into them, it's impressive.  Increased sales by ____;  Reduced turnaround time by ___%; Decreased costs by ____; Increased client portfolio by ____; and the like.  It can be done with almost any field.   

When my husband was redoing his resume last year I remember him saying that he had to figure out the "numbers" for his resume. He hadn't had to update his resume in over 17 years so it was quite an undertaking.

[longview]

Any thoughts on how long to wait before calling a company after submitting a resume, for a follow up check? 

I'm drafting my resume now as well, first time, well... ever essentially.

If my resume dropped on a Monday or Tuesday, I called on Thursday.  Never a Friday.  If a resume would have hit Wednesday, Thursday or Friday, I called the following Tuesday or Wednesday.  I kept it light, talk while smiling, just checking to see that it had been received and if not a "thank you in advance for considering me."

[dixierose]

I appreciate all of the advice. I will use a short, but thorough, cover letter. My resume is pretty strong at a little over 1 page. Thanks for all of your help. Hopefully I won't be on the job search long.

[BEG]

I just asked my husband  He said to wait at least a week, longer if it's a more "professional" position. He said ALWAYS include a cover letter and make it short. Don't BS on the resume because he can spot BS a mile away.

[BEG]

Oh and Good luck Dixierose!

[Gratiot]

I just asked my husband  He said to wait at least a week, longer if it's a more "professional" position. He said ALWAYS include a cover letter and make it short. Don't BS on the resume because he can spot BS a mile away.

Thank you.