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Offline Cyrus

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Arabs and Muslims - My thoughts
« on: December 27, 2011, 04:39:46 PM »
I have noticed in the comments of many news articles that Muslims and Middle Eastern people are confused. To give you an example, an article about a man whose last name was "Hendi" (literally meaning Hindu, the man was an Indian) yet had a Muslim seeming first name and a Middle Eastern appearance received a few hate comments regarding Muslims. I have no problem with people hating Muslims or Islam and in some cases support it. What I do not support is falsely assuming that everyone from the Middle East is a Muslim, especially if they're not even from the Middle East.

I will make a few points. Please feel free to give me your thoughts.

-Arab culture is the root of Islamic backwardness
When one looks at Arab culture he will sees that Arab culture is at the root of Islam. Pedophilia, rape, murder of innocents and so on are all values which were supported by pre-Islamic Arabs and were infused into the Koran. The idea that some Westerners have that pre-Islamic Arabs were peace loving "noble savages" is nonsense. It was the intolerant and proto-Nazi culture of the Arabs that created Islam as it is known today.

-Islam and Arabs
Arab culture is defined by Islam, Arab identity is at its essence Islamic. For an Arab Christian to leave Arab culture he must adopt another culture or fit himself with something like the Coptic culture in Egypt which is different from the Arab-Muslim culture of Egypt. An Arab is defined by his religion, an Indonesian, Malaysian, Pakistani, etc... is not. Take Iranian culture for instance, Iranians have a cultural heritage separate from Islam which they can easily go to, if an Iranian wanted to he could declare himself a proud Zoroastrian with a deep hatred for the subverter's of his culture and civilization (many do), an Arab can't do this because Arab culture and civilization did not exist before Islam. Islamic "civilization" was stolen from surrounding non-Arab cultures and civilizations (take Cordoba, Spain for instance, the architecture of the grand Mosque is exclusively Byzantine Christian).

-Islam and the non-Arabs
Islam spread itself throughout Asia through brutal conquest, rape, and pillage. To be a Muslim is to be an Arab, this is why non-Arab Muslims use Arab mannerisms, and go as far as learning Arabic (a primitive and coarse sounding language, but not coarse in the beautiful way German is coarse). Islam has never spread itself through peace to any non-Arabs yet the average non-Arab Muslim may use a typical Muslim argument along the lines of "before Islam we were ignorant and not in the light of Allah, Islam awakened us from our Paganism" which in reality translates to "Arabs raped and murdered millions of my ancestors and forced us to become Muslim" (see: Islamic conquests of India for an example). The average African Muslim for instance has not studied Islamic history, do you really think he would continue following Islam after learning about what Arab Muslim explorers said about Africans or Islamic racism against Africans? I doubt it. Has the average Turk studied Islamic history and what Muhammad thought of Turks? Ignorance is a key factor of why the world has so many Muslims.

-Islam and Iran
Although Iran is often seen as the most Islamic of all nations, this notion of course coming from the 1979 Iranian revolution which compounded all stratas of Iranian society around a "charismatic" tyrant, Iranian society is far from being Islamic in the sense that a nation like Saudi Arabia is. Iran's most popular holiday is Nowruz, a Pagan/Zoroastrian holiday, this is one example of how deeply embedded pre-Islamic culture is in Iranian society. Iran being a multi-ethnic society hosts several Turkic, Indo-European, and Semitic ethnicities in its borders, however a deep resentment towards Arabs is seen in many stratas of Iranian society. The average Iranian who may be Muslim will identify himself first as Iranian and last as Muslim.

-Islam and India
Indian Muslims are notorious for being one of the most "peaceful" (excluding the numerous terror attacks they've committed on Hindus) Muslims in the world. The reason being is not as a liberal would put it "because Islam is a religion of peace" (nonsense, it's not), but simply because Indian culture and societal norms overshadow the Muslim barbarism found in the foreign alien religion of Islam. Indian Muslims identify themselves firstly as Indian and lastly as Muslim, if they are loyal to Indian culture and the Indian nation, then they can be normal people. However if they see themselves as firstly Muslim and seek to establish a Muslim state (see: Kashmir) then they are obviously the enemies of India.

-The Middle East
Often made out to be a place of evil and hate (dehumanization is a key to winning wars and propaganda comes with that, you can't deny this), the Middle East is not the enemy, Islam is the enemy. Many Western Christians forgot the fact that it is the East which gave rise to many ideas in Christendom. It is often forgotten that the Near East is comprised of lands that hold the deepest cultural histories in the world. Islam is the root of backwardness in the Middle East, Lebanon at one point was regarded as the Paris of the Middle East, the reason for this was not "moderate Islam" (which does not exist) but because of the fact that Lebanon was ruled by its Arab Christian minority at that time, thus allowing freedom, human rights, and Muslims and Christians to live in peace under a semi-Western style government. Compare that to Hezbollah of Lebanon today.

-Making progress
The Middle East today is seemingly more divided between a secular oriented young population which some could call the new generation and an old generation still seeking Islamism and Islamic supremacism which subsequently teaches its values to its children. One can seem optimistic that changes will come, but they will take time, and they will take a great defeat. It was only through mass bloodshed and defeat that Germans learned to become humble after WW2, likewise this will be the fate of Muslims some day.

Huge thanks to my e-friend GordonZ for helping me revise this post for grammatical/spelling errors, etc.. I could not without him!

Offline marv

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Re: Arabs and Muslims - My thoughts
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2011, 04:57:26 PM »
^5
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Arabs and Muslims - My thoughts
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2011, 05:19:43 PM »
Cyrus, you, and others, may be interested in reading this...."What Arab civilization".

http://www.ninevehsoft.com/fiorina.htm
“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of ‘liberalism’, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.” - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948

"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within."  Stalin

Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Arabs and Muslims - My thoughts
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2011, 05:42:17 PM »
More reading if anyone is interested....especially the latter part.

http://www.aina.org/brief.html
“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of ‘liberalism’, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.” - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948

"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within."  Stalin

Offline IassaFTots

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Re: Arabs and Muslims - My thoughts
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2011, 08:29:32 PM »
Cyrus, your posts make me think, a lot.  I appreciate your insight.  I really do.   :cheersmate:
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Offline Gina

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Re: Arabs and Muslims - My thoughts
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2011, 08:35:15 PM »
I really don't give a shit how you have categorized them.  Unless they all denounce Arabs or the evil one's then they are all one in the same.  So there.






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Offline longview

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Re: Arabs and Muslims - My thoughts
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2011, 10:41:23 PM »
Cyrus, your posts make me think, a lot.  I appreciate your insight.  I really do.   :cheersmate:

Same here.

Offline CactusCarlos

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Re: Arabs and Muslims - My thoughts
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2011, 09:26:56 AM »
Cyrus, your posts make me think, a lot.  I appreciate your insight.  I really do.   :cheersmate:

Ditto here.
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened."
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Offline Toastedturningtidelegs

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Re: Arabs and Muslims - My thoughts
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2011, 11:08:12 AM »
I really don't give a shit how you have categorized them.  Unless they all denounce Arabs or the evil one's then they are all one in the same.  So there.
Ever talked with an assyrian/chaldean? They have a deep abiding hatred of arabs/muslims and can tell you horrific stories about how they are treated by muslims if they dare speak against it in their native lands. September 11th 2001 as horrific and life changing as it was and is, was one day. Try living with that intolerance of your very existance on a daily basis most of your life for the simple reason that you are either Christian/Catholic. Trust me Gina they are alot more in touch with that evil than we will ever be. I think what Cyrus is trying to get across to those of us with little knowledge of the middle east is that the middle east doesn't = muslim/islam. There are Christians  there who have been suffering there under islamic oppression for 1400 years i believe. I understand why these folks aren't as vocal in their hatred for radical islam as we in this country are. They have alot more skin in the game since many of them still have family living in these countries. JMHO
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Offline CactusCarlos

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Re: Arabs and Muslims - My thoughts
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2011, 01:59:00 PM »
Ever talked with an assyrian/chaldean? They have a deep abiding hatred of arabs/muslims and can tell you horrific stories about how they are treated by muslims if they dare speak against it in their native lands. September 11th 2001 as horrific and life changing as it was and is, was one day. Try living with that intolerance of your very existance on a daily basis most of your life for the simple reason that you are either Christian/Catholic. Trust me Gina they are alot more in touch with that evil than we will ever be. I think what Cyrus is trying to get across to those of us with little knowledge of the middle east is that the middle east doesn't = muslim/islam. There are Christians  there who have been suffering there under islamic oppression for 1400 years i believe. I understand why these folks aren't as vocal in their hatred for radical islam as we in this country are. They have alot more skin in the game since many of them still have family living in these countries. JMHO

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Offline Gina

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Re: Arabs and Muslims - My thoughts
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2011, 06:51:44 AM »
Ever talked with an assyrian/chaldean? They have a deep abiding hatred of arabs/muslims and can tell you horrific stories about how they are treated by muslims if they dare speak against it in their native lands. September 11th 2001 as horrific and life changing as it was and is, was one day. Try living with that intolerance of your very existance on a daily basis most of your life for the simple reason that you are either Christian/Catholic. Trust me Gina they are alot more in touch with that evil than we will ever be. I think what Cyrus is trying to get across to those of us with little knowledge of the middle east is that the middle east doesn't = muslim/islam. There are Christians  there who have been suffering there under islamic oppression for 1400 years i believe. I understand why these folks aren't as vocal in their hatred for radical islam as we in this country are. They have alot more skin in the game since many of them still have family living in these countries. JMHO

I wasn't even speaking of Christians.  I was speaking about any muslim know matter what branch of the religion they use that do not speak out.






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Offline Toastedturningtidelegs

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Re: Arabs and Muslims - My thoughts
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2011, 09:40:28 AM »
I wasn't even speaking of Christians.  I was speaking about any muslim know matter what branch of the religion they use that do not speak out.
The same thing would happen to a muslim who spoke against islam. As a Christian living in the U.S you really don't have to worry about having your head sawed off or being raped and tortured if you speak out against other Christians...that doesn't happen here. It's very easy for an American Christian to sit back and pass judgement on muslims or middle eastern people in general when they live under the protective umbrella of the most powerful military the world has ever seen. People in the middle east don't have that luxury.Like i said they have alot more skin in the game than we do....I understand their reticence to speak out...It could mean death for them or their loved ones.
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Offline Gina

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Re: Arabs and Muslims - My thoughts
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2011, 09:47:04 AM »
The same thing would happen to a muslim who spoke against islam. As a Christian living in the U.S you really don't have to worry about having your head sawed off or being raped and tortured if you speak out against other Christians...that doesn't happen here. It's very easy for an American Christian to sit back and pass judgement on muslims or middle eastern people in general when they live under the protective umbrella of the most powerful military the world has ever seen. People in the middle east don't have that luxury.Like i said they have alot more skin in the game than we do....I understand their reticence to speak out...It could mean death for them or their loved ones.

So I have heard that there is only a very small percentage of the muslim/Islam faith that hold such extreme ideas of terrorism.  Yet there are "billions"? of muslims, correct?  Yet they do not have the ability to rise up?  kill those that they know are ruining their lives and faith? 

      “The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it.”
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"An army of deer led by a lion is more to be feared than an army of lions led by a deer." Phillip of Macedonia, father to Alexander.

Offline Toastedturningtidelegs

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Re: Arabs and Muslims - My thoughts
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2011, 10:02:55 AM »
So I have heard that there is only a very small percentage of the muslim/Islam faith that hold such extreme ideas of terrorism.  Yet there are "billions"? of muslims, correct?  Yet they do not have the ability to rise up?  kill those that they know are ruining their lives and faith? 

      “The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it.”
 Albert Einstein
 

Yes it is a small percentage....but they apparently hold alot of money and power as they haven't given up fighting us after 10 years. Interesting you bringing up Albert Einstein as he never had to live under the rule of Adolf Hitler. He came here in the early 30's and never went back to Germany...Again armchair quarterbacking at it's finest. He was in no danger from the Nazis living in the U.S.
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Offline Gina

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Re: Arabs and Muslims - My thoughts
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2011, 10:11:38 AM »
Ok you win. 






"An army of deer led by a lion is more to be feared than an army of lions led by a deer." Phillip of Macedonia, father to Alexander.

Offline Toastedturningtidelegs

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Re: Arabs and Muslims - My thoughts
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2011, 10:30:44 AM »
Ok you win. 
Wasn't really trying to win hon. I have friends who are from places in the middle east where islamic rule is in place and they have told me horror stories about what goes on over there for the smallest infraction against islam. They are sunni muslims,coptic christians,chaldean catholics...they all have told me various stories about the insanity that happens on an almost daily basis there. Frightening stuff. :cheersmate:
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Offline Gina

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Re: Arabs and Muslims - My thoughts
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2011, 10:39:10 AM »
Wasn't really trying to win hon. I have friends who are from places in the middle east where islamic rule is in place and they have told me horror stories about what goes on over there for the smallest infraction against islam. They are sunni muslims,coptic christians,chaldean catholics...they all have told me various stories about the insanity that happens on an almost daily basis there. Frightening stuff. :cheersmate:

What is holding back the American Muslims/ UK Muslims and other democratic country Muslims from speaking out when these terrorists use their religion to kill innocents then?  Why aren't they in the media on the front page condeming their actions and telling other Muslims that this is not what their religion is about?






"An army of deer led by a lion is more to be feared than an army of lions led by a deer." Phillip of Macedonia, father to Alexander.

Offline thundley4

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Re: Arabs and Muslims - My thoughts
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2011, 10:43:36 AM »
What is holding back the American Muslims/ UK Muslims and other democratic country Muslims from speaking out when these terrorists use their religion to kill innocents then?  Why aren't they in the media on the front page condeming their actions and telling other Muslims that this is not what their religion is about?


Maybe they are afraid of the dangerous ones, too.

Offline Toastedturningtidelegs

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Re: Arabs and Muslims - My thoughts
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2011, 11:55:40 AM »
What is holding back the American Muslims/ UK Muslims and other democratic country Muslims from speaking out when these terrorists use their religion to kill innocents then?  Why aren't they in the media on the front page condeming their actions and telling other Muslims that this is not what their religion is about?
From what i have been told if the wrong person hears you "speak out" it could have dire consequences for your folks back in your country of origin....These people are maniacs Gina. No such thing as "free speech" when you are from a country run by islam.
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Offline Gable72

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Re: Arabs and Muslims - My thoughts
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2011, 09:59:45 AM »
What is holding back the American Muslims/ UK Muslims and other democratic country Muslims from speaking out when these terrorists use their religion to kill innocents then?  Why aren't they in the media on the front page condeming their actions and telling other Muslims that this is not what their religion is about?

With the media in this country, I wouldn't be surprised if they are trying to speak out but no one wants to report it.