Clinton Camp Says It Will Use The Nuclear Option (FL & MI -- HuffPo warning)

[Wretched Excess]

Lauri and I are on the spot for this one;  we predicted it on FL & MI primary night.

and i find myself reading the huffington post much more often that I ever thought I would;  which
was never, but still . . . . makes me fell funny.

Clinton Camp Says It Will Use The Nuclear Option

Hillary Clinton's campaign today acknowledged plans to try to win seating of the disputed Michigan and Florida delegations to the Democratic Nation Convention at a meeting of the party's Rules and Bylaws Committee on May 31.

In a statement issued in response to a story on The Huffington Post ("Clinton Camp Considering Nuclear Option," see below), the campaign declared:

    "There is no secret plan.... The Clinton campaign has been vocal in stating that the votes of 2.5 million people must be respected. Hardly a day goes by when a Clinton official doesn't publicly declare that the votes of Michigan and Florida count and that the delegations from those states should be seated."

The campaign's public assertions stand in contrast to its response to inquiries prior to publication of the story. At that point, Clinton aides insisted on keeping all comments either off the record or on deep background, or did not respond to questions at all. The campaign statement appeared to be designed to try to reduce the significance of the story.

In a more typical reaction to the story, political analyst Larry Sabato of the University of Virginia said: "Wow. The nuclear option will yield nuclear winter for the Democratic Party."

---

Hillary Clinton's campaign has a secret weapon to build its delegate count, but her top strategists say privately that any attempt to deploy it would require a sharp (and by no means inevitable) shift in the political climate within Democratic circles by the end of this month.

With at least 50 percent of the Democratic Party's 30-member Rules and Bylaws Committee committed to Clinton, her backers could -- when the committee meets at the end of this month -- try to ram through a decision to seat the disputed 210-member Florida and 156-member Michigan delegations. Such a decision would give Clinton an estimated 55 or more delegates than Obama, according to Clinton campaign operatives. The Obama campaign has declined to give an estimate.

Using the Rules and Bylaws Committee to force the seating of two pro-Hillary delegations would provoke a massive outcry from Obama forces. Such a strategy would, additionally, face at least two other major hurdles, and could only be attempted, according to sources in the Clinton camp, under specific circumstances:

First, this coming Tuesday, Clinton would have to win Indiana and lose North Carolina by a very small margin - or better yet, win the Tar Heel state. She would also have to demonstrate continued strength in the contests before May 31.

Second, and equally important, her argument that she is a better general election candidate than Obama -- that he has major weaknesses which have only been recently revealed -- would have to rapidly gain traction, not only within the media, where she has experienced some success, but within the broad activist ranks of the Democratic Party.

Under that optimistic scenario, some Clinton operatives believe she could overcome several massive stumbling blocks:

-- Clinton loyalists on the Rules Committee would have to be persuaded to put their political futures on the line by defying major party constituencies, especially black leaders backing Barack Obama. Committee members are unlikely to take such a step unless they are convinced that Clinton has a strong chance of winning the nomination.

Former DNC and South Carolina Democratic Party chair Donald Fowler -- a Hillary loyalist -- would, for example, face an outpouring of anger from South Carolina Democrats if he were to go along with such a strategy.

-- A controversial decision to seat the two delegations, as currently constituted, would be appealed by the Obama campaign to the Democratic National Convention's Credentials Committee.

The full make-up of the Credentials Committee will not be determined until all the primaries are completed, but the pattern of Clinton and Obama victories so far clearly suggests that Obama delegates on that committee will outnumber Clinton delegates. Obama will not, however, have a majority, according to most estimates, and the balance of power will be held by delegates appointed by DNC chair Howard Dean.

For the scenario to work, then, Dean would have to be convinced of Clinton's superior viability in the general election, and that she has a strong chance of defeating McCain next November.

One of the arguments the Clinton campaign is privately making to autonomous "super" or "automatic" delegates, as well as to delegates technically "pledged" to Obama as a result of primary and caucus results, is that the campaign shifted dramatically in roughly mid-February. At that point, Clinton supporters contend, the economy replaced Iraq as the dominant issue among primary voters, and that transition led to Clinton's successes in Ohio, Texas and Pennsylvania.

Clinton people also make the case that the past six weeks have seen examples of Obama's political vulnerabilities: his wife's "proud to be an American" remarks, the emergence of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright controversy, wider coverage of Obama's ties to 1960s radicals Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn, "bittergate," the flag pin imbroglio, and "hand on the heart" accusations -- all impugning Obama's patriotism.


Much More

[DixieBelle]

I'm not surprised at all by this move.

I always wear a clothespin when I surf the Po.

[Lacarnut]

Looks like the Beast is in it to the bitter end.

[Chris_]

Looks like the Beast is in it to the bitter end. :fuelfire: :hammer: :evillaugh:

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Operation Chaos -- the project that keeps on giving!

[franksolich]

I think it all depends upon what happens tomorrow, in North Carolina and Indiana.

There's always been a gut instinct that Messalina Agrippina "has something" on Barry "Goldwater" Obama, something really big, the Big One.

But Messalina Agrippina is sharp; she knows politics.

She hasn't ever dropped the Big One because she doesn't want to use it unless ABSOLUTELY necessary to get the Democrat nomination, and being sharp, she knows she needs the votes and support of the Obamaites to come close to winning in November.

And so the Big One is a last-resort.

I have no idea what the Big One is, other than that it's out there, loaded, and ready to drop.

I think tomorrow will bring it closer to happening.

Of course, it might not happen at all; there's still a chance the saner elements within the Democrat party will take Barry "Goldwater" Obama aside, and reminding him how divisive he's been to the Democrats, force him to drop out of the race.

[Wretched Excess]

conventional wisdom says she wins IN and runs close in NC.  unless she gets blown out in NC, and
gets beat at all in IN, she's going on to KY and WV, where she is up by 20 points.

apparently, that's where all the racists live.


now, I don't know any better than you do, but if they had a big one, I would think they would have
dropped it on him by now.  she has been on the verge of extinction since TX, but you never know.
where the clintons are involved, maximum cynicism is in order.

[franksolich]

The nature of the Big One, I'm assuming, can take down Messalina Agrippina as well as Barry "Goldwater" Obama; that's why I don't think it's been used yet.

We know the mentality of the Clintons--and of the Obamaites--and know that if they can't have something, they don't want the other guy to have it, either.

I think that when the Big One would be dropped; when Messalina Agrippina assumes she has no chance (which apparently she and franksolich think she still does), and so if she can't have it, well, Barry "Goldwater" Obama's not going to have it either.

I suspect the Big One is something that Barry "Goldwater" Obama did while nobody was looking, and it was something that would outrage just about everybody.

[Lord Undies]

The nature of the Big One, I'm assuming, can take down Messalina Agrippina as well as Barry "Goldwater" Obama; that's why I don't think it's been used yet.

We know the mentality of the Clintons--and of the Obamaites--and know that if they can't have something, they don't want the other guy to have it, either.

I think that when the Big One would be dropped; when Messalina Agrippina assumes she has no chance (which apparently she and franksolich think she still does), and so if she can't have it, well, Barry "Goldwater" Obama's not going to have it either.

I suspect the Big One is something that Barry "Goldwater" Obama did while nobody was looking, and it was something that would outrage just about everybody.

Like I said, I think HC now has her eye on 2012.  She is damaged goods in 2008. 

She isn't going to be trying to unseat an incumbent democrat president in '12 either.  She will make sure of that.

My gut tells me Obama won't be able to win School Crossing Guard by the first or second week in June.  President McCain is a sure thing.     

[Wretched Excess]

The nature of the Big One, I'm assuming, can take down Messalina Agrippina as well as Barry "Goldwater" Obama; that's why I don't think it's been used yet.

We know the mentality of the Clintons--and of the Obamaites--and know that if they can't have something, they don't want the other guy to have it, either.

I think that when the Big One would be dropped; when Messalina Agrippina assumes she has no chance (which apparently she and franksolich think she still does), and so if she can't have it, well, Barry "Goldwater" Obama's not going to have it either.

I suspect the Big One is something that Barry "Goldwater" Obama did while nobody was looking, and it was something that would outrage just about everybody.

one wonders if anything sticks to Baroque Obama.  nothing has so far;  after each one of these bizarre revelations about he and his associates, there has been a very small blip in the polls, and then he goes back to more or less where he was before the blip occurred. 

I suppose he hasn't returned to where he was before this last Right Rev. Wright thing happened yet . . .

(Happy 2K posts w00t, buy the way )

[Wretched Excess]

The nature of the Big One, I'm assuming, can take down Messalina Agrippina as well as Barry "Goldwater" Obama; that's why I don't think it's been used yet.

We know the mentality of the Clintons--and of the Obamaites--and know that if they can't have something, they don't want the other guy to have it, either.

I think that when the Big One would be dropped; when Messalina Agrippina assumes she has no chance (which apparently she and franksolich think she still does), and so if she can't have it, well, Barry "Goldwater" Obama's not going to have it either.

I suspect the Big One is something that Barry "Goldwater" Obama did while nobody was looking, and it was something that would outrage just about everybody.

Like I said, I think HC now has her eye on 2012.  She is damaged goods in 2008. 

She isn't going to be trying to unseat an incumbent democrat president in '12 either.  She will make sure of that.

My gut tells me Obama won't be able to win School Crossing Guard by the first or second week in June.  President McCain is a sure thing.     

that was on her mind in 2004, I think.

won't she be 138 in 2012?

[Lord Undies]

The nature of the Big One, I'm assuming, can take down Messalina Agrippina as well as Barry "Goldwater" Obama; that's why I don't think it's been used yet.

We know the mentality of the Clintons--and of the Obamaites--and know that if they can't have something, they don't want the other guy to have it, either.

I think that when the Big One would be dropped; when Messalina Agrippina assumes she has no chance (which apparently she and franksolich think she still does), and so if she can't have it, well, Barry "Goldwater" Obama's not going to have it either.

I suspect the Big One is something that Barry "Goldwater" Obama did while nobody was looking, and it was something that would outrage just about everybody.

Like I said, I think HC now has her eye on 2012.  She is damaged goods in 2008. 

She isn't going to be trying to unseat an incumbent democrat president in '12 either.  She will make sure of that.

My gut tells me Obama won't be able to win School Crossing Guard by the first or second week in June.  President McCain is a sure thing.     

that was on her mind in 2004, I think.

won't she be 138 in 2012?

I believe she turns 66 in 2012.  That is why 2012 is truly her last chance, and she knows it. 

[Lacarnut]

If the magic negro has had any extra marital escapades recently, one of the Hildabeast's stooges will drop the shoe; her surprise and astonishment will be worthy of an academy award. 

[Wretched Excess]

The nature of the Big One, I'm assuming, can take down Messalina Agrippina as well as Barry "Goldwater" Obama; that's why I don't think it's been used yet.

We know the mentality of the Clintons--and of the Obamaites--and know that if they can't have something, they don't want the other guy to have it, either.

I think that when the Big One would be dropped; when Messalina Agrippina assumes she has no chance (which apparently she and franksolich think she still does), and so if she can't have it, well, Barry "Goldwater" Obama's not going to have it either.

I suspect the Big One is something that Barry "Goldwater" Obama did while nobody was looking, and it was something that would outrage just about everybody.

Like I said, I think HC now has her eye on 2012.  She is damaged goods in 2008. 

She isn't going to be trying to unseat an incumbent democrat president in '12 either.  She will make sure of that.

My gut tells me Obama won't be able to win School Crossing Guard by the first or second week in June.  President McCain is a sure thing.     

that was on her mind in 2004, I think.

won't she be 138 in 2012?

I believe she turns 66 in 2012.  That is why 2012 is truly her last chance, and she knows it. 

she's as young as she feels.




 

[Lord Undies]

[youtube=425,350]5dbshnvztGA[/youtube]

.

[Baruch Menachem]

Lots of really intense emotion on all this.  But the democrats by and large have had a history of getting past this kind of thing.

All you have to do to get them to calm down is repeat the magic number 1968.  The one time they couldn't get past it.

I am of the opinion that the big one has already been dropped and fizzled.

I think by now the Dems are beginning to think if she can't beat Obama, she can't beat anyone.  The party pros are now  working to make an open convention where they can choose someone, anyone, else.   There are dozens of better candidates out there.

[franksolich]

Lots of really intense emotion on all this.  But the democrats by and large have had a history of getting past this kind of thing.

All you have to do to get them to calm down is repeat the magic number 1968.  The one time they couldn't get past it.

I am of the opinion that the big one has already been dropped and fizzled.

I think by now the Dems are beginning to think if she can't beat Obama, she can't beat anyone.  The party pros are now  working to make an open convention where they can choose someone, anyone, else.   There are dozens of better candidates out there.

That's why I haven't been ignoring Harold Dean or Dean Howard or whatever his name is, the little doctor with a Hitler complex.

Stranger things have happened.

I'm saying 3-5% chance, which isn't very good odds, but large enough to be NOT disregarded.

[Baruch Menachem]

What they want is a someone who is a bit of a green whack job, has a reputation for competent administration is a minority and wins his office by large margins.

They badly want to win this, and despite a republican candidate so lame and so embarrassing it looks like they won't.

So my bet is on Gov Richardson.   Whom I probably would vote for, despite his mild wackyness because he is NOT John "Keating" McCain.

[DixieBelle]

I'm surprised that the Hsu donor thing didn't stick at little more to Messalina. It amazes me how easily the Dems dismiss mistakes, lies and character faults in their candidates.

[Wretched Excess]

I'm surprised that the Hsu donor thing didn't stick at little more to Messalina. It amazes me how easily the Dems dismiss mistakes, lies and character faults in their candidates.

selective memory.  either that, or the whole hsu thing was the VRWC corruption/frame machine in operation.

whichever the case, it wasn't their own doing, so it couldn't be their fault.

[Baruch Menachem]

The Hsu doaner thing was small potatoes compared with what happened at Madison Guarantee in terms of corruption, bank fraud, self dealing, and campaign law violations. Let alone such issues as check kiting and the like. The are allowed to skate past everything.

I think the events of this week, where she couldn't win without Limbaugh, have pretty much killed her as a viable candidate.  When it comes to rules changes, she is going to lose badly.   By now, they can't wait to get rid of her.