Author Topic: college football bowl sometimes live, sometimes dead, thread  (Read 9730 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline franksolich

  • Scourge of the Primitives
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58722
  • Reputation: +3102/-173
college football bowl sometimes live, sometimes dead, thread
« on: December 08, 2011, 05:34:39 AM »
Because they're scattered all over the calendar, this thread will sometimes be alive, other times be hibernating, but it's for discussion of all the college football bowl games, Saturday December 17, through Monday January 9.

New Mexico Bowl, December 17, 1:00 p.m. central time
Temple (8-4)-Wyoming (8-4)

Idaho Potato Bowl, December 17, 4:30 p.m. central time
Ohio (9-4)-Utah State (7-5)

New Orleans Bowl, December 17, 8:00 p.m. central time
San Diego State (8-4)-Louisiana-Lafayette (8-4)

Beef O'Brady's Bowl, December 20, 7:00 p.m. central time
Florida International (8-4)-Marshall (6-6)

Poinsetta Bowl, December 21, 7:00 p.m. central time
Texas Christian (10-2)-Louisiana Tech (8-4)

MAACO Bowl, December 22, 7:00 p.m. central time
Arizona State (6-6)-Boise State (11-1)

Hawaii Bowl, December 24, 7:00 p.m. central time
Nevada (7-5)-Southern Mississippi (11-2)

Independence Bowl, December 26, 4:00 p.m. central time
North Carolina (7-5)-Missouri (7-5)

Little Caesar's Bowl, December 27, 3:30 p.m. central time
Western Michigan (7-5)-Purdue (6-6)

Belk Bowl, December 27, 7:00 p.m. central time
Louisville (7-5)-North Carolina State (7-5)

Military Bowl, December 28, 3:30 p.m. central time
Toledo (8-4)-Air Force (7-5)

Holiday Bowl, December 28, 7:00 p.m. central time
California (7-5)-Texas (7-5)

Champs Sports Bowl, December 29, 4:30 p.m. central time
Florida State (8-4)-Notre Dame (8-4)

Alamo Bowl, December 29, 8:00 p.m. central time
Washington (7-5)-Baylor (9-3)

Armed Forces Bowl, December 30, 11:00 a.m. central time
Brigham Young (9-3)-Tulsa (8-4)

Pinstripe Bowl, December 30, 2:20 p.m. central time
Iowa State (6-6)-Rutgers (8-4)

Music City Bowl, December 30, 5:40 p.m. central time
Mississippi State (6-6)-Wake Forest (6-6)

Insight Bowl, December 30, 9:00 p.m. central time
Iowa(7-5)-Oklahoma (9-3)

Meineke Car Care Bowl, December 31, 11:00 a.m. central time
Texas A&M (6-6)-Northwestern (6-6)

Sun Bowl, December 31, 1:00 p.m. central time
Georgia Tech (8-4)-Utah (7-5)

Fight Hunger Bowl, December 31, 2:30 p.m. central time
Illinois (6-6)-UCLA (6-7)

Liberty Bowl, December 31, 2:30 p.m. central time
Cincinnati (9-3)-Vanderbilt (6-6)

Chick-fil-A Bowl, December 31, 6:30 p.m. central time
Virginia (8-4)-Auburn (7-5)

Ticket City Bowl, January 2, 11:00 a.m. central time
Houston (12-1)-Penn State (9-3)

Gator Bowl, January 2, noon central time
Ohio State (6-6)-Florida (6-6)

Outback Bowl, January 2, noon central time
Michigan State (10-3)-Georgia (10-3)

Capital One Bowl, January 2, noon central time
Nebraska (9-3)-South Carolina (10-2)

Rose Bowl, January 2, 4:00 p.m. central time
Wisconsin (11-2)-Oregon (11-2)

Siesta Bowl, January 2, 7:30 p.m. central time
Stanford (11-1)-Oklahoma State (11-1)

Sugar Bowl, January 3, 7:30 p.m. central time
Michigan (10-2)-Virginia Tech (11-2)

Orange Bowl, January 4, 7:30 p.m. central time
West Virginia (9-3)-Clemson (10-3)

Cotton Bowl, January 6, 7:00 p.m. central time
Kansas State (10-2)-Arkansas (10-2)

BBVA Compass Bowl, January 7, noon eastern time
Southern Methodist (7-5)-Pittsburgh (6-6)

GoDaddy.Com Bowl, January 8, 8:00 p.m. central time
Arkansas State (10-2)-Northern Illinois (10-3)

BCS Championship, January 9, 7:30 p.m. central time
Alabama (11-1)-Louisiana State (13-0)
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline franksolich

  • Scourge of the Primitives
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58722
  • Reputation: +3102/-173
Re: college football bowl sometimes live, sometimes dead, thread
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2011, 12:29:58 AM »
December 17, 2011 scores:

New Mexico Bowl
Temple 37, Wyoming 15, final.

Idaho Potato Bowl
Ohio 24, Utah State 23, final.

New Orleans Bowl
San Diego State 30, Louisiana-Lafayette 32, final.

I didn't think anybody'd be interested, so didn't bother animating this thread today.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline BlueStateSaint

  • Here I come to save the day, because I'm a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32553
  • Reputation: +1560/-191
  • RIP FDNY Lt. Rich Nappi d. 4/16/12
Re: college football bowl sometimes live, sometimes dead, thread
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2011, 05:38:13 PM »
Idaho Potato Bowl
Ohio 24, Utah State 23, final.

I caught the last couple of minutes of this one, just to see Coach Solich and Ohio University win their first ever bowl game.  Congrats to the real Coach Frank Solich and the Bobcats of Ohio University. :cheersmate:
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

"All you have to do is look straight and see the road, and when you see it, don't sit looking at it - walk!" -Ayn Rand
 
"Those that trust God with their safety must yet use proper means for their safety, otherwise they tempt Him, and do not trust Him.  God will provide, but so must we also." - Matthew Henry, Commentary on 2 Chronicles 32, from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible

"These anti-gun fools are more dangerous to liberty than street criminals or foreign spies."--Theodore Haas, Dachau Survivor

Chase her.
Chase her even when she's yours.
That's the only way you'll be assured to never lose her.

Offline franksolich

  • Scourge of the Primitives
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58722
  • Reputation: +3102/-173
Re: college football bowl sometimes live, sometimes dead, thread
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2011, 08:18:38 AM »
I of course understand there wasn't much interest in this one:

Best 'O' Brady's Bowl
Florida International 10, Marshall 20, final.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline franksolich

  • Scourge of the Primitives
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58722
  • Reputation: +3102/-173
Re: college football bowl sometimes live, sometimes dead, thread
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2011, 08:22:31 AM »
I caught the last couple of minutes of this one, just to see Coach Solich and Ohio University win their first ever bowl game.  Congrats to the real Coach Frank Solich and the Bobcats of Ohio University.

Yeah, but it's kind of disheartening how it's worked out for him.

If Frank Solich were still the head football coach here, our record since 2002 would've been wholly different.

And by "different," I mean awesomely better.

And then when he went to the University of Ohio, I figured he'd be taking them all over the place, but alas that never happened.  There's probably a lot of internal personal feelings involved here, and it hurts to see a man of impeccable integrity, principle, and solidity decline.

It didn't have to happen; there was no call for the way he was treated.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline franksolich

  • Scourge of the Primitives
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58722
  • Reputation: +3102/-173
Re: college football bowl sometimes live, sometimes dead, thread
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2011, 08:24:49 PM »
Poinsetta Bowl
Texas Christian 31, Lousiana Tech 24, final.

MAACO Bowl
Arizona State 3, Boise State 21, second quarter.

One wonders how Boise State got stuck in a majorly minor bowl game; surely they deserved better.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline franksolich

  • Scourge of the Primitives
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58722
  • Reputation: +3102/-173
Re: college football bowl sometimes live, sometimes dead, thread
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2011, 07:37:10 AM »
MAACO Bowl
Arizona State 24, Boise State 56, final.

I'll bet everybody was sitting on the edge of their seats, waiting for this bowl game.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline franksolich

  • Scourge of the Primitives
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58722
  • Reputation: +3102/-173
Re: college football bowl sometimes live, sometimes dead, thread
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2011, 12:08:17 PM »
Hawaii Bowl
Nevada 17, Southern Mississippi 24, final.

I do know of one person who was interested in this game, and he's happy.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline franksolich

  • Scourge of the Primitives
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58722
  • Reputation: +3102/-173
Re: college football bowl sometimes live, sometimes dead, thread
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2011, 07:30:34 AM »
Independence Bowl
North Carolina 24, Missouri 41, final.

<<still waiting for the important bowl games to begin, although can't figure out why #08 Boise State got stuck in a minor minor bowl earlier.  Something's just not right with that.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline franksolich

  • Scourge of the Primitives
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58722
  • Reputation: +3102/-173
Re: college football bowl sometimes live, sometimes dead, thread
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2011, 10:42:07 AM »
Little Caesar's Bowl
Western Michigan 32, Purdue 37, final.

Belk Bowl
Louisville 24, North Carolina State 31, final.

Military Bowl
Toledo 42, Air Force 41, final.

Holiday Bowl
California 10, Texas 21, final.

Champs Sports Bowl
Florida State 18, Notre Dame 14, final.

Alamo Bowl
Washington 56, Baylor 67, final.

It's a long road to the important, meaningful bowl games.

College football was a great deal more exciting when there was only the Rose Bowl, the Sugar Bowl, the Cotton Bowl, and the Orange Bowl.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline franksolich

  • Scourge of the Primitives
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58722
  • Reputation: +3102/-173
Re: college football bowl sometimes live, sometimes dead, thread
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2011, 01:23:45 PM »
Armed Forces Bowl
Brigham Young 10, Tulsa 14, third quarter.

I'm trying to avoid getting started on writing the #02 top primitive of 2011 award, as I'm still all primitived out.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline franksolich

  • Scourge of the Primitives
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58722
  • Reputation: +3102/-173
Re: college football bowl sometimes live, sometimes dead, thread
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2012, 05:38:32 PM »
Well, congratulations to JohnnyReb's wife, on South Carolina's impressive win today.

Armed Forces Bowl
Brigham Young 24, Tulsa 21, final.

Pinstripe Bowl
Iowa State 13, Rutgers 27, final.

Music City Bowl
Mississippi State 23, Wake Forest 17, final.

Insight Bowl
Iowa 14, Oklahoma 31, final.

Meineke Car Care Bowl
Texas A & M 33, Northwestern 22, final.

Sun Bowl
Georgia Tech 27, Utah 30, final.

Fight Hunger Bowl
Illinois 20, UCLA 14, final.

Liberty Bowl
Cincinnati 31, Vanderbilt 24, final.

Chick-fil-A Bowl
Virginia 24, Auburn 43, final.

TicketCity Bowl
Houston 30, Penn State 14, final.

Gator Bowl
Ohio State 17, Florida 24, final.

Outback Bowl
Michigan State 33, Georgia 30, final.

Capital One Bowl
Nebraska 13, South Carolina 30, final.

Rose Bowl
Wisconsin 28, Oregon 21, second quarter.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline franksolich

  • Scourge of the Primitives
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58722
  • Reputation: +3102/-173
Re: college football bowl sometimes live, sometimes dead, thread
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2012, 06:08:27 PM »
Rose Bowl
Wisconsin 28, Oregon 28, halftime.

Go Wisconsin.  Somebody's got to redeem the Big 10.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline franksolich

  • Scourge of the Primitives
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58722
  • Reputation: +3102/-173
Re: college football bowl sometimes live, sometimes dead, thread
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2012, 06:28:30 PM »
Rose Bowl
Wisconsin 31, Oregon 35, third quarter.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline franksolich

  • Scourge of the Primitives
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58722
  • Reputation: +3102/-173
Re: college football bowl sometimes live, sometimes dead, thread
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2012, 06:45:56 PM »
Rose Bowl
Wisconsin 38, Oregon 35, third quarter.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline JohnnyReb

  • In Memoriam
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32063
  • Reputation: +1998/-134
Re: college football bowl sometimes live, sometimes dead, thread
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2012, 06:47:13 PM »
Thank you Frank...life is good....she just called me to a steak supper...all is well :-)
“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of ‘liberalism’, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.” - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948

"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within."  Stalin

Offline franksolich

  • Scourge of the Primitives
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58722
  • Reputation: +3102/-173
Re: college football bowl sometimes live, sometimes dead, thread
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2012, 06:48:42 PM »
Thank you Frank...life is good....she just called me to a steak supper...all is well :-)

I figured life would be good for you now.

But really, I'm shocked at the magnitude of the loss. 
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline franksolich

  • Scourge of the Primitives
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58722
  • Reputation: +3102/-173
Re: college football bowl sometimes live, sometimes dead, thread
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2012, 07:10:14 PM »
Rose Bowl
Wisconsin 38, Oregon 42, fourth quarter.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline franksolich

  • Scourge of the Primitives
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58722
  • Reputation: +3102/-173
Re: college football bowl sometimes live, sometimes dead, thread
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2012, 09:05:28 PM »
Rose Bowl
Wisconsin 38, Oregon 45, final.

Damn.

You know, Oregon didn't deserve to win that game.

Wisconsin's been playing football since God was a boy; Wisconsin has history and tradition and a record.

When Oregon's played football for a few more generations and decades, Oregon'll get some respect.

But right now, Oregon's just another one of these transient media-created phenomenons, a flash in the pan.

Siesta Bowl
Stanford 14, Oklahoma State 14, second quarter.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline docstew

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4741
  • Reputation: +282/-187
  • My Wife is awesome!
Re: college football bowl sometimes live, sometimes dead, thread
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2012, 06:22:38 AM »
And the SEC has gone 4-2 so far... Guaranteed to finish above .500 no matter what

Offline Odin's Hand

  • is your new god!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5486
  • Reputation: +366/-25
  • Quarters Champion
Re: college football bowl sometimes live, sometimes dead, thread
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2012, 12:40:32 PM »
The Stanford kicker needed to find another means home aside from the team bus.  :lmao:
"Hell is full of good wishes and desires"~St. Bernhard of Clairvaux

"Brave men are found where brave men are honored."~Aristotle

"Generally speaking, the "Way of the Warrior" is resolute acceptance of death."~ Miyamoto Musashi

Offline Rebel

  • MAGA
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16934
  • Reputation: +1384/-215
Re: college football bowl sometimes live, sometimes dead, thread
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2012, 01:07:49 PM »
The Stanford kicker needed to find another means home aside from the team bus.  :lmao:

So does Blair Walsh.
NAMBLA is a left-wing organization.

Quote
There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site

Offline franksolich

  • Scourge of the Primitives
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58722
  • Reputation: +3102/-173
Re: college football bowl sometimes live, sometimes dead, thread
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2012, 06:35:42 PM »
Siesta Bowl
Stanford 38, Oklahoma State 41, final.

Well, we're down to just six more bowl games.

In my personal opinion though, this really sucks, all these bowl games and all these bowl games after January 1st.

Far, far better it was, when there were only four bowl games of any importance--the Cotton Bowl, the Rose Bowl, the Sugar Bowl, and the Orange Bowl--and they were all played on New Year's Day, after which sports hibernated for the rest of the year, until the last week of August.

The rarer a thing is, the more it's prized.....and appreciated; one can have too much.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline franksolich

  • Scourge of the Primitives
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58722
  • Reputation: +3102/-173
Re: college football bowl sometimes live, sometimes dead, thread
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2012, 09:55:53 PM »
Sugar Bowl
Michigan 17, Virginia Tech 9, third quarter.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline Duke Nukum

  • Assistant Chair of the Committee on Neighborhood Services
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8015
  • Reputation: +561/-202
  • O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
Re: college football bowl sometimes live, sometimes dead, thread
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2012, 10:13:12 PM »
Rose Bowl
Wisconsin 38, Oregon 45, final.

Damn.

You know, Oregon didn't deserve to win that game.

Wisconsin's been playing football since God was a boy; Wisconsin has history and tradition and a record.

When Oregon's played football for a few more generations and decades, Oregon'll get some respect.

But right now, Oregon's just another one of these transient media-created phenomenons, a flash in the pan.

At least it was a good game. Pretty much in a shootout each team has to score nearly every time and Oregon did that more.
“A man who has been through bitter experiences and travelled far enjoys even his sufferings after a time”
― Homer, The Odyssey