first of all, I am Brazilian and I live in Brazil. in my country people are very very liberal, and I always get into debates with them. and now I'm participating in a matter where the gay and I do not know where I to argue with the opponent. sorry my bad english, most try to understand the discussion that I'll paste here and help me with arguments to deal with this guy.
[thats is my arguments:
sorry, no more accepted homosexuality in any way.
Homosexuality is not common among the specimens, except when the male finds a female not to reprocriar what not and what happens to humans.
most pro-gay arguments is based on only the respect that and gays will harm no one, harms the church, is not my problem, as the state and secular.
So far so good, more must be looking the other hand, I am not only against homosseuxais, as I am against all the liberal itself.
this idea that people have to do what they think is necessary to be happy, and at least one joke, you need to have laws and a moral for a society to work for.
to suggest that gay communities and end the moral of our society, based on the principles Jewish Christians that have lasted over 2000 years and has proven to be the best period of mankind. that and which in the most advanced in a short time.
if you weigh that by changing our morals, will not affect how our society flows, and an error because the actual movement itself liberal and individualistic, people care more pros than her feelings for the parents.
for a country to succeed, he must be a united society in the interests of his country, see Japan as they worked to rebuild his country, or the U.S. that could be the world's largest economy after generations of bloodshed.
imagine how would be the history of this country, on the principle that people ask them why they are fanzi that, the same argument used by gays to justify his homosexuality.
could have been used such, arguing, for example to justify a certain person who would not fight the war, that and not think I'll be happy fighting the war, I can not see the importance of this war, may be important for homeland no more for me, respects my opinion I respect yours.
so others would see it and would start to wonder why they went to fight for their country, or because they work 14 hours a day in a factory, to save his country's economy, and society would fall apart and start desintender, and a population divided, does not produce.
soon the liberal movement itself, contributes a less committed to their duties to the nation, the simple idea of ​​wanting to question their obligations, or individualism, based on what each person does what is best for her, and not for the country meet its obejtivos itself.
not to mention the ethical codes used by gay men to judge the moral crest, are based only on theory, not yet been proven that homosexuality is genetic or if an error is a mental disorder, or just a primitive animal instinct, there cientitas pesqusando each theory.
soon you may not want to judge concepts, based on theories, and want to impose it on other people as the absolute truth.
or they could not prove whether God exists or even if not, then they can not prove that the Christian faith and a bull, on the contrary, thanks to the principles of Christian families, people understand that they have to work on behalf of society in favor of the success of the nation, not in favor of themselves. thing homosexuality as well as all the liberal, not accept, they want to end up with the concept of family and how orgaizamos our society, based on nothing. just that they want to change a society of 2000 years, upon an idea that did not even pass through imperarativo categorically that and if homosexuality became something of the routine of all, there would be a Kaus? give it to you and reflect a society where the role of man and woman are not defined, and a society that successfully goes pro?
you want to substitute something for our morale and based on theories that do not contribute to the benefit of society, is not in iper category, and has no historical example that the model works. it and what liberal society along the lines of the gay propose achieved greater success than what we obtained using Christian morality?
another thing is the simple laws of nature, if it is proved that homosexuality is a genetic mistake, the question becomes even more serious, they want to change our society based on a genetic error? there are not two things right, and a normal thing, the correct number of chromosomes, the number that makes us straight, and continue with the specimen. another thing and a wrong number of chromosomes, which means that these beings are homosseuxias (and if it can prove that they are born that way) can not be reproduced in their relations among themselves, as they may be normal, if you can not fertilize?
own according to the anatomy of the human body, which was based upon the idea of ​​man and woman, the same idea which is based on genetically correct, only heterosexual intercourse contributes to the development of the species, and there is not as support the thesis that homosexuality and correct.
that and if they can prove that homosexuality and indeed genetic, which I doubt very much, for me it is a mental disorder caused by childhood trauma. perhaps not even the gay remember, since the natural attitude of the brain and block the moment of trauma, however the aftermath of it are in many ways ...
summarizing for me oa liberal idea, which the gay part, and still very young, and to say that they can overcome and even judge the morality based in Christianity, I feel much more while not proving anything yet, not how defend a model relying on only theories, and concepts failed.
That's my opinion about homosexuality and the liberal movement itself.
and that the answer and the guy on my arguments : Ok, I read everything I found a lot of mistakes in notes, so I'm showing by shares. Many animals are so gay, even though choice of available females. This occurs for example between the dolphins, who enjoy having sex simply for pleasure, as well as the monkeys who enjoy a casual sex. This same type of behavior (homosexual), can be seen at various levels in more than 400 species.
About Judeo-Christian West. It is not the moral compass more than a century. That's how we talk about individual freedom. The U.S. and the West in general profess secularism and above, individual freedoms.
The thought that you stand above the community of an individual is incompatible with what people call a democratic state. On the other hand is compatible with a type of government known as autocracy, in which the good of society is more important than the people who compose it. It brought an idea of ​​absolutism and keep coming back, despite the modern paradigm and establish democracy.
If homosexuality is a genetic consequence, it is not a "genetic error" unless it is a genetic error be dark, or have green eyes, or be red. About being a mental disease or condition, the advice of psychology around the world have already established that is not already in the 1970s.
If the argument of fertility is released, it means that if I'm sterile I'm a freak because I relate to another person?
The liberal movement has kicked the conservatives in the last 300 years, we who break the paradigms and push social science, philosophy and society as a whole forward. Every time we do something, come the conservatives with talk that "just a theory, has no basis in reality, etc., etc." holy things up with the theory of evolution as the people come with these manias saying that God had created out of nothing.
PS: Apparently you have read that discusses Kant's categorical imperative, it is only necessary to remember that he is a philosopher of the pre-modern democracy, so many of the concepts are not just functional in modern society, although much usable.
PS2: I'm not trying to be annoying, but better punctuation and spacing, it was very tiring, it's really only one request, to facilitate discussions.
then friends, can you help me giving me good arguments for diplomatic answer it? I think conservatives around the world sometimes have to unite to face the liberal ideas.
I hope that the discussion not be translated very confusing, I had to turn to you, because in my country does not exist any conservative forum.
it continues in that forum where I'm doing the debate, before the liberal respionder my case I spent a fellow conservative words of support he says :
Cool what you said dude.
I am against homosexuality and I have no shame, they argumentation based on freedom of expression, but my freedom and not wanting to go outside and see two guys kissing, or being an idiot hitting on me, @ p # $% @ is very annoying, honestly, I think humanity has this completely f # $ $ $ from, from this charade only 80 years has been growing, in most cases the person is already created with this mentality, is already growing instructed that this is the most normal thing in the world.
I do not waste my time arguing with these idiots in favor of homosexuality, feminism or anything like that, trying to argue with such a person is like trying to explain quantum physics to a port, I have nothing better to do than to argue with someone iginorante not want to hear my arguments and just want to expose your bandwagon and try to get me to go to the same movement it.
Today there are various communities and groups that are almost brainwash people, these liberal groups looking up reminds me of an episode of Fear Itself I watched it once in the sky.
then I said to him words of support:
I can not, do not have the ability to ignore it, pretend that I'm not seeing what is happening. see the kids of 13, 14, who does not want anything in life, do not have a damn for the needs of he country . so think about the well being of himself, I can not blame them , they live in a society without principles, and if you can still call it society. people are taught to think only what they think is best for them, and not for people who are around him, and willingly or not their compatriots living in the same country, we have the same goals. to the success of the nation, do more than n and the liberal cause and beautiful (on paper), and attracts many people to it, while the conservative seems unfair and ignorant, but when we put things into practice ... the liberal model fails almost always refers to conservatives and society in order for the nation and undo the mess.
always has been, when a people passes through its difficult times, are by crises, poverty or war, they turn to the Conservatives. see the U.S., when obama was elected, he made a fine campaign, said that would save the country, privelegiar citizens and not the bankers, end wars, spoke up in sustainability.
do not think he was lying, he really believed in those ideas that look perfect on paper, but when you go by in practice ... Tai, until today, the U.S. is in Afghanistan, participated in the Libyan war, bin laden Ozama executed without trial, which is against human rights. there was a huge oil spill, deforestation continues, bankers and continue to milhionarios uxufluir of benefits over the dough. I do not think this is bad i fhink this is correctely .
the crisis continues, and on the contrary, thanks to investments in social programs, and not the economy, it only increased as the public deficit as well. ie anything he wanted to do during his tenure that should have been liberal, went as planned, and the only things that he hit, were conservative tendencies, and the American people have seen it, see the parliamentary elections and the success of tea party, they know that only conservatives, but the ignorant and retogrados will be able to save them.
and here in Brazil it keeps happening, see the Sergio Cabral, with all that speech and human rights of offenders, as always beautiful on paper, in practice ... more hiperlotados prisons, and the traffic will only increase. until he decided to take a conservative decision, even for a behind the scenes, he killed in operations in the favela traffickers. if you have any idea how much bandit died in the occupation of favela do alemão last year? was the way he found to reduce the number of dealers on the streets and reduce overcrowding in prisons. a horrible idea the eyes of some, but at least is working.
since the liberal solution to the situation was a failure again, meet alternative sentences and grant benefits to the criminal conduct, again nice on paper, in practice ... more a lot of drug dealers, some of them even famous, fled or returned to traffic after rehabilitation. and it is not for lack of opportunity, as the government, again with another great liberal idea, spend a fortune to get a job to deal with gangster who gets out of jail have a second chance (to be honest there are many people out there who have not yet was not the first). more because they want to lose your bum milhionario salary and the respect he has in the community? lose it all to be a formal contract worker, winning 600, 1000 by REAL months? and very naive to believe it ...
and so on, summing up what I say is that the liberal idea and beautiful in theory, practice and more in a fiasco, and that while conservatives are labeled as ignorant, the idea of ​​them always work in practice, because in the crunch everyone runs for them, because they know how to unite the country in a common benefit, thanks to the cultivation of values, discipline, and family, that cause people to think together and not separate, as suggests the liberal cause.
liberal guy comes back and answers my message to the other conservative, he says:
In fact, many people are rehabilitated, the paradigm is made taking into account the majority, not the minority, the penal code is 1940, ie, is very conservative, yet establishes as basic principle the rehabilitation of the offender, then I see no reason to discuss it.
Which reminds me, the crisis was caused precisely by the conservatives and their ideas of pro subprime finance cheap houses (you can read about it in newspapers of wide circulation outside the country), let us remember also that military operations were triggered by a frankly conservative government, as well as the hunt for Osama bin Laden, is that the government still functions as a body, despite the political changes carried out by each of the presidents, so it is that it is impossible to stop all policies and mistakes of the previous government, because the size of the state machine.
if they can help me to respond with arguments that answer too, will be waiting.
