redgiant (223 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Nov-21-11 09:10 AM
Original message
A lesson in police powers
The next time you're pulled over for a minor traffic violation, e.g., going a few mph over the limit, lock the doors and refuse to hand over your documents or otherwise comply with the officer's directives. In other words, peacefully occupy your car.
What do you think will happen? What do you think *should* happen?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2354616Redgiant will not be around for long. He/she has made far too many common sense posts and has used logic far too often for Hive tastes.
Notice that not a single reply from those who disagree directly addresses his point.
inademv (662 posts) Mon Nov-21-11 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. Occupiers should know better than to exceede the speed limit
oh wait, you were trying to justify the use of excessive force on people who have broken no laws weren't you.
TBMASE (311 posts) Mon Nov-21-11 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
18. Failure to follow the orders of the police is disorderly conduct
which is a violation of the law
Another one looking to join him for pizza.
redgiant (223 posts) Mon Nov-21-11 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #39
43. Here's the thing...
What can you legally occupy?
Have you been paying attention to the ACLU snippets I've posted?
Here's the thing. Even if you *believe,* an officer is giving an illegal order to move, such as from the street, you should comply unless you are willing to have force used against you or unless you are willing to gamble the cop will back down (often unlikely).
If you believe you have been subject to an unlawful order and resulting use of force, you should lawyer up and challenge in court. If the order and use of force are deemed unlawful, you will likely have all charges set aside, possibly win a settlement, and the cop might face discipline. The discipline would likely hinge on the court's determination of his belief and intent and judgement at the time of the incident.
If the order and use of force are deemed lawful, you can be penalized for the original offense and possibly other charges, such as obstruction.
Old Codger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Nov-21-11 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #29
73. If
If you have a legal right to be where you are at the time and there is no other reason to move besides the officer saying move you do not have to do so, if they arrest you for not moving you have a suit for unlawful arrest...
redgiant (223 posts) Mon Nov-21-11 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #27
53. Is this a legal order?
Ordering a group without a permit that is blocking traffic to move out of the way? Is that not a legal order?
piratefish08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Nov-21-11 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. nice try
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Nov-21-11 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
3. legalize lonnie anderson's hair
Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Nov-21-11 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
5. Welcome to DU..
I hope you enjoy your stay!
redgiant (223 posts) Mon Nov-21-11 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Why not answer the question? n/t
redgiant (223 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Nov-21-11 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. But, there *are* limits...
...and when those limits are overstepped, it can become a matter of illegal activity. Yes, that is what civil disobedience is, but a police response should not be a surprise.
From a Florida ACLU pamphlet (these are all easily googled):
"Demonstrators who engage in civil disobedience — peaceful, but unlawful, activities as a form of protest — are not protected under the First Amendment.
If you endanger others while protesting, you can be arrested. A protest that blocks vehicular or pedestrian traffic is illegal without a permit.
You do not have the right to block a building entrance or physically harass people.
The general rule is that free speech activity cannot take place on private property, including outdoor malls, without the consent of the property owner. You do not have the right to remain on private property after being told to leave by the property owner."
A common example.
A large march, especially on a major street, would likely and lawfully require a permit.
Without a permit, marchers would rightfully be required to stay on the sidewalk.
Police would have the right, even a duty, to enforce the laws and keep protesters out of the street with verbal orders, police lines, barricades, etc.
Persons violating the above would reasonably expect to be forcibly moved off the street and/or arrested.
Persons who resist moving off the street, e.g., sitting and locking arms, can be subject to force to effect arrests, including pain compliance.
inademv (662 posts) Mon Nov-21-11 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #35
40. And you would be hard pressed to find
scenarios where the Occupy protests meet ANY of those criteria for provoking police action. Furthermore, the kind of police action we've been seeing at them is wholly beyond what is warranted by the protests, especially the pepper spraying of students sitting in a courtyard.
TBMASE (311 posts) Mon Nov-21-11 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. Unless you were there you can't possibly know what the scenario was
inademv (662 posts) Mon Nov-21-11 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. That doesn't make me wrong
TBMASE (311 posts) Mon Nov-21-11 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. Doesn't make you right either
inademv (662 posts) Mon Nov-21-11 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #45
54. And in the absence of proof one way or the other
the aggressors (the cops) are in the wrong.
GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Nov-21-11 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
15. Silly question - You're comparing artichokes to aardvarks.
zalinda (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Nov-21-11 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
34. What will happen is that he will
put the ticket under the windshield wiper, and walk away, the same as if you illegally parked. He has done his duty, and filled part of his quota. The next part is up to you.
zalinda
LOL Yeah. That's exactly how it works.
backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Nov-21-11 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
38. Yep. DU has its contingent of cop-apologist quislings...
redgiant (223 posts) Mon Nov-21-11 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #38
47. As well as law-breaking apologists. n/t
Morning Dew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Nov-21-11 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
71. Where's the lesson?
How many ALERT buttons were harmed in the making of this thread?
