OK, what's with the "OWS demand" that student loan debt be cancelled?

[Freeper]

Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Mon Oct-17-11 06:39 PM
Original message
OK, what's with the "OWS demand" that student loan debt be cancelled?
   
Why is this a "forefront issue" (my words) for the OWS movement? There was a huge banner at the Occupy Milwaukee event Saturday "demanding" forgiveness of a trillion dollars in student loans, and it ended up as the "face of the protest" in the Milwaukee Journal/Sentinel.

Fodder for the right-wingers: "these people are just bums that don't want to pay their debts".

Now I understand the issue. I'm an advocate for publicly funded education - through PhD if you've got the stones. I can even see current students getting some relief from their debt.


What I can't see is this being a "top of the chart" issue for OWS. What am I missing?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2135847

You are just now learning this? 

RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Mon Oct-17-11 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. IMO it will be used greatly against OWS by the R lie and spin propaganda machine. n/t

How is it a lie or spin, when you merely point out what they say they want?

polichick (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Mon Oct-17-11 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. The thinking is, these students did everything right, going into debt to go to college...
   
...as our society tells them they should - but now they're screwed because that same society has no jobs for them. (Heard this explained on some program over the weekend.)

Maybe you should get a degree that you actually can get a job with. I'm sorry but, liberal arts and womyn's studies aren't marketable skills.

Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Mon Oct-17-11 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. You are missing that many younger persons have to go into deep, uncompromising debt....
   
...to fund their educations. Student loan debt can haunt for years, even decades.

The United States should: (1) make education a NATIONAL priority, with most education, including higher college education free; and (2) definitely should not charge interest and profit off of loans to students.

The unions won't allow the faculty to work for free though.

a la izquierda Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Mon Oct-17-11 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. I believe Saturday was a banner day for that.
   
I support it fully. I took out my loans knowing I'd have to pay them back. I mortgaged my future not to become a millionaire, but to teach college kids. But I'm exhausted with these administrations who refuse to tax the rich when the middle class public servants get screwed. One rich person's tax cut could pay back my loans. In one fall swoop. In one year.

And one person's EITC check could pay off a lot of my debt.

EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Mon Oct-17-11 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
7. Who cares what the wingnuts think. #OWS isn't running for office.

Who cares what Beth thinks?

white_wolf (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Mon Oct-17-11 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
21. I just have to ask.
   
What is wrong with forgiving all student loan debts? Hell, I think we should forgive all current debts. The concept of debt forgiveness isn't an old one, Thom Hartmann had an anthropologist on his show a while ago to talk about it. Seriously, most a lot of countries have free college education. I swear people talk about how great America is, but I'll take Europe any day.

Then get on a plane and go to Europe, oh wait you probably want us to pay for that too.

OHdem10 (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Mon Oct-17-11 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
31. Fox is doing its best to marginalize OWS. They brought this up
   
as some great new demand. Of course they went on to try
to sound as if they are the superior "elites" putting
out the word thes aare strange people. Message they
hope to ger out. Middle American you would not want
to be caught with the likes of these.

Heeheehee. To bad the people at OWS are middle America.

It's not a new demand that was in the first batch of demands, in fact the demand was to forgive all debts, not just student loans.

You would think such staunch supporters of OWS would know about the demands.

[thundley4]

I didn't graduate college and never took out loans.  It would be unfair to me to give those that do forgiveness of their debts unless I get a check for the same amount.

[longview]

I'll admit: I've daydreamed about some unknown, rich relative, or some appreciative person who recognizes my talent  and hard work paying off my student loans.  *sigh*      I ended up borrowing a little less than half of what my degree cost at a crummy, but at that time, available rate.

But I would never expect other tax payers in the U.S. to absorb that debt.

I'm not surprised that the moochers think they are owed that much.  Poor little things, having had to go to our great American colleges.  The ones that people from other countries really sacrifice to be able to attend. 

[thundley4]

I'm not surprised that the moochers think they are owed that much.  Poor little things, having had to go to our great American colleges.  The ones that people from other countries really sacrifice to be able to attend. 

Funny thing is, the lefties are trying to make it easier for illegal immigrants to go to college, and for taxpayers to foot the bill.  They are too stooooopid to realize that this will just drive the costs of college tuition even higher.

[DefiantSix]

It took me 8 years to do my engineering degree.  It took that long because I was simultaneously working as a draftsman in the field and I paid for the courses out of my own pocket.  No loans.  No grants.  Just the fruit of the sweat of my brow. 

You ought to hear the walls of my home ring with laughter whenever I read the whiny sob stories of these grabasses. 

[Celtic Rose]

I didn't graduate college and never took out loans.  It would be unfair to me to give those that do forgiveness of their debts unless I get a check for the same amount.

  at the idea of DUmmies being concerned about what is fair. 

[BEG]

It took us 10 years to pay off my husband's student loans. I don't think you are going to get much sympathy from the normal people who have paid their student loans.  Keep demanding your free shit DUmmies.

[jukin]

The OWemeS should be protesting against Big Education and the fact the government didn't protect them from these terrible con men that convinced so many youg people that a BA degree was a ticket to 100k/year job out of college.

What does a degree in Angry Asian Lesbian Studies qualify you for?

Insert own joke here.

[seahorse513]

What gets me that nobody twisted their arms to go to college.. It is always a good idea to either go to college/university, the military, or trade school to get some sort of skill(with a 2nd backup) that will help you enter the job world with confidence to enter the field of choice...
This is not rocket science, this is common sense!!!!....

[ExGeeEye]

What does a degree in Angry Asian Lesbian Studies qualify you for?

The lead role in "Kill Bill Vol. III: Yubari's Revenge"

[miskie]

What's with the "OWS demand" that student loan debt be canceled?

- Unemployed students are the easiest way to inflate the numbers at the protests. The demand is a carrot to get them there, even though the organizers know it will never be fulfilled.

The irony is that this strategy is helping to insure that Obama loses one of the most important segments of his base. Not to the GOP, but to a 3rd party or nobody at all.

[Aristotelian]

white_wolf

Seriously, most a lot of countries have free college education. I swear people talk about how great America is, but I'll take Europe any day.

Leaving aside the construction 'most a lot', does the DUmmy realise that most European countries are introducting tuition fees and moving away from pure public funding of higher education? When even Germany and France have tuition fees (heavily subsidised at the moment) it's pretty clear which way the wind's going...

[Traveshamockery]

True story:  My soon to be daughter-in-law and her sister attended a private Catholic university somewhere in Northern Indiana.  I'm sure most of you can figure out which one that would be.  They both received scholarships and some grants but for the most part took out student loans to go to college there. 

My DIL's sister just graduated from said Catholic university this spring with a gazillion $$$ in student loans.  Last year, she had a young lady for a roommate, an illegal alien, who was going to said college for free.  No tuition, no books to pay for, and a stipend for rent. 

We've never discussed it but I think she is probably a liberal.  I would say she received her greatest lesson in how this country operates just by having this roommate for a year. 

[Karin]

does the DUmmy realise that most European countries are introducting tuition fees and moving away from pure public funding of higher education?

But if you were to ask him, White Wolf would only reply "You have obviously not read enough Marx and Engels, and until you do, and take some courses, I cannot speak to you, as you have no idea what you're talking about.  Tuition simply doesn't exist in Europe.  Now I'm ignoring you." 

[FlaGator]

At least the 2nd poster was right. Reading that allows a sane person to draw the conclusion that they are a bunch of freeloaders who have no problem running up debt and look to cheat their creditors out of the money they agreed to pay back.

[Karin]

Cid tells White Wolf off:

Cid_B (1000+ posts)      Mon Oct-17-11 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #68
80. Oh really?
 You can just wander into a University in Germany and say "I'm here, teach and support me?"

It shows your complete ignorance on the subject.

The schools are state supported yes, but only the brightest get in and they start getting sorted around age 8. Can you imagine this in the US? I sure as hell can't.

Top 10% or so end up at the Gymansium (Smart kid high school) and are generally Uni bound.

Another example of ignorance coupled with how you want things to be. It's like Canada, Europe and Venezuala are all these magical paradises with unicorns and free stuff for everyone. The reality, on the ground, is far different.

Then, further down, there's this:

gulliver  (1000+ posts)        Mon Oct-17-11 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
44. Successful students should have their loans forgiven, IMO.
 You're right that it will sound like people demanding charity though.

I would like to see graduation incentivized. Student loan payments should be a refundable tax credit for graduates. The government gets back its money ten times over by getting more people to pursue higher education and graduate...to say nothing of increasing our country's competitiveness.

Unsuccessful students should have their loans paid off by a special, ruinous tax on for-profit colleges.

  Wait, what?   

More DUmmie economics:

girl gone mad (1000+ posts)        Mon Oct-17-11 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #103
107. We wouldn't even need to make cuts, really.
 It's just marking off entries in a book (on a computer, technically).

So someone who went to college but can't find gainful employment would owe less on their loan, for example. More money would stay in the economy since paying off these debts essentially destroys money. This would be a decent stimulus.

It's hard to tell with their numbering system, but I think someone called her dumb for that. 

[Erasmus]

Fodder for the right-wingers: "these people are just bums that don't want to pay their debts".

Because this is the truth.  Rush had some survey results of the OWS crowd and came to the conclusion that since only 15% of the protesters were unemployed, they must be protesting the fact that they HAVE to work, lol.

[DumbAss Tanker]

gulliver  (1000+ posts)        Mon Oct-17-11 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
44. Successful students should have their loans forgiven, IMO.
 You're right that it will sound like people demanding charity though.

I would like to see graduation incentivized. Student loan payments should be a refundable tax credit for graduates. The government gets back its money ten times over by getting more people to pursue higher education and graduate...to say nothing of increasing our country's competitiveness.

Unsuccessful students should have their loans paid off by a special, ruinous tax on for-profit colleges.

This pisses me off on a couple of levels.  One, the really 'successful' students are the ones who need their loans paid off the least, as they are by and large the ones who 'successfully' enter the workforce, and obtain 'successful jobs.'

As far as the for-profit colleges go, they are a favorite target of the Libs and there are some bad actors who deserve to be discredited, but the one for which my spouse works as a part-time instructor has been through the oversight and reporting wringer on this already, and the ugly truth the Congresspukes and Libs won't own is that while their placement rate in the careers for which they train students may be somewhere in the 40 percents within x-many months of completion, the publicly-funded colleges AREN'T ANY HIGHER in an apples-to-apples comparison of similar career training programs.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Successful students should have their loans forgiven,

Successful students don't need debt fogiveness because they are SUCCESSFUL enough to provide enough high-valued goods and services to afford to pay back their loans.

Unsuccessful students should have their loans paid off by a special, ruinous tax on for-profit colleges.

And once you ruin those for-profit colleges what will you use as a revenue stream?

[tanstaafl]

I didn't graduate college and never took out loans.  It would be unfair to me to give those that do forgiveness of their debts unless I get a check for the same amount.

Like Thundley, I too never went to college. But, I saved the cost of a college education and invested it in the crappy stock market of 1973 through 1977, using my brother's bitching about his cost per credit hour as the basis of my weekly savings.

Consequently, I marshalled a quick mind, advanced mechanical aptitude and a relish to learn new things electrical and construct-wise into a career that pays me roughly three times that of my college educated brother's income and has allowed me to accumulate a multimillion dollar nest egg through prudent and efficient investment strategies.

Which I have "egg"-zackly "zero" intention of sharing any of it with some smelly occupiers. Them's my eggs and I'll break 'em all, first.

[Karin]

Congrats to you!  That's fantastic! 

[BEG]

DUmmies, you want to know how normal people view your "movement"?  Watch this video:

[youtube=425,350]MxupmU4cJOE[/youtube]

[BlueStateSaint]

Milady, I don't have speakers.  What was the ditz with the megaphone saying?

[Chris_]

WTF?  I can't get past the first line.  What's with the repeating?

Best YouTube comment:

"I am not a mindless robot"

(repeated) "I am not a mindless robot"

[BEG]

Milady, I don't have speakers.  What was the ditz with the megaphone saying?

Oh geez, I don't know if I could explain. She had a dream of dead people on her lawn but she doesn't have a lawn and someone stopped in their car to tell her to get a job but she forgot to tell them that she loved them.

For every third word or so she said her fellow protesters repeated her. As in, "girl: last night protesters: last night, girl: I had a dream protesters: I had a dream, girl: on my lawn protesters: on my lawn...." and it went on and on and on.

Seriously, crazy ass people.