OK, tell me again why socialism is a bad thing

[Freeper]

Now is our chance to do something nice for the primitives, they complain that we do nothing, but stalk them and mock them, we can help this primitive out by answering his question.

LuckyTheDog (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Mon Oct-03-11 06:09 PM
Original message
OK, tell me again why socialism is a bad thing   Updated at 9:47 AM
   
I keep forgetting why capitalism is superior.

Anybody?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2049152

Why socialism is bad:
1: Socialism is based on government sponsored theft of property, labor, or wealth of a private citizen.
2: Under socialism people will not want to work as hard to produce anything, since what they produce will be taken from them.

Why capitalism is better:
1: When you work hard to produce something, or invest your own resources into producing something, you profit from it.
2: Under capitalism, people tend to work hard and to continue to work hard in order to get enjoyment out of the fruits of your labor.

Why liberals hate capitalism:
1: Under capitalism you have to do something or provide something in order to make a profit. In other words work.
2: If you don't produce something, or work, then you do not receive the same benefits that someone who works gets.

How or hybrid socialist and capitalist system works:
1: If you work hard, take care of yourself, and live responsibly, you may not have all the new gadgets and toys out there, like I Phones, Big screen TVs, 4 gazillion channels on cable, etc.
2: If you don't work, you probably have the latest I Phone, big screen TV, cable and so forth.
3: Those who work are forced to pay for those who don't work, and instead of the non working folks being grateful for our help, they stamp their feet and demand more more more, and then they call us greedy for not wanting to pay more.

[jukin]

Because this is what communism brought us in the 20th centruy.

The worst genocides of the 20th Century
Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 49-78,000,000
Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1932-39) 23,000,000 (the purges plus Ukraine's famine)
Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1939-1945) 12,000,000 (concentration camps and civilians WWII)
Hideki Tojo (Japan, 1941-44) 5,000,000 (civilians in WWII)
Ismail Enver (Turkey, 1915-20) 1,200,000 Armenians (1915) + 350,000 Greek Pontians and 480,000 Anatolian Greeks (1916-22) + 500,000 Assyrians (1915-20)
Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) 1,700,000
Kim Il Sung (North Korea, 1948-94) 1.6 million (purges and concentration camps)
Menghistu (Ethiopia, 1975-78) 1,500,000
Yakubu Gowon (Biafra, 1967-1970) 1,000,000
Leonid Brezhnev (Afghanistan, 1979-1982) 900,000

As this communist once said:
"The goal of socialism is communism."
Vladimir Lenin

As this wise man that saved democracy in the 20th century said:
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill


And that dear DUchebag is why at it's heart socialism is evil.

[shadeaux]

I'll be simple.

I don't want to be forced to share anything my family worked hard for. No one shared with us, no one gave us anything.  Stand in line like we did or forget it cheaters.

They want to jump the line and skip the years.  I don't think so DUmmy.

I am being nice.   

[JohnnyReb]

In the words of my uneducated DUmb old daddy ...."They penalize those that try so they can subsidize those that won't try."....my old daddy may have been uneducated but he was far from DUmb.

[Ballygrl]

Socialism has killed over 90 million people around the world, isn't that enough reason?

[Ballygrl]

Because this is what communism brought us in the 20th centruy.

The worst genocides of the 20th Century
Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 49-78,000,000
Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1932-39) 23,000,000 (the purges plus Ukraine's famine)
Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1939-1945) 12,000,000 (concentration camps and civilians WWII)
Hideki Tojo (Japan, 1941-44) 5,000,000 (civilians in WWII)
Ismail Enver (Turkey, 1915-20) 1,200,000 Armenians (1915) + 350,000 Greek Pontians and 480,000 Anatolian Greeks (1916-22) + 500,000 Assyrians (1915-20)
Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) 1,700,000
Kim Il Sung (North Korea, 1948-94) 1.6 million (purges and concentration camps)
Menghistu (Ethiopia, 1975-78) 1,500,000
Yakubu Gowon (Biafra, 1967-1970) 1,000,000
Leonid Brezhnev (Afghanistan, 1979-1982) 900,000

As this communist once said:
"The goal of socialism is communism."
Vladimir Lenin

As this wise man that saved democracy in the 20th century said:
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill


And that dear DUchebag is why at it's heart socialism is evil.

Thank You! that list shows even more than my post did, much more.

[GOBUCKS]

Socialism has killed over 90 million people around the world, isn't that enough reason?

All Bush's fault.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

100 million broken eggs and not 1 goddam omelet.

[Karin]

I rowed over, and there was an interesting exchange. 

bluestate10  (1000+ posts)     Mon Oct-03-11 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #34
61. You can't separate the two. Socialism requires that a small group of
 people make decisions while the general population ratify them. The problem is that the very power the small group of people gain ultimately corrupts some, if not all of them. Eventually one side of the power elite eliminates the other side of the power elite and seize total control.

white_wolf (1000+ posts)        Mon Oct-03-11 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. You are mistaken.
 Socialism vests power in the working class. Everyone who works would have access to the full fruit of their labors and not have the majority of it stolen by a small class of parasites. Research the history of the Paris Commune. That was the first socialist revolution and Engels said it was the dictatorship of the proletariat. 

Cats Against Frist (1000+ posts)        Mon Oct-03-11 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #63
73. Seriously?
 That could only be predicated up on the condition that everyone agreed that we all want to be poor-ish and bohemian and austere and average.

And most people of the United States of America do not want that, thank jeebus.

white_wolf (1000+ posts)        Mon Oct-03-11 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #73
77. No. Socialism would allow more people to reach their full potential than capitalism can.
 Under Capitalism the vast majority are forced into wage slavery in order to prop up a small class of parasites. The only reason the capitalists excel as you put it, is because they are the only ones who have time to do anything other than work to meet the basic necessities of life. To quote Engels at the grave of Marx:  

 

Cats Against Frist (1000+ posts)        Mon Oct-03-11 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. There is no "potential" in a socialist society
 Everyone is equal. There is nothing to strive for. Being better at something is shameful. Having more than someone else, earning more by being excellent is shameful. There's no self, no excellence -- there's only the collective and the prevailing level of the collective.

white_wolf (1000+ posts)        Mon Oct-03-11 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #78
81. I'm done with this. You clearly have no clue what you are talking about.
 Go read a few books then come back. Here's a couple of suggestions: The Communist Manifesto, Why Marx Was Right by Terry Eagleton, The Principles of Communism by Frederick Engels. 

I'm done with this, too.  I want to bring HUAC back.  I want you off of these shores. 

Cats Against Frist (1000+ posts)        Mon Oct-03-11 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #81
82. I've read Engels, I've read Marx, I've read Parenti, Chomsky, Keynes, Kant,
 Rousseau, Plato, Niemeyer, Spooner, Faludi, Wolfe, Wollstencraft, Voltaire, Locke, Hobbes, Adorno, Friedman, Heidegger, Schopenhauer, Spinoza, Smith, Rand, Takaki, Dawkins, Freakenomics and just about everybody in between. I have a degree in Political Science and a masters in lit theory.

white_wolf (1000+ posts)        Mon Oct-03-11 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #82
84. Your views on socialism are the same things I've heard on right-wing hate radio.
 So clearly you don't know very much about that topic.

You're not exactly shining on this thread, commie whitewolf.  God I hate you. 

Cats Against Frist (1000+ posts)        Mon Oct-03-11 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #84
90. Well,
 Since I used to BE a socialist, and a report for the Socialistik Forum and a volunteer for Landsorganisation, the largest trade union in Sweden, and my political science degree specialization is in socialism in Latin America, I'm going to say you're wrong about that, too.

What you would be right about, however, is that, like a former smoker, I am vehemently opposed to what I used to be.

Cats Against Frist (1000+ posts)        Mon Oct-03-11 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #59
67. I lived in Sweden
 My boyfriend did not get to go to college because his family wasn't on the college track. All of those things I wrote about are the dirty little secrets that they don't want you to know about. Besides, they're all hypocrites, too. All the social justice stuff and they're a bunch of first-world pigs like the rest of us...
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Cats Against Frist (1000+ posts)        Mon Oct-03-11 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. And they cannot stand the Muslims n/t

     uh oh. 

white_wolf (1000+ posts)        Mon Oct-03-11 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #89
92. The USSR launched the first satellite I'd say that's a techinoglai achievement.

  That's just funny.  Too much vodka, Komrade. 

And DefendandProtect shows up, inarticulate as ever, saying over and over and over again "capitalism is over."

[Ballygrl]

white_wolf (1000+ posts)        Mon Oct-03-11 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #78
81. I'm done with this. You clearly have no clue what you are talking about.
 Go read a few books then come back. Here's a couple of suggestions: The Communist Manifesto, Why Marx Was Right by Terry Eagleton, The Principles of Communism by Frederick Engels.

Instead of reading about what you view as utopia, why not ask someone who actually lived under it what their opinion would be?

[FreeBorn]

Instead of reading about what you view as utopia, why not ask someone who actually lived under it what their opinion would be?

Because they are hard to find being that most of them are dead.

[USA4ME]

Instead of reading about what you view as utopia, why not ask someone who actually lived under it what their opinion would be?

Agreed.

I did financing for some home builders in my area in the mid-90's that were from Belarus.  Hard workers, very conscience about the product they put out.  But they were that way because their work meant something here, whereas in the USSR if their work was sub-par it didn't matter, they were no worse off.  The stories they told about their life in the USSR would send shivers down your back.

The primitives would have us believe that the USSR was not an example of what "true socialism" would be like, but I'm not willing to risk that it won't turn out that way.

.

[Karin]

Instead of reading about what you view as utopia, why not ask someone who actually lived under it what their opinion would be?

Because White wolf would then only say "You don't know what you're talking about!  You're obviously ignorant and have no understanding of the system!  Go read some books and take some classes and then get back to me!  I'm not speaking to you! 

His stupidity and willful ignorance were on full display on that thread.  A true useful idiot, he'd be the first against the wall when it became obvious he's simply a useless idiot. 

[Wineslob]

Once again living proof that Liberalism (or almost any "ism") is a mental disorder.

DUmmies, it has NEVER "worked". But you dolts go ahead and keep "hope" alive.

[jukin]

DUmbass white_wolf is what Lenin would call an "Useful idiot" and accordingly would be one of the first killed (no loss).  I was in the USSR twice. Once in 1985 and once in 1988. It was worse than the stories you have heard. There were long lines for empty produce stores. The people would drink cheap vodka because the water would make you sick. There was general depression and hopelessness among the populace. The only people that had any kind of livable existence were those in the government (sounding familiar) and that was fare less than any poor person(except homeless) in the western world. The only way to keep people was through violence. This is the inevitable end of a socialist utopia.

Socialism ends with a gun.
Communism starts with a gun.


Cats Against Frist knows what they are talking about.

[Karin]

Fool Count (688 posts)      Mon Oct-03-11 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
74. Doubt all you want, but having lived in both I would take
 the USSR in 1980th over the present day USA in a heartbeat. I am not going to go into extended discussions of comparative merits of the two
system here. Much of it would be a matter of personal preference anyhow. Just saying that it is not so cut and dry as capitalist apologists led
most people to believe. I sincerely enjoyed my life in the USSR much better than in the US. Just a personal opinion of one person, make what
you want of it.

He's not going to go into it.  He was a protected class of some sort, or he's lying. 

[FreeBorn]

It seems there is no shortage of useful idiots on the left who are yearning to be a part of the socialist lemming legion. The most intellectual of these idiots insist that socialism has never been properly done right and of course this time will be different, if only the rest of us will go along we'll see how bloody wonderful it all will be. We just don't get it, we fail to see the genius that is Barack 0bama!

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E53jw0ezC-o[/youtube]

I would counter that it is them who can't see where this is going, the same place it has in the past.

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s[/youtube]

Why do we need a civilian national security force? What national security objectives? Has he ever stated what those were? No, he has not. He is simply selling the idea that there needs to be a rank and file answerable to the new ideology, apart from and not subject to the control of the existing military and civil law. Gee, where have we heard this meme before? "Sieg heil" ring a bell? 0bama is taking a page directly from Hitler's Nazi playbook. Hitler was roundly despised by the German military establishment and he knew he could not get them on board with him so he had to circumvent the establishment. He took over the labor unions and transformed them into a force under one banner, his banner. He created the S.A. brownshirts out of them to be part of the N.S.D.A.P., or "Nazi" party.
National Sozialistiche Deutsche Arbeiter Partei, National Socialist German Worker's Party.
Are we following the bouncing ball here, boys and girls?

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3UbvU6oio0[/youtube]

Alas, we just don't get it. We don't see the extraordinary raw vision of this man. We don't understand that this time true socialism will finally be achieved and everything will be just so wonderful in every way, ignorant fools that we are.


Berlin, 1945

[redwhit]

Instead of reading about what you view as utopia, why not ask someone who actually lived under it what their opinion would be?

So long as the idea is kept in books and out of reality, it's easier to say "You didn't do it right!" when socialism fails again.

Rewriting history is always easier than facing reality.

[JohnnyReb]

He's not going to go into it.  He was a protected class of some sort, or he's lying. 

Mommie and daddy sent him black market currency.....american dollars.

...and tell the bastard that Cuba and North Korea still have openings for DUmmies.

[Skul]

I saw a major beat-down of a feral dog, by a cat.
It's gonna take a hydraulic come-along to drag his tail out from under him.

[chitownchica]

DUmbass white_wolf is in college.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x342164

white_wolf (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Feb-03-11 05:52 PM
Original message
How to get into politics?
   
Once I get out of school I would really like to go into politics because I really do think I can make a difference in the way this country works and at the very least it would be another voice up against the corporations and their allies in congress.The congressmen that really inspired me are Bernie Sanders,Alan Grayson(God it sucks that he got money-bombed, and Anthony Wiener because damn if his rant against the GOP for not supporting health care for 911 responders wasn't the most awesome thing ever. I guess my question is to anyone who has knowledge/experience in this field where should I start? I mean aside from the whole make sure you have a lot of money which may totally **** up my oh so brilliant plan. If this thread doesn't belong here then feel free to move/delete whichever is appropriate.

[delilahmused]

Uh, the Paris Commune lasted about two months. You need a better example.

Cindie

[GOBUCKS]

Well, DUmmy white_wolf, you have a problem. It was once possible to be elected to some offices while being a raving moonbat with learning disabilities. Our current vice president, and many senior members of congess, bear witness to that.

Today, that's far, far more difficult, unless you're black, running before a black electorate. In that case, communist leanings and low IQ are prerequisites.

Since you're a DUmp democrat, chances are you meet the dullard commie requirements, but you're almost certainly a white kid who has never had to earn a single thing in his life. That pretty much rules out becoming a latter-day Sheila Jackson Lee.

So, your chance at elective office is near zero. Your best bet at politics is to become one of those letter-to-the-editor nuts, like that bodybuilding whackjob woman from Texas, who posts about her insanity in the DUmp's loony bin forum. She asks the other moonbats in GD to edit a letters to her tiny local newspaper nearly every week when she's not institutionalized, and brags if she gets one printed. I think that's your future in politics.

[Karin]

We have one of those in our town!  His name is Wayne C. Pride, and they're forever printing his lunatic rantings.  They do it for entertainment services, of course.  It's always a different topic, he is no one-issue whacko, and they're utterly irrelevant to the current events.  Funny stuff. 

[movie buff]

A few other points that the op on this thread didn't make:
1. Socialism fails to take into account that basic human ills such as greed, laziness, and envy will ALWAYS be a part of human nature, and cannot be eliminated through government policies the way Socialists believe it will. As such, those conditions still exist in everyone, especially those in government, and people will continue to act solely in their own best interests rather than the best interests of "The people"/ "The workers". This brings me to my next point:
2. (This has ALWAYS been a problem with Socialism/ Communism) It allows the federal government to have WAY too much unchecked power, and as history has shown time and again with the laundry list of Socialist/ Communist dictators, that much unchecked power can easily corrupt. Our current system has its flaws, but at least its system of checks and balances between the three branches of government keeps any one of the branches from becoming too powerful.
3. Socialists claim that under their system, there will no longer be any unfair "Class" distinctions. This, however, is a lie. Again based on what history shows, there are indeed different social classes in Socialist/ Communist countries, but rather than being based on how much money one has, they tend to be based on how well- connected one is to the government. That's just as bad.
4. As a Christian and in fact an aspiring minister, why would I put my support behind a system under which tens of millions of my brothers and sisters in Christ have in the past been persecuted, imprisoned, tortured, and executed for refusing to convert to Atheism? It would be like a Jew supporting Nazism.